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shlishi: It doesn’t look like you’re female. You’ll never understand the great nisayon of dressing according to the style. As a girl, I can say that yes, it IS TERRIBLY DIFFICULT!!! I too wear straight skirts – cuz EVERYONE does. I did stop wearing one favorite skirt that was too tight, but I still wear them. So please don’t just say, “don’t wear them”. You can wear tzniusdik straight skirts too.
Pumper: I pull my skirt down while entering/exiting a car. Or cover it with a bag/pocket book as aries suggested.
bh18: Cool. How’d you give it a “girly” look?
“Men, you don’t tell your wife when something is showing? What, you just don’t care?”
I went to buy a dress the other day. There was a woman (probably in her 30s) with her very frum looking husband. She tried a dress which was tight to say the least and “almost” covered her knees. She kinda looked uncertain whether or not it looked ok. She asked for her husband’s advice. He said, “It’s gorgeous. The length is PERFECT. Not too long or too short.” I was almost going to cry. This woman looked like a typical BP lady who would do as her husband tells her. Sometimes, the woman isn’t to blame. Indeed, why DON’T you care, men???
PE: I’ve made many difficult changes in my life. Believe me, they were TOUGH. But there’s nothing as freeing as this. You just feel…uplifted. Change is hard. But hard work makes you feel accomplished.
“.. and sometimes you wanna just continue without making those changes “
Do you WANT to change? Do you like your present life? Do you enjoy living? Is it worthwhile? Do you feel there’s a purpose, a goal in your life? At the end of the day, do you feel accomplished? Are you happy?
Besides, don’t take it as a commitment. Don’t think of it as if you research Yiddishkeit you’d have to do A B and C. These things come as you go along the path. You don’t change overnight. It’s a life struggle. The greatest of Rebbetzins have something to work on.
Hatzlacha Rabba in whichever choice you make.
Nope. Mine’s old fashioned pink. And I’d love a change. If I’d re-paint it, I’d probably choose a light mint green.
Green’s also nice. Perhaps try diff shades for every wall. Good luck!!
bpt: Gosh, your post is hilarious! Well put! lol (a couple of times)!!
I like shades of blue (although my room can’t be painted in blue since I’m a girl:)). Calming and peaceful. Or lavender and a light shade of green.
bpt: Never thought shteig is a boyish word. I mean, doesn’t the word mean “grow” (spiritually)? I think boys and girls can shteig in their midos, no?
Through books. Also, I am very fortunate to have a very open minded mother who had questions herself when she was my age, who answered most of my questions.
Nope, sorrry. All I need is a Yeshiva boy and I’m one of the Kollel wives.
“The obvious answer is presumably somewhere between age 13-19.”
Correct.
“But the declaration of “shteiging” puts you in a whole different class!”
I take that as a compliment. Was that intended?
PE:I did have lots of questions which basically stemmed from my anxiety (although I am a deep person who’s the type to question, my anxiety added fuel to the fire).
I got my answers from Rabbi Avigdor Miller z”l and from the books “Permission to Believe” and “Permission to Recieve” by Lawrence Kelemen.
Just wondering…Did you ever research Yiddishkeit or other religions? Did you ever question you beliefs? (You don’t have to answer if you don’t feel comfortable doing so.)
Good Shabbos!
toomuch: Being an introvert isn’t bad as long as it doesn’t hurt you in any way. If you feel your neighbors and friends get annoyed when you stay closeted in your house then go out to them. I too, have very outgoing and friendly neighbors and friends who expect me to spend a LOT of time with them. At times, I feel like reading a book or bake etc. But I know I have to invest in the friendship.
Also, because you’re spending so much time by yourself, you didn’t really develop your social skills (as you describe). It’s not too late. Go out, make some friends and try to keep the conversation light (although you probably enjoy deep and meaningful conversations, some people find it annoying) and on their level. Yeah, I know it might feel awkward and silly discussing dumb stuff like clothing etc. but with time, you’ll come to tolerate and maybe even enjoy these discussions. Just listen, nod your head, share jokes stories etc. Be cooperative and take part in their games, slumber parties, b-day parties etc.
Good luck!
PE: I thought I made that clear. I realized that no other belief system makes any sense. Besides, I don’t really want to go into the nitty gritty of atheism on here.
bpt: Mmmmm… What am I considered then?
BSD: I was upset your thread closed. I truly enjoyed reading the inspiring posts. Perhaps you can start another thread on this topic with a warning about the fighting. I hope to read more about it!
Weasleylove: Wow,wow,wow!! I’m AMAZED at your strong character! I highly doubt I’d have the courage to do what you’re doing. I GREATLY admire you! I’m not really sure what you should do with your parents, but I think you should try showing them that you still love and admire them.
Hatzlacha Rabba Meod!!! May Hashem repay you for the tremendous karbon you’re bringing.
Wow! I feel humbled by the BTs who posted here. Tikkun, ash and Daniel – That’s truly amazing. Tikkun: Mazel Tov to your geirus!
Your inspiring stories are fascinating.
BSD: There’s a world out there which looks pretty glamorous, carefree and happy. The choice, unfortunately, IS there. After all, it’s YOUR life your leading. I didn’t research TOO much, but I did my homework. Christianity which makes absolutely no sense didn’t take to long to dissuade me. Islam which is full of hatred and blood never looked right to me, so no research (just common sense). Avoda Zara like Buddhism etc. didn’t either make any sense to me. Atheism – well, that’s a biggie. After all, leading a life without a G-d (C”V) is much simpler and easier. So I did do some research and obviously came to the conclusion that there IS a G-d and there is no other belief system that makes sense besides for Yiddishkeit.
I am grateful to Hashem that He made me FFB and that He granted us the Torah and made me realize there’s no One but Him and His Torah.
I think the answer is yes. But I’d probably convert to Yiddishkeit after trying all the other religions, avodah zara, and atheism and after being totally miserable (if I wouldn’t commit suicide first). B”H, I am FFB but I am Torah observant solely because I’ve chosen this path in life and NOT because I was born in this “mold”.
Gosh.. Am I that bad?:(
Hey, this is cool…What about me?
637/32
Me? Daven, clean the house, STUDY FOR FINALS, eat dinner, daven mincha, Tehillim and now I’m off to excercise at a friends’. Oh, and at night? Why, study for finals of course. And some more exercise. Same for tomorrow. And the day after… Oh, well. Finals aren’t too much fun, y’know:(
Thanks kapusta. I haven’t seen this thread before and it got me rolling! (loved the one about “I love him”:))
The “Eidah Hacharadis” has assured it. IMO, they don’t wear it because it’s more tzniusdik. It doesn’t say anywhere that a woman must cover her face like that. I think they are simply doing it to be “rebellious” and twist the Torah around. (Not that I understand what the yetzer hara to do so is, but…)
Charlie: I strongly oppose this, but in regard to what you said, Rus was also standing out with her tznius (Boaz noticed it).
ItcheSrulik: Did he go off BECAUSE of his brilliance? (I’m sure there’s a LOT more space in his current challenging and intellectual job to “move”;))
DY: Thanks. I think I always agree with your comments. Oh, and yeah, you make a lot of sense.
I’ll take 10-15. May he have a speedy recovery.
apy: I happen to have very strong foundation. As I stated before, I come from a choshuv family and my mom’s VERY openminded and ready and willing to listen to anything I have to say. It doesn’t take much though, to turn an innocent teen against her parents and against the Torah. It’s pretty easy to convince any teen who has some questions (which I believe every sane person does question their beliefs) to leave the “narrow minded” and “sheltered” world and enter a sophisticated world of immorality, freedom and fun.
Sometimes, after reading a good post, I think, “Boy, that really makes a lot of sense.” And that’s it! There’s nothing to add! Especially after doing so a number of times and getting no response.
What I find most annoying is after arguing about something till I’m blue in the face and I put in a lot of thought in my post – there’s NO response!!! HEeellooo??? C’you at least TELL me I made sense?? Or that I’m right??? If I feel I’ve been wrong in my opinion I SAY SO.
Gefen: I came to terms with the fact that there are LOTS of people out there who aren’t “mentchen”. Tough. I can’t work on THEIR midos (mine is just enough:)). I also visit the CR MUCH less than I used to. (And post when I’m either super angry or in a grand mood (or super tired). Ok don’t worry – I’m in a good mood – and tired;))
bpt: Thank you.
aries: I agree. Hypocracy IS very often the reason to go OTD.
Itche: She is NOT going off because of her brilliance. She has PLENTY of space to “move”. (The library is still open). She KNOWS all the answers to Yiddishkeit. But the example of Yiddishkeit she’s seen by her parents is not the emes. They’re hypocrites and she views Yiddishkeit like that. AND, as I already mentioned before, she is emotionally sick. AND her “mentor” is as messed up as her who makes matters worse. (BTW, in spite of her brilliance she has zero common sense.)
I’ve no doubt your friend didn’t go OTD because he’s bright. How many frum bright people do you know? (Not to mention the previous gedolim like the Rambam etc.)
Hello, chill out everyone. We don’t know each other. We don’t have one on one conversations. People do read what you write. Sometimes there’s isn’t much to say. Boy, when I first joined the CR, I was insulted whenever I felt “ignored” or “hated”. NOBODY knows you!!! Okay?? You may as well be their mother /friend/ daughter!!
I too am a “sensitive soul”. Believe me, it gets me NOWHERE!!! I learnt to straighten my back and feel confident with myself. I don’t think every poster must respond to my every post.
Okay… I mean, I still enjoy a response:)
Calm down, ‘kay???
BTW, I hope it wasn’t me who “hated” or “ignored” you. Sorry if it were. But I certainly didn’t ignore you now! My post’s pretty long….(thanks to the late hour… Guess I’m off to bed b4 I start gettin’ wacky…;))
Wolf: I’m afraid there are far more sophistecated ways to spiritually harm a child.
Itche: I explained why she’s going off (her parents are abusive and she’s emotionally unstable). But it certainly isn’t because of “too many restrictions” or because she “didn’t fit the mold” (she’s probably the brightest kid I ever met). Her parents are hypocrites. They do pretty bad stuff while focusing on “stupid” chumra’s. THAT’S why she’s turned off. But if the kids FEEL you’re sincere and you yourself keep the chumras and you don’t “put up a show” for everyone while doing kol davar assur at home, the kids stay frum. (As most frum parents are since you see most kids stay frum)If only she WOULD get some REAL VALID restrictions.
Chumros, chumros! Stop with those chumros already! This is why kids go OTD!;-)
I think most people have a little from both. I don’t think it’s a black and white answer.
I am an extrovert. But sometimes, I feel like an introvert (I like to spend time by myself, read a book instead of socializing etc.).
1st Timer: Your idea makes a lot of sense.
I heard from Rabbi Sapierman an interesting mashal regarding this issue. He says that when a teacher tests his students on say, grammar, and a kid asks for help with the spelling of a word, the teacher’ll help him out. However, if it’s a spelling test, the teacher certainly won’t help him out with the spelling.
In our time, Emuna is our great nisayon. Therefore, there is such a great “hester Panim”, and unclarity in this area. It is a very tough test which takes work and energy to pass.
I was the “teen at risk”. I didn’t show it outwardly but in my heart and mind there were thoughts…lots of ’em. B”H, I am now a total “observant teen”. BUT it took some time to get to what I am today. I come from a very choshuv and frum family – with lots of restrictions. I go to a very frum school where questions regarding Emuna is like “huhhhh???” (I got ALL my answers elsewhere. The answers are there. If you’re sincere and truly want to find the emes, you will. Good school or not.) And yet, these WERE NOT THE REASONS TO MY (ALMOST)GOING OFF.
In my case, I had a friend who had a bad influence. And the friend? Why is she going OTD now? Cuz her parents are abusive, AND she is emotionaly unstable.
Abuse and restrictions are two completely different entities. When you do it leshem Shomayim, the kids stay frum. I’ve seen it happen many many times! There are people with WAYYY more restrictions than our’s and ALL their kids are doing fine.
adorable: I read this thread for the first time now with tears in my eyes. I know exactly what you mean. I’m the type to beat myself up over and over again. I used to lay in bed wide awake, my heart thumping, my palms sweating and my mind racing with thoughts like, “did I REALLY do that? There’s no turning back now. It’s over. You’re a gonner.” Oh, those times were terrible.
Now, I learnt to deal with it right. (I’m a bit shaky while writing about it, but I think that’s okay..) I STILL want to feel REMORSEFUL. But I DON’T want to feel GUILTY. I daven everyday by “selach lanu” that Hashem should forgive me. I still feel terrible, but I learnt to move on and focus on the future and the present instead of crying over the past.
Much hatzlacha.
You’re welcome, Chana.
I don’t think we get too much credit on befriending the wide, short,lanky, tall etc., though. Sometimes, I wonder if some posters would think differently of others if they would’ve met them in person.
Who Are You?
You catch my eye
As you pass by
I look at you
I see you…
Yet, do I?
Do I see your pain
Your sorrow and dread?
Do I see the road
On which you tread?
Do I see youur character
Your unique personality?
Do I see your virtues
Your true quality?
Do I see what scares you
What makes you fear?
Do I see what upsets you
What makes you drop a tear?
Do I see your disputes
You disagreements?
Do I see your hard work
Your great achievements?
Do I see the great nisayon
You’ve overcome?
Do I see where
You’re coming from?
I look at your side
As on you stride
Who are you?
What are you?
What do you hide?
I’m an extrovert. But I sometimes wish I weren’t this friendly and outgoing. It is too often that I speak L”H, make others feel bad… Ugh, I just feel awful afterwards and envy those who keep their mouth shut.
Happiest: No, it’s not a stupid question. It is the question many people, including great tzaddikim have asked: “Tzaddik vera lo rasha vetov lo”. Why???
The answer? We don’t understand. This used to be very difficult for me to accept. What do you mean, “I don’t understand”?! I DO want to know! After all, I’M the one suffering! Only after extensive research and painful months have I come to the conclusion that Yiddishkeit is the Truth. Once I REALLY believed, I stopped asking questions (I still have questions, but I don’t necessarily need an answer). Not because everything is crystal clear. But because I believe and TRULY trust Hashem. He obviously knows what He’s doing. He’s been running the world forever and always managed without my “help”. Besides, how do we know the cheshbon up there? How do we know which gilgul this bochur is and why he must go through this suffering? We will get all answers up there.
Meanwhile, all we’ve got to do is daven, daven and daven some more.
adorable: Amen, thank you. BTW, I was in a rush while I posted so it turned out a bit choppy. My situation wasn’t similar (the friend was my gender, pretty harmful though), only the feelings were.
You’re saying you’re afraid she’ll go back to him. What prevented me from going back was the guidance and chizuk I constantly got. If she ever tells you that she’ll just text him “once”, or send a letter or any form of contact just to tell him “one important thing that’ll show him it’s over” please, PLEASE DON’T let her! She was drawn to him for a reason and the reason’s still there. She must sever ALL contact with him. Try giving her some of the love and care he showed her to compensate for that.
B’hatzlacha.
adorable: I went through something similar to the situation you describe. Those weeks were sheer torture. I felt as if somebody has torn out a chamber of my heart. The healing process was painful and took a lot of emotional strength. What was most helpful to me, was a listening ear. No, you don’t have to fully understand what that person’s going through (if you do, then great). Try not to interrupt her when she unburdens to you. Just simply listen. Please don’t tell her she should stop thinking about him and move on. When anybody loses a close relative, the Torah tells us to sit shiva and discuss the niftar. Why don’t we just tell them to move on? Why do we dwell on the fact that they’re no longer here? Because it’s just impossible to “stop thinking” (as many “considerate” people advised me to do). We do think about them.
BUT, we also have to learn to move on. Gently, try pulling her back to reality. Take her out to eat, go shopping etc.
In my case, my friends were very anxious that I turn into my usual self and just go on with life. Thanks to that, my healing process didn’t take too long but was very, very painful. B”H, I’m now over with that (although there are still some fresh wounds and bruises).
She knows she’s done the right thing. Try giving her chizuk, share your thoughts on the matter(you can reiterate your point a million times – she wants to hear how harmful and dangerous it was), and just be there for her. That’s what mostly counts.
Hatzlacha Rabba.
Happiest: I’m truly sorry to hear that. Although I’ve never gone out on a date (yet), I’ve had other difficulties to understand your pain. Life is full of “no’s”. Oh, it’s so hard to deal with them. But that’s what were here for, no? Try writing. It really helps (at least it helps me).
I want you to know that you’re a person I deeply respect and admire. You’ve gone through so much, yet your screen name’s “happiest”! You’re a positive and honest person. I really have a lot to learn from you.
IY”H, you will find your zivug soon. And I want you to know that I still daven for you. Hatzlacha Rabba.
Why, this is so cool! I’m soooo short. My mom’s already nervous for my shidduch! (I’m 5 1″)
Please let me know if the shots work. Thanks!
Boy, I too am very nervous. But at the same time, itching to take this big jump. School is just totally stale (does that make any sense?). I’ve no patience or tolerence to listen to the rambling of teachers and take countless tests. I want to get my diploma, so I’d BETTER do a good job with my finals. It’s just simply GROSS. I feel like moving on.
Hold it! I KNOW, I know. The world out there is scary. I’ve no idea what kind of job I’ll end up taking/getting. I haven’t a clue what my husband, children, grandkids, neighbors etc. will end up being like. But life is unpredictable; no matter which stage you’re up to. And I also know that high school life is supposed to be “carefree”. Well, to me, it wasn’t (except for the year I was in the ninth grade).
So, bygirl, why not take everything as it comes? We aren’t exactly the first to graduate HS. If the others managed…Well, I guess we’ll too.
Good luck!
Too bad I got it right away. 80- I guess I’ll have to take you up on the offer.