Observer36

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  • in reply to: Going off the Derech #1183479
    Observer36
    Member

    Write or Wrong —

    Upon first reading SMC’s presumption that something traumatizing must have happened to your son for him to go off the derekh, I completely disagreed. There are many, many reasons that a person may decide to no longer be religiously observant that have nothing to do with suffering trauma. It was — I thought — far too presumptuous a declaration.

    But your last post suggests that SMC may well be onto something. There is a significant difference between an adolescent’s (perhaps understandable) desire to forge his own path and make choices different from the ones his parents taught him to make, and going so far as to act in a way that is blatantly, explicitly disrespectful. That your son might choose to indulge in activities that you wouldn’t approve of *on his own* is one thing. But acting in a manner that interferes with your belief system, and your enjoyment of Shabbos, is quite another.

    The fact that he’s smoking and listening to music on Shabbos *in the house* is, I think, an issue of great concern. In my mind, it bespeaks a real sense of anger…a real need to lash out in a direct, searing, and hurtful way. If, outside of your religious differences, there isn’t a strong basis of conflict between your son and the rest of your family, I would be concerned. The message that your son is sending is that he’s so angry at religion (or the way he has been treated by religious people) that he’s willing to sacrifice his innate drive to be respectful and loving to you and the rest of your family. That sort of anger doesn’t stem merely from theological opposition to religiosity…it bespeaks, I think, something much deeper — particularly if he’s old enough (18?) to go off and engage in these activities outside of your view. When ‘sticking it’ to religion trumps maintaining a cordial and respectful relationship with the family that you otherwise love, the anger undoubtedly runs very deep.

    Disclaimer: I am no therapist. This is all merely my opinion. It is not at all uncommon, in my experience, for OTD children of religious parents to act in accordance with halacha in the presence of their parents — not out of fear, or because they’re trying to ‘fool’ their parents — but merely out of respect for them and their happiness. People are free to make their own choices, but there’s no reason to shove the choices you make that your parents disapprove of in their face, simply lehachis. Agitation for its own sake is not something we do to people we love. I would interpret your son’s choice to act out in front of you as a crying out for help — not for help returning to the fold of Yiddishkeit per se, but for help in dealing with whatever it is that has caused him to be so angry.

    The other possibility is that he’s upset that you’re making such strident efforts to make him chozer b’tshuvah, and this is how he sends the message that he’s not interested.

    in reply to: Going off the Derech #1183460
    Observer36
    Member

    I should clarify that I am not now, nor have I ever been in the past, Yeshivish/Haredi. My observations and conclusions are solely those of an outsider looking in.

    My perception is that there is far less room in the Haredi world for a precocious, curious teenager who is developing a sense of self and what interests him in the world to explore those interests. Where a Modern Orthodox teen with a budding interest in science, art, letters, or any other discipline would be encouraged to develop his talents and pursue his interests in *conjunction with* his devotion to Torah and mitzvot, the similarly curious Haredi teen is not afforded such an opportunity. For those teens who find their thirst for knowledge slaked by delving into the words of Rishonim and Achronim, eschewing Shakespeare, Twain or Einstein may not feel like any kind of sacrifice. But for those who have a passion for “chochmas umei ha’olam,” being taught that devoting time to acquiring knowledge of the profane for reasons other than parnasah is somehow incompatible with being frum can lead to a strong desire to free oneself of what may feel like an overly oppressive or stifling theology. And if, as a teenager, you don’t have the freedom or wisdom to realize that that kind of yeshivish mentality is more hashkafic than it is halachic, you might well end up rejecting Yiddishkeit altogether.

    in reply to: Going off the Derech #1183450
    Observer36
    Member

    Forgive me, please, for being presumptuous, and for projecting my own feelings and biases on your situation…

    What emerges from your posts, write or wrong, is that you’re a particularly intelligent and articulate person. My guess is that you have an advanced secular education, either from schooling or your own efforts (or both). Even your screenname contains a clever pun that bespeaks a love of (not necessarily exclusively Jewish) learning, curiosity and intellectual development.

    I would also guess that your son, being your son, has inherited a lot of these traits.

    I haven’t read all of your posts, but it’s apparent that you live in a Yeshivish community (you cited your son’s continued wearing of “black and white” as a positive sign of frumkeit.) For better or worse, allowing one’s curiosity about art, science, letters, history, etc. to take hold — the pursuit of knowledge for knowledge’s sake –is not exactly a cherished value in the Yeshivish world, particularly if such learning comes at the expense of limudei kodesh.

    There are those who find such an attitude — a repression of one’s natural capabilities and curiosity about the world — to be exceedingly stifling. I have never in my life been Haredi/yeshivish, but in the very brief period of time I spent in a Haredi yeshiva as a 17 year old, I felt that the sense that any activity other than learning was frowned upon and deemed bitul zman was choking me. Because I had been raised in a more modern environment, I knew that this “no-learning-other-than-Torah-learning” attitude was not the only way one could live his Judaism. But I imagine that for what I assume is an intellectually gifted and curious teen like your son, to equate Judaism with a repression of his natural teenage curiosities — to know Yiddishkeit exclusively as a theology that discourages wonderment about anything not found on a blatt Gemara, could very well cause deep resentment of frummkeit, and, ultimately, rejection.

    I remember a guy I was friends with in my 20s. Fiercely intelligent. Raised Chasidish. And hated Yiddishkeit because in his view, based on the experiences he had, religious education could only exist to the exclusion of all other kinds of learning. This was a guy who had (and still has) a deep appreciation for music. (By that I mean he doesn’t merely enjoy listening to music…I mean he had a scholar’s appreciation for its intricacies, and an artisan’s talent for working in the medium.) And I think he felt, again, based on his experience, that he could only fully delve into the depths of music if his Judaism was completely left behind.

    There are other ways of living a completely orthodox, halachic life. Torah U’Madda may not be a hashkafah that the particularly community you’ve chosen to live in advocates le’chatchilah, but it is a legitimate derech that enables a person to live a halachic life that still allows room for pursuit of one’s natural talents and interests. It is conceivable that your gifted, talented, intelligent son has rejected Yiddishkeit not because of taivos or emunah issues or peer pressure, but simply because in his velt, he doesn’t see societal examples of a way in which he can give full expression to his own, natural, curiosities and interests while still living a fully Torahdik and halachic lifestyle. A person who feels a deep yearning to explore, understand, study and learn may well reject a theology that he feels requires him to stifle those interests. If he were to be exposed to streams of Orthodoxy that don’t require such…well, ‘orthodoxy’….his attitude towards Judaism may well change.

    Just my two cents, with a lot of projection, based on my own personal feelings and experiences. I apologize in advance if none of this applies.

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