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Oom – I was in no way directing that comment to you. Just so you know 🙂
Since I am anyway gonna be offline for a while soon I may as well cut my losses here. Obviously, the observations I am making from my own personal experience (and not from armchair psychology as some others are claiming) are still being seen as highly judgmental and the fact that I am really not the type of person to pass judgment against my own kind based on sweeping generalisations not being taken into account. I was only trying to make the point that women who gain certain positions of authority lose some of their feminine qualities.
I shall let you all battle the rest out yourselves
Oom – women do have more empathy than men! Imagine the same conversation, one between two women and one between a woman and a man. The woman is discussing her woes (whether it’s a hard day at work or a problem with a neighbour etc). The second woman will be all sympathetic (“yes, it’s frustrating, I know how you feel…” but the man will start offering solutions (“so quit your job/move to another department”) since he sees it as a problem that needs to be solved, rather than the woman simply wanting to vent.
Also, imagine a new mother walking down the street pushing her newborn baby. How many women stop by, look inside the pram and coo over the baby, and how many men? Watch next time you are walking in the street and you will see I am right.
I wasn’t implying that we are all delicate wishy washy and waiting to be rescued from the tower. I just meant that there are certain general attributes that women have (such as sensitivity to others and binah yeseirah) and those that men have. Women are allowed to be tough – I never said anything to the contrary, what I wrote specifically was ‘hard’ – ie insensitive to others. Sensitivity is part of being a mother – which normal woman can ignore the sound of her child (or any child) in pain, for instance?
When you wrote about epidurals, I also found that quite funny. I think that they have their place but too many women go for the ‘weak’ option before really trying to cope without it. Just to give you a measure of how I don’t think that women are supposed to be delicate little flowers, I gave birth to my daughter with no pain relief except for laughing gas and did not speak a word or make a sound throughout the entire thing.
that’s exactly what I meant when I said that they can’t handle it, cause it’s too good. Poor Unity
Oom, that’s precisely the sad truth about feminism. These women want to have all the same status and equality with men, forgetting that they are not actually men but women.
I had a teacher in sem who told us “I am a real feminist” – because she understood that women are different from men and therefore have different natures and roles in life. Yes, there may be some who naturally are nasty but if you think about it, the less feminine a woman makes herself, the harder and less sensitive she becomes in her personality
sm29 – the whole point of the shidduch system and why it’s so different from ‘dating’ is that the parents find out pretty much everything beforehand. How many dates would it take until the couple decide that actually they are quite interested if they don’t really feel interested in the beginning?
Character traits like temper will only ever emerge after marriage unless you encounter a specific situation during dating that would force the person to show their true colours, since people will usually be on their best behaviour during a date
benignuman – don’t we learn in parshas bereishis that part of chava’s punishment was that she would be subservient to her husband? and this doesn’t mean that she should bow and scrape to his every whim, it means that she is supposed to be more in the background supporting and helping him in his own avoda.
if you look at non-jewish society, you will see that women who have attained very high positions of power, whether in the army/police force, government or top corporate positions, have lost the sensitive qualities that make a woman what she is – these women are ruthless and very often nasty pieces of work
All chocolate is good, but the Auditors can’t handle it.
what would lord vetinari say about this, I wonder?
I know this one was very oblique but…
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/whats-for-supper?replies=13#post-462734
I consult Nanny Ogg’s Joye of Snacks for my supper ideas
that’s rowan atkinson for those who have just scratched their heads and said ‘huh?’
you can get one when you next buy ten litres of fuel at a texaco petrol station
there is a very subtle Discworld reference in my post on why women can’t be rabbis check out the thread. Points if you get it…
I think it says something when you look at the modern world of women with their ‘equal rights’ and ‘feminism’ how these people are not really wanting what the position really entails, rather they just want to be the same as men. When you put this modernist view together with the Conservative and Reform movements you get women wanting to be rabbis.
A normal frum woman who is well balanced and in her right mind wouldn’t dream of being a rabbi. We know that there are certain jobs that are for men, and some that are for women.
GAW – why didn’t I think of that? Now you get the point and not me…
On the other hand, they could always be offered to leave via the door…
oomis – in the old days there was no such thing as ‘dating’ – it was a few meetings between the couple and if they felt it was right they were engaged. The dating period didn’t “become” so short – it always was! We have somehow caught on to the modern idea that a couple has to go out for a few months to ‘find out more about each other’. In my experience, the really good, non-pushy shadchanim are the ones that end up making more successful shidduchim, which are finalised after only a few dates. The ones who want to make a shidduch and get the gelt are the ones that keep encouraging ‘one more date’ even when the couple are clear that it’s not for them.
And you never answered my question – why would you want your possible future husband to meet your friends whilst you are dating? He is not going to be socialising with them (I hope!)
I haven’t found any threads that interest me to insert a Discworld reference yet – I am currently in some more serious threads at the moment so my contributions may take time
I don’t think it’s the short dating period that is to blame, rather it’s either the pressure that is put on them to make a positive decision to get engaged by a shadchan who wants to close a deal, or the couple’s unrealistic or immature expectations of marriage. The divorce rate is still far, far lower in chassidish communities where the the couple have one date just to see if they like each other and then it’s a l’chaim. That’s because they know what they are doing it for.
I still feel that if a person is focused properly on what dating is actually for then it doesn’t need to drag on. I gave the number 10 because the first couple of dates are to see if the couple get along and if they can enjoy each other’s company, then you learn a little more about them and get to see them in other settings (rather than just sitting down for a drink). One or two of the dates should have some tachlis talk so you can see if you are both wanting the same things in life, heading in the same direction yiddishkeit-wise etc. Within a short time it is possible to tell if the person has what you are looking for in a spouse – as long as you know with a clear mind what is important for you in a life partner, and like I said, this requires proper focus. I used the book Dating Secrets to help me prioritise my list (it helps you make a short list of what you are really looking for), and it says that if you can check five out of ten things with the person you are going out with, it’s a good shidduch for you. FYI, I managed to check off all ten. If you can focus on that, why do you need longer?
And also, why would you want to be in a social setting with your potential spouse and his/your friends? So much potential for disaster, especially if many of them are still single…
married women can wear perfume, just not at certain times. and I was talking about touching up makeup, not wearing it (ie: taking out a lip gloss and applying it in front of the guy). wearing it is fine, as long as it was all put on before the date, not during. but a guy can’t avoid smelling perfume so it’s not a good idea to wear it on a date at all.
DY – it’s a hard decision to make but I know many people who are extremely indecisive and yet managed to make this decision with clarity when the time came. It’s not a decision issue, it’s a commitment one.
Just for the record the night before I got engaged, I knew that things were coming to a head, and that the next day I would either be engaged or we had finished with this shidduch, but I had no idea how it would turn out. I literally didn’t sleep that night weighing up if this was what I really wanted but I knew that if he was right for me then I was ready to make that commitment.
I think the whole thing of shlepping out the dating period is way out of hand. I got engaged after 7 dates over 10 days. One of my brothers did 3 in 3 days, another one did 4 in 4 days and my sister did about 6 in a week.
In my opinion, if a person can’t decide whether they want to make a commitment after 10 dates, there is something wrong with the way they are looking at the shidduch process.
Brony – think about it this way:
Once a girl is married, there are times when she is not allowed to wear perfume for her husband, (the halacha is that he cannot smell his wife’s perfume, therefore the only way this can be kept is if she doesn’t wear it). How much more so for a girl who is not yet married to put it on specially for a date! You wouldn’t start touching up your makeup in front of the guy you were dating, would you?
spina bifida can now be treated in utero before the baby is born.
also, taking folic acid does not only help lower the chances of a spina bifida baby, it also ensures that the baby’s neurological system (brain and nervous system) forms properly.
I am coming in the middle of a thread here but would just like to say my piece:
Here in England there is a real shortage of prison space. Criminals such as serial murderers and rapists and paedophiles are therefore often let out of prison early with ‘time off’ their sentences for good behaviour whilst in prison. These people then go on to re-offend. This is a regular occurrence, but England do not have the death penalty. I feel that for deliberate, pre-meditated murder and similar crimes we should have capital punishment since this would prevent such individuals from being released back into civilian communities.
I got one into the thread on screen names
myself playing piano
those tiny electronic pets seemed cool at first. then they got annoying, and then finally their batteries went dead and now they are just lying around the house as clutter
sometimes people don’t want other random people to know their real name but they use a screen name that fits. I chose notasheep cause I like to think for myself and not just follow blindly. So if you were, say, a Discworld fan, you could always choose a name that reflects that
I think what he means is that some would call Gateshead closed and old-fashioned – which I can say as someone who grew up in Manchester and now lives in Gateshead is simply not true. The fact is that we are a small community that happens to house a thousand bochurim and sem girls and when the girls come into the shops they do tend to congregate and talk very loudly, which makes it hard enough even for residents to do shopping
who else gets to take part
There are no ‘secular’ versions of biblical names. And the word Yiddish simply comes from the German word Jud, which means Jew. However the Yiddish language itself is actually a mixture of German, Polish, Russian and some Hebrew. If you want to look into it, you will find that the vast majority of the people living in Yiddish speaking communities in Europe in the last few hundred years had both the Hebrew and Yiddish versions (as someone already pointed out) – even the Gedolim of Europe, have a look and you will not find any with simply a Yiddish name (think Shlomo Zalman – Zalman is the same name as Shlomo)
Ok, so source wrong but info right, since in the ancient world planets were also called stars, this particular one being named after a Persian goddess. And you know that I knew that.
How about Mazal? Also, I know Esther is fairly common but it has a nice meaning that not many people know – according to the medrash Esther was a Persian name meaning ‘star’ (and I am biased anyway, my daughter is Esther)
Nope. Wasn’t me.
I wonder what happens when I push this button that says ‘Do NOT under ANY circumstances push this button’
That reminds me of a similar joke:
A childless couple went to visit a gadol for a bracha whilst they were visiting E”Y. The gadol said he would put a kvittel into the kosel for them, and the couple left, satisfied.
Five years later, they were back in E”Y for a holiday and the wife met the gadol again. He remembered her and asked how they were. She replied that they were doing fine: B”H they’d had twins ten months later, then triplets a year after that, and then another child and one more set of twins very close together.
“Baruch Hashem!” the gadol said. “And where is your husband?”
The wife replied, “He’s gone to the kosel to find that piece of paper!”
No idea. Ask your brother, he’s been going through the TPs recently so he may have seen it…
well that doesn’t really do much for me over here does it?
“Doctor, doctor, I keep thinking I’m a moth.”
“You don’t need a doctor, you need a psychiatrist.”
“I know but I was passing by and your light was on…!
“Doctor, doctor, my husband thinks he is an elevator.”
“Tell him to come in.”
“I can’t, he doesn’t stop at this floor…”
My husband says that if I can’t stop snoring then he’ll leave me.
I’ll miss that guy.
I read Neverwhere a while ago – that’s the one with Door, right?
Any word longer than ‘beer’ is a long word for a Nac Mac Feegle
😀
Speaking of cannibals…
A cannibal met his friend shortly after arriving back from holiday. They get chatting, and Cannibal 1 tells Cannibal 2 all about the wonderful time he had:- “It was amazing, really enjoyable holiday!”
Cannibal 2 then asks Cannibal 1:- “So how come you are missing an arm and a leg?”
Cannibal 1 replies:- “It was self catering!”
I haven’t read that one. I think the Tiffany Aching series is for younger readers. You can usually tell by the fact that most Discworld books don’t have chapters but those, and also The Amazing Maurice, do have chapters. Having said that, I love the Nac Mac Feegle