Ofcourse

hello99, The “age gap” may be one of the smaller factors involved.

And you’re clueless (or unwilling to share) about anything past that (other causes)? Hmmmmm.

Even if all Shadchanim start focusing primarily on more age appropriate Shidduchim now (and that wont happen, not all, not even most), it wont make enough of a dent in the problem. Im not sure what can be done, but I am sure there are many more people sharper than myself, in positions of power, who can and should offer additional advice on how to rectify the situation.

If everyone doesnt do their Hishtadlus, we are sending thousands of girls to the dogs, and causing major problems in our community.

With all the Bitachon and mentoring in the world, people have their weaknesses, some girls, and hopefully most girls, but not all, will be able to stay on the Derech haYashar, when lonely and hopeless and older, feeling that they have no future in the frum community as far as a traditional frum life.

MM, perhaps they might even have complaints against the shadchan

No complaints whatsoever! They’re ecstatic with the Shidduch and until after the wedding, when I mentioned Shadchanus, we were the best of friends!

be good, thanks a mil for your sensitivity in this matter! I agree with everything you said!

Update: a middle person spoke to them and this middle person got back to me and said it was “handled”. That was over a week ago, and I havent heard about it yet.

I cant approach Chasan’s parents, theyre of out of towny, Modern Orthodox, Baal Teshuva background. They’re prob not familiar with Shadchanus, and I dont want to alienate them.

ador, I dont know who you are…. and being that I suspect youre female, I might as well tell you that I have a serious shortage of guys, both normal and not and degrees in between. ; (

anon, enough guys for girls who want working boys

No way!

A 21 year old girl who hasnt gone out on a single date, that really upsets me.

If we dont do anything to decrease the numbers of girls single past age 25, we’re going to be sending them to places we dont want to, indirectly.

DY, you don’t think how well someone learns has an impact on their middos and religious maturity?

Not always.

Pac, OC: Perhaps some like girls with beards. But it cetainly isn’t the norm.

I think it’s safe to say that these days a minimum of 75% of the girls marrying even non-secularly educated Kollel boys, have a Bachelors or Masters degree, who make a nice salary. I guess these days guys DO like girls “with beards”.

Pac Furthermore, girls who are way too worldly or independent are hurting themselves. It is like them growing a beard. They are experiencing the problems they are, precisely because of that. A girls place is in the home, not in the world.

Not what Ive been hearing and seeing. Many guys and their mothers want a girl with a nice income (more than teacher or secretary) necessitating bachelors and masters degrees usually.

Dr P: I still believe that Shadchanim who lie and behave nastily and hurtfully agressive, are in a tiny monority.

No one sane wants a tarnished reputation. I think that everyone makes mistakes though.

Dr P,

A shadchan who twists someones arm like that is (in my opinion) like a doctor who performs a surgery that he’s not licensed to. It may work out well for some patients but regardless of the outcome- the board will revoke his license.

After the second date, my daughter felt differently. No arm twisting was necessary. Had the Shadchan needed to do this until the end, it could have been dangerous.

Dr P,

1- It might be hard to say no to a Shadchan, but it’s never impossible! Just say you’ve got to go, and hang up!

2- We already have a severe shortage of Shadchanim, decreasing the numbers of Shadchanim in any way, would make the crisis worse not better.

A shadchan doesnt have to know either of the parties to be successful. My own Shadchan never met either myself or my husband. She had the basic info and what can I tell you, B”H, because of the “H” factor (Hashem) I was engaged 3 weeks later, no pressure. When it goes, it goes. Trust me she barely knew anything about either one of us! She clearly knew our phone numbers, everything else she had sketchy knowledge of. AND neither of us were novice daters- we had been going out for a while! I dont think my situation is that rare either.

Minyan Yes, the girls get well educated in frumkeit and running a wonderful home. This does not make them good “job” material.

Of course not! Im not talking Seminary grads at 21. They complete seminary at 18! We’re talking grads with various degrees such as sepecial ed or accounting, or on their way to Masters in the therapies.

AZ, Girls starting at 18 – that is the problem.

How many Litvishe girls start dating at 18? Of the minute percentage who do, maybe one out of 100 get engaged at 18. At most.

Ive tried lots from zeeslick. Its ok. Gimme my Kleins thank you.

Health, The avg. Jewish woman here in our society could never imagine letting their husband be married to s/o else! Why? Because it’s against the Goyishe society.

Am I wrong or right that if polygamy were ever permitted in our community (theres a chance of 1 out of infinity ;)), the rich guys would have harems with hundreds of wives and the poor guys wouldnt have one! Hee hee.

Dr. Pepper

Back then I made the decision not to converse online with someone who can not respond in a diplomatic way and I stand behind my decision.

I will not be discussing this with you anymore at this time.

If you have any useful ideas to rectify the situation discussed here, it’s your Achrayus to do everything in your power, asap, and publicize your thoughts, here and anywhere else where it can be utilized.

whatr, I dont see what this thread is supposed to accomplish besides for sucking out every last bit of hope from girls who are still single

It is not pleasant, thats for sure. But them knowing that there isnt a major serious attempt made to prevent the problem from reoccuring, the almost apathy and acceptance, is casting a negative light on the hierarchy, which is worse yet.

haifa Two girls become roommates. They each adopt a child. They each have a built-in babysitter.

1- What about the child(ren) not having a live-in male role model issue?

2- What about male companionship that the girls might desire at some point?

Somehow the thought doesnt sit right with me. Either we do our utmost to make adjustments to fix the problem for the future (because for the girls who are already older it seems its too late) or we end up having heartbroken Jewish women living like nuns, who are expected to stay frum even though with the best of intentions, frumkeit hasnt worked for them because within frumkeit they havent been able to achieve their goals and they see that the frum hierarchy hasnt done much to help them out of their misery, either due to lack of power or lack of effort. Not good.

In the years of WW2, American govt. officials and others were despised, and still are, because they sat by while European Jews were being gassed. When they were unaware, they couldnt be blamed. Once they were clearly made aware, they should have bombed the railway stations leading to the crematoriums, etc. Not exactly the same, but there are at least vague similarities.

When you dont know, you dont know, when you do, you do and sufficient analysis, planning and action is expected.

It’s only European Jews…..it’s only a small percentage of frum women who are unable to marry…..it’s bashert…. there’s not much that can be done…..these excuses dont cut it.

bro, i think it’s because it’s dangerous, my parents wouldn’t let me walk down the block while it’s dark.

And two or more adults taking a walk together is unsafe as well?

Do people not take walks in the evenings in the Five Towns and suburbia? If not, what a shame it is that people are living in these $1,000,000+ homes, in neighborhoods where theyre scared to walk around the block after dark. Wow.

apu, Take the girls up to YU. Lots of available single males, all shomrei torah umitzvos. The problem is that they have excluded such available single males from their pool of possible shidduchim. I don’t know why. But it is sad.

A nechtiger tug! No way! Same problem there. Each of the YU guys have tens of Sterns girls to date, who they much prefer! They need the surplus Bais Yaakov girls?

Mother in Israel, well at least in my present case, the family, at this time, is in unity. Neither of the mothers, fathers, Chassan, Kallah, have sent a dime. And yes, they ALL agree I was the sole Shadchan. What unity! 😉

aries, The OP did NOT say she was HIRED, nor that she was a PROFESSIONAL shadchan who runs this business and counts on the money for parnassah.

HUH? Irrelevant! Whether a Shadchan is professional or not, they succeeded in making the specific person’s Shidduch and have to be compensated. No Shadchan charges or expects anything for attempts at arranging dates, or per arranged date, but these days anytime someone completes a Shidduch, it goes without saying, unless the Shadchan is the rare breed who says they want no more than a dollar, that the Shadchan should get paid something close to the community’s going rate, professional or not!!!

Aries, I usually agree with you, but not in this case. How many Shidduchim have you heard of where the Shadchan was given zilch (involving relatives and friends where you’d have heard if the Shadchan got zilch) ? I havent heard of any! It’s sort of rare.

No I wont take them to a Din Torah or anything like that, though.

MiddlePath, perhaps you’d like to clarify why youre happy you live far away from BP/F.