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Moq, “OfCourse – Hold it – when people were willing to work for no money – it’s their responbility?? Are you kidding me? They have to eat, like everyone else.
And I personally have seen dozens of children and adults helped by competent professionals”.
Halevei you’d be right. Im not saying they dont try in varying degrees, depending on the specific therapist, I just never saw a real turn-around. At best, I’ve seen very slight improvements. Once a kid’s life experiences, ego, interests and drive is one way…..
Moq, “Yiddishe – that sounds a bit …spinned”.
He he. Were you never witness to a situation that if you tried explaining it to someone, would be beyond belief? I have. You obviously havent. They happen every day though, both good and bad. Never say never.
What does money have to do with kids getting thrown out of school? I havent heard of any therapists/social workers who bring about noticable changes in either children or adults, from anyone who has used them. HOGWASH! In previous years, when we had devoted, caring Rabbonim, who were willing to give of their time for no money, then we solved problems. Therapy is a business. High vocabulary, lots of hot air and a bill for 175 an hour, thats what therapists offer, nothing more!
abcd2, YOU ARE SO RIGHT!
“How many kids with issues come from the finest of homes and backgrounds? How many kids have parents that are willing to try any suggestion? How mabny kids rebel without cause?
The answer: Tons!”
Absolutely!!! Truly brilliant people often say I don’t know. Their confidence level allows it. It’s the arrogant among us who point a finger of blame and have all the answers, until the tragedy hits them personally.
I sometimes wonder about the Possuk- Hafoch ba v’Hafoch ba D’Kula ba. Many of the biggest Gedolim are clueless on this topic, and when asked will suggest use of psychologists, who are often clueless themselves. This is one topic that has most people stymied. Despite the existence of brilliant scientists in all areas, cures for many maladies are very much unknown and presently just guesswork. Possibly just one G’Zera of our Dor, among other Crises, that we arent meant to figure out.
Great discussion! I’ve had Sprint for a few years now and I’m very happy. B U T now that I’d like to get a Smartphone, I found that the decent Smartphones usable with Sprint have the HIGHEST radiation levels of all Smartphones, so I’m thinking of switching to Verizon! But when I had Verizon for a while before getting Sprint (2-3 years ago), the connection, when I was at home was awful and staticy. Sprint works much better from my home.
So now it’s the Sprint-compatible good Smartphones’ high radiation levels that bother me. The lower the SAR number the better, over 1 is bad. Most Sprint Smartphones are way over 1.
re: The french fries are either regular or the shnitzi fries which are seasoned and really good.
Just tasted both french fries. In my opinion, the regular are typical and nothing spesh!!! The round ones were ok/good, but not outrageous.
I hear from my kids that there are varieties of shnitzel at Shnitzi. (No one in the family has been there yet). Can anyone name the varieties in shnitzel and varieties in french fries and offer comments, please.
Maybe we ought to delve deeper into why girls have a need to be cool…Perhaps she hears in the house, or from other sources, that her older sisters or friends’ sisters who are dating even learning boys, say that learning boys want “cool” girls. I’m reminded of hearing that a well known Rov spoke to an audience in Lakewood, and said he gets calls from crying women, such as wives of Kollel husbands, who complain their wives dress too frumpy. I believe it’s all connected.
Its miraculous to want to stay ON THE DERECH, if you have an inquisitive mind and are scolded by Mechanchim with- “Just follow the rules and dont ask so many questions, or you’ll sound like an Apikores”, which is the Lashon commonly employed in most of our Mosdos.
tp1: And our “educators” don’t get it.
I think its a miracle we dont have way more kids going OTD, or worse! Our schools are pressure-cookers (do this or else and dont ask too many questions..). Chasdei Hashem!
If we’d do our “School” work and our “Home” work more lovingly and intensively, the negative images, etc. wouldnt have anywhere near the effect that they do. Until we clean up our acts, we’re not going to help anyone, anywhere. Negative images are here to stay and are not the root cause of going OTD, they’re merely one of many symptoms.
Aside from weaknesses in our educational system that I mentioned above that are being ignored,I think we’re skirting the real issue. Based on what I’ve read and heard, many in the community are walking the walk and talking the talk of Frumkeit, but are not really feeling true satisfaction from it in their hearts. Children can sense the parents’ true, uppermost goals and dreams. Thats when negative external things have an especially great impact.
I wanted to add, that from what I’ve read and heard there is a great quanity among us who are walking the walk and talking the talk of Frumkeit, but not really gaining satisfaction from religion, as it is today, and this must be addressed.
Somehow I find it VERY hard to imagine that after years of satisfaction from Frumkeit, seeing unsavory images would change a person’s outlook on religion and make him want to sway. If the person is not experiencing satisfaction from Frumkeit, that’s different.
On the one hand we preach about the importance of Midos being of supreme importance, and then in most Frum classrooms, the top students, often with top egos, whether they have top Midos or not, are the ones who the teachers relate best with and give the bulk of their attention to. We’re too much into scholastic achievement. This leaves the less superior students aching. In our circles, there are less avenues where a Baal/Baalas Midos, who is not a top student, can find respect and satisfaction. Even with the most supportive parents confidence is permanently shattered. Our schools very much need revamping, but they’re too busy focusing on the top students to analyze, to realize, to care. So…………
Shidduch Crystal Ball, with definite answers.
Thats easy- one of my role models- R’ Avrohom Blumenkrantz A”H.
Has it occured to anyone that once a person shaves anywhere, it requires maintenance, unless they’re willing to live with the stubble, a far less attractive situation, I would think.
What a question! What a website! I wonder what’s coming next.
I wish for the end of all crises afflicting humanity.
If most people use Eden and Bodek for frozen brocoli, who in BP (Heiligtown) is buying all the Golden Flow frozen brocoli that is heavily stocked on all the supermarket shelves all over the place?
They bring in the grester percentage of income, so they feel they ought to wear the pants. Also “keeping up with Weisses”, aka competition, whose husband is the bigger Masmid.
WIY, which is why after dealing with very many frum, good respectful, well rounded YU/Sterns people, I sometimes say if I had it to do over, I might have sent my kids the YU/Sterns route. Jaws drop.
WellInformedYid, experts can come in on a volunteer basis now and then. Volunteer speakers come to high schools and speak on other topics, so why not this (finding the balance between too strict and too permissive and negotiating/coparenting skills)? Also, the topic can at least be addressed in High School senior year and Seminary/ Bais Medrash.
Bigger challenges have been overcome than the difficulties you describe. If they are, there would definitely be gain to all. If they’re not, at what cost later on?
New York has its advantages, but how can the young buy houses there? There’s a reason enrollment in elementary schools is dwindling all over New York, except for Chassidishe Mosdos. The young working (those not on programs) families cant afford housing.
Also, it works if you dont care about being a speck of sand on the beach.
WIY, true, thats a distinct possibility, but easily remedied, by bringing in talented and inspiring experts in the field on a regular basis. And totally worth it!
The old attitude of Psychology = Apikorsus is no more, and should have never been. The Skverer Rebbe, etc. advises people to go to psychologists, etc. regularly when problems arise. Preparation for parenting should have begun much earlier and is clearly lacking in our school system.
Wouldnt it be nice if Yeshivos/Seminaries/Chasan teachers/Kallah teachers would tackle the subject of parenting, at least to some degree?
After more than a decade of what are considered the best schools for males and females in our community, I came out clueless about parenting and so did my spouse! Major mistake on part of our schools! Parenting could have been discussed all those umpteen years with just slightly less of other subjects, with definite gains in skillful parenting. When you seek help for a problem, it’s already too late, in most cases.
yaff80, I sometimes wonder if the declining Derech Eretz is correlated with the now popular “hands off” parenting approach, where parents are encouraged to have a friend-like relationship with their children. I think in homes where parents are less tolerant (but not abusive), where consequences are clearly understood, children are more respectful.
For Shidduchim you might want to try SYAS (Sawyouatsinai.com), but I have to warn you, it’s a picture/looks oriented site. There are lots of BT’s and Gerim whose life stories are similarly inspiring.
Ishtenem- (common utterance, means my G-d, I think).
Moq, you’ve mentioned unique cases in Israel. I’ve heard of college educated women who had to diaper babies, etc for a job. Some happily, some not.
“if the yes isn’t a burning one, I would also think another life path was necessary. “
I totally agree, but until they’re in it themselves, they’re “out of it”. How many cases have you heard of that? Ive heard many.
“it’s not an easy choice but an ideal and strong desire for kollel can keep them going for a long time”.
If the couple has kids and there isnt enough money to support them, they get help from Uncle Sam. Once they start with that it’s almost impossible to break away from that forever, no matter how the guy is Shteiging, unless its the rare situation where the guy is offered some top position somewhere, either in Chinuch or business through connections, before they’re in the red financially. Ive seen too much of this with close relatives, with a lot of unhappy campers among them.
superficial, Im not sure what BPT said that you took offense to, but I can say from personal experience, many, too many, but NOT ALL, of those who chose long term Kollel lifestyles, would have chosen differently if they had had a crystal ball.
AZ, I know many girls parents who would willingly work with an honest and aggressive Shadchan, even if it means paying for dates, but have no idea how to get hold of Shadchanim who are good at it and know lots of guys.
The Best Bubby: “any juice but NOT pineapple juice”?
Ive had the best results with pineapple juice for years, when trying to rid colds. “Pineapple juice in particular is highly beneficial.” (Diet Health Club) Most pineapple juices are fortified with 100% RDA of vitamin C.
Also eating radishes helps clear cold related mucus.
Im a little wary about sincerity here, because the words Yoish Im Telling you are more uttered by females than males. When was the last time you heard a guy say it?
AZ, “The yated recently in their shidduch forum had a number of experienced people in the field discuss what individual girls and their parents can do to get themselves/their daughters quality dates.”
I havent seen it. Can you please summarize? Thanks.
If they’re mature: Midos, reputation, potential for Parnassah, and common level of frumkeit and goals, before other things.
If they’re immature: Looks, money, story-book romance, and impressing friends, relatives, neighbors and their principals, and the important stuff comes after those.
pascha bchochma, there has got to be definite advantages for both sides! Why would any woman want to SHARE a poor nebish? Do you suggest we force the women into polygamous marriages?
pascha bchochma, Im def NOT single!!! and as far as splitting life insurance, I’d stipulate a mansion and a mil of life insurance, minimum, for myself, or no go!
pascha bchochma, Im female and I think it could work to our advantage. We could marry wealthy ninety year old guys and live the good life and collect life insurance. How long are they gonna live?
myfriend, sure it would resolve the shidduch/age gap, many women would rush to marry the same ninety year old. And then on to the next conquest, real soon.
I like this idea. Let only guys who make $1,000,000 plus yearly, per wife, have aditional wives, and provide each wife with a palatial estate and maids. All the guys would be dropping from heart attacks for their efforts and the women would rake it in with insurance policies. Wo.
Time to start some new affordable communities within shorter driving distance of available jobs and schools.