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Finish a mesechta, invite some friends, make a siyum and have a meat barbecue. Not only muttar – but encouraged (certainly if you are chasidic inclined). Horiyos is only 12 and a bit daf.
Yes people should be fighting to daven at the Amud even when they are not aveilim.
When Rav Koppelman, Rav Lefkowitz and Rav Stein Zichronom Livrocha were niftar within days of each other a few weeks ago, some took it as a sign that things are not right. Others brushed it off as all three were over 100 years old.
Could this latest tragedy, as well as being a general wake up call be a direct rebuttal to the latter response?
Davening for the Amud and saying Kaddish is a Huge Zchus. That’s why aveilim are given the job so that they can provide the merit for the deceased.
Leiderleider – don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater. Not all statistics are flawed (only 35.7% are).
As I pointed out – if the headline would have read : ‘Family beats 1 in 133,225 odds” that would have been a perfectly correct statistic (allowing for very slight seasonal fluctuations)
The chances of winning the lotto twice are tiny. But having won it once – you’re half way there already! Now you’re chance of winning it again are the same as everybody.
I can only try:
You’re right but still given the parents shared their birthday before the baby was born, the correct headline should have been ‘Family (not baby) beats 133,225 to 1 odds’ the Baby merely beat a puny 365/1 odds.
This article reminds me of the story of a guy who always wore his hat on backwards when he went on a plane. When he was asked why he replied “Well the odds of there being a bomb on the plane is estimated at 1 million to 1. What do you think are the odds of there being a bomb on a plane with a passenger who’s hat is on backwards?”
ergo
amazing how this thread has suddenly turned to a discussion about different foods.
Zachessin and cantankerous – as believing Jews we hold that life appeared on Earth not as the result of any ‘likelihood’ of it doing so spontaneously with the right ingredients but as an act of creation by G-d.
Therefore I would say on the contrary – it is more UNLIKELY that life as we know it exists on other planets.
What you’ve stated about life forming quickly and inevitably with the right ingredients is factually incorrect. No scientist to date, even with all the ingredients that are known to form living cells, has come even close to creating even the most simple single-celled organism.
They have even tried taking a live single cell, emptying its contents, and then putting it back together. Totally unsuccessful. Life is more than the sum of its physical aspects.
NaturalSelection: The Torah of Seichel cannot be an ultimate guide to right and wrong without a G-d given Torah. If there is no guide from a higher moral authority ch’v then no concept of right or wrong exists in a true sense . The entire universe including humanity is then just a bunch of atoms interacting meaninglessly. So if extra-terrestrial beings can make moral choices, those would have to be based on the only moral guide that truly exists – the Torah, which they won’t have on another planet.
Naturalselection: There is another thread that discusses this at length.
Some sources (Or Hashem of Rabenu Kraskas) indicate the possibility of life on other worlds but not intelligent life capable of moral choices as that would pose a problem with there being only one Torah
bpt – brilliant. and now have you got a suggestion for the million levels in-between?
Currently it’s a land of extremes something a lot of people are not geared up to.
LSH – no need to look round at your mod-cons to have these feelings. Take a breath of air. Thousands of miracles took place to allow the oxygen in it to reach your cells and nourish them.
oomis – that is PRECISELY the point I was making. Our Imahos wore nose-rings yet today that would be considered abhorrent for a frum girl. Tzniyus in the context of what is outlandish and attention-seeking is dependent on the culture of the time and place.
Naturalselection – it’s a question I’ve also had. I haven’t seen this answer anywhere but I think the commandment to wipe out Amalek is not that we should forget Amalek (on the contrary the Torah says we must not forget) – like you said we must remember the wicked as a lesson.
Rather the mitzva is to wipe out Amalek’s physical and ideological remnants; whether descendants who embody Amalek’s evil or his ideology – that of denial of G-d’s providence ch’v)
mdd – no not just funny – but also untzniusdik. Tznius is about not trying to overly attract attention and trying to be different, very noticed. If a frum Jewish girl starts wearing a nose-ring it’s a huge statement about how she perceives herself and how she would like to be perceived. It’s screaming – ‘Look at me – I don’t care about what’s normal, I’ll wear/do what I like, I’ll express my individuality in a HUGE way and everybody will notice’
There’s a way to express individuality without screaming for attention. Its a subtlety that has sadly been getting lost over the years since the 60’s.
oomis – our imahos wore nose-rings too – but that would now be untzniusdik as it is outlandish.
I think we can sum up and say Tznius is about 2 issues (that in essence are one)
1) Covering up those areas that are usually covered (in decent societies) some of which the Torah classifies as Ervah and/or cause improper thoughts. And covering them up in a non-provocative way.
2) Not attracting undue attention by by the way you act, talk or dress. This is much more subjective and depends on the minhag of the town and generation.
Any thoughts on that summary?
Interesting gavra – who is your RY?
I am surprised if it could be classified as bal tosif. Rabbi Falk is not adding mitzvos to the Torah nor adding details to a particular mitzva.
Whether you agree with him or not, he is just putting forward his interpretation of ‘Hatzea Leches’ and assessing in a practical way what modes of dress can cause improper thoughts and attract undue attention.
I would venture to say that to classify that as bal tosif is actually being ‘ Megaleh Ponim Batorah Shelo Kehalacha’ a common pitfall when exaggeratedly disagreeing with someone else’s views.
mdd – would you say the same for very long skirts that attract attention and would make people look twice/turn their head. Is that also tzniusdik?
Wolf – ok so Acher’s Tshuva may have not been accepted but he did attain atonement. The point I had been trying to make still stands: No Jew is ever beyond hope completely.
So please no more ‘Yimach Shmo’s and suchlike. If Aron was sane then his act was pure evil (and in the time of Chazal with witnesses, Sanhedrin etc. he would be executed). But he’s still a Jew.
He is obligated to perform mitzvos like any Jew.
He can marry a Jewish woman like any Jew.
If he is a Kohen then his sons can serve in the Beis Hamikdosh.
And if he does proper Teshuva – then we are commanded to love him like any Jew.
Everything else is between him and G-d.
yes the gemora asks that very question – (where were we commanded?) answers the gemara – ‘ Lo sosur.
Oomis – Kidnapping is not a capital crime unless the victim is sold as a slave.
mikehall – when you do speak to a Rav – ask him about Nevuzeradan who achieved Tshuva after butchering over 14,000 innocents ( Sanhedrin 96b).
Droid, yes. Murderers are not excluded from Teshuva as far as I recall. I am sure it won’t come easy but possible? Yes. Kayin comes to mind. Nevuzeradan even more so. He killed over 14,000 innocent people – then did Tshuva (I’m sure it was no easy ride) and became a Ger Tzedek. (Sanhedrin 96b).
Again don’t get me wrong. The enormity and depravity of what Aron did is not in any way lessened. A murderer is a murderer and without Tshuva he is the worst of the worst. It still is just a huge unfathomable kindness of Hashem that no matter how low, how wicked, how depraved a person has become – He is still our Father and with the necessary true effort anybody can return. This is stated many times in Chazal, Rambam, Sharei Tshuva of Rabenu Yonah and countless other seforim. What Tikunim are necessary I don’t know – but a lost case? Chas Veshalom. L’val yidach mimenu nidach.
mikehall12382: The expression ‘Yimach Shmo’ which means ‘ may his name be wiped out’ I have heard is not meant to be applied to any Jew however wicked he is. Please see the other thread ‘ The evil monster is still a Jew’ for discussion of this and a source too.’
It is a basic tenet of Judaism (and there are also scores of examples in Jewish history and literature) that ANY evildoer can repent and achieve atonement for his sins however many or degraded they are. It is not a quick and easy fix – but it is achievable. No Jewish soul is outcast entirely.
or maybe he didn’t even try to kill him. It could have been manslaughter. Everyone’s assuming that he intended to kill him. I think the horror of the fact that he dismembered him has painted him automatically as a crazy killer when it may not be the case.
maybe he didnt try to kill him. maybe its a case of manslaughter not murder.
yes torahlife but first it needs to be established if he is an achzar or a shoita
That’s because Madoff was not insane – just (it would seem) very greedy. I would venture to say that Aron is probably insane.
Has anyone thought that maybe he was possessed by a dybbuk? Cases of possession by a dybbuk are well documented. There is the famous story with the Chafetz Chaim and a dybbuk – that was only circa 100 years ago,
Please don’t get me wrong – if Aron was of sound mind and responsible for his actions then he is the epitome of evil and I would be happy to carry out justice and put him to death myself if so paskened by a Sanhedrin.
Newhere – Yimach Shmo expresses a hope that no trace or memory him should remain. That his existence be totally obliterated.
That is simply inconsistent with the eternity of Olom Haba.
newhere – the meaning of the words ‘yimach shmo’ contradicts the fact that he merits Olom Haba. Every Jew apart from some exceptions (and a murderer is not one of them) merits Olom Haba eventually. This is also clearly stated in the mishna in Perek 6 of Sanhedrin.
Similarly re Ben Gurion: I heard b’shem the Chazon Ish that he too will merit a portion in Olom Haba (again I suppose eventually) for exempting yeshiva bochurim from the army. This too would contradict the wish of ‘yimach shmo’
The Torah position is very clear with people who commit capital offences.
Justice needs to be served in a moral society. We have no ability or right to forgive him – that is between him and G-d. On the contrary, putting him to death is part of his atonement process.
However, there are also rules as to how he is to be treated. He is still a Jew and he may not be degraded. Before being put to death he is told to repent and reminded that if he does so he STILL MERITS A PORTION IN OLOM HABA.
Remember, Kayin killed Hevel in cold blood and his Tshuvah was accepted.
Also to one of the previous posters who used the word ‘Yimach Shmo’ about Aron. I once heard that however low a Jew has sunk, (and I think Aron, if he is sane has hit the bottom) those words are never allowed to be used about Jews aside for two individuals who were Meshichei Sheker (one was Shabsai Zvi, the other is probably not a good idea to post on a public forum)
For some help with something, I once had to call someone considered a ‘top’ boy who had a Yeshivish CV like no other, married a ‘top’ girl; in short that shidduch had money, looks, lamdonus, yichus – a marriage made in Yeshivish heaven.
Not quite up to par with that type of crowd, up there with the Yeshiva elite, the response I got; no the mere attention afforded to me was that like a piece of chewing gum stuck on someone’s shoe can expect.
Rabbi Yehoshua Ben Levi said after coming back from a visit to Heaven.
“I saw an upside-down world. The ones on top were at the bottom and the ones at the bottom were at the top.”
skiaddict: I’d be very interested if there was a single reliable source for that claim. Sounds like an old wives’ tale. (Are you an old wife?) Anyway, lions don’t eat wolves but even if they did – why can’t our neshomos stand listening to it?
Basket of Radishes:
Simply to say ‘Don’t worry G-d made it all’ dismissively brushes aside the valid concern sammyp had. Music is very powerful way of bringing out emotions and feelings. It can uplift, make you more spiritual and it can also conversely bring to the surface the animal/unrefined element of any person.
It all depends on the type of music. Rock, Jazz, Heavy Metal etc. may be enjoyable but their essence is to bring out the lower side of us. Studies have shown a causation link between the emergence of Rock’n’roll and the permissiveness that swept through the sixties.
So yes, G-d made it all but G-d made lots of things that we as a holy nation have to keep away from. Obvious examples are the various forbidden food like pork, shrimp and forbidden relationships.
But its not only things expressly forbidden. We are commanded to be holy, closer to G-d, to accentuate our spiritual rather than physical side (see the famous commentary of Ramban at the beginning of Parshas Kedoshim). That means not indulging in pleasure and being engrossed in its pursuit for its own sake (a difficult one), and keeping a distance from things that while technically permitted (and yes, created by G-d), push us away from Him.
Even with valid reasons to publicise the giving of tzedaka, I think the business with plaques, ceremonies, and sponsorships etc. is often very overdone. Unfortunately very often there is real chanifa (insincere flattery), overstated and sometimes even undeserving titles bestowed on the benefactor (Rodef Tzedaka Vachesed, Moreinu Harav…)
An institution should be able to publicly express Hakoras Hatov without breaching the spirit of the exhortation expressed by the Navi Michah- (last week’s Haftorah) ‘….ahavas chesed v’hatznea leches….’ loving kindness with modesty.
Chasam Sofer writes that Tzedaka is different to other mitzvos in that Baalei Tzedakah should try and publicise their tzedakah. I cannot remember exactly where it is but it is somewhere in in Sefer Braishis.
What did she lose by being chilled out? The daily angst and regret she no doubt has over that time spent rebelling against her Maker – if she is a true baalas tshuvah.
Have a look in Sharei Tshuvah of Rabenu Yonah. There’s no such thing as a free picnic for an adult of sound mind who made the wrong choices. If you live it up the wrong way when you’re young – the sins have to be purged somehow. Either through sincere tshuvah with the constant regret and tears or sadly other means…..
still no subtitle…..(sigh)
Look, if we are getting pedantic, ‘I feel so taken advantage of’ is not just a problem of a dangling preposition.
It is grammatically incorrect anyway.
Firstly the word ‘so’ cannot be applied to a verb in that way despite it’s popular use amongst teenage girls.
Even without the word ‘so’ – it should read I feel I HAVE been taken advantage of.
Also, bombmaniac, for someone who consistently misspells the most common word in the English language…….;-)
Conversation overheard prior to Harvard graduation ceremony:
Guest: Excuse me, do you know which wing the ceremony is being held at?
Harvard Student: At Harvard we do not end a sentence with a preposition.
Guest: Ok, do you know which wing the ceremony is being held at, jackass?