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Rachiv,
It is sad to read some of the insensitive replies on this thread.
You should most definitely keep up a good relationship with your family (except in some unusual situations). They are good people, too.
JC is a very very complex topic. There are mainstream opinions. There are lesser known opinions. There is also much that was made up, and much that we don’t know.
When with your family you should seek common ground. For better or worse, early Jewish xtianity promoted the Torah commandments for Jews and the 7 commandments for non-Jews. When the non-Jews took over, they seriously confused many things. But in any case, there is still a lot of common ground. The fact that xtians do not follow most commandments is still in agreement with the Jewish position that they are not commanded to.
So focus on what we agree on. There is so much. Most of the rest you can say we really don’t know all the facts. Some things you will have to respectfully differ, but with the attitude that this is right for me.
Outsider
I am an insider outsider. Many years in Kollel etc etc, mostly part of the regular crowd, but still different.
I do not shun secular knowledge, and I have no issue with evolution etc etc if it is true.
My first allegiance is to the Mesorah, which I will always strongly defend, but not blindly or stupidly. The Torah did not give over every detail in the surface pshat, and some things were said in ways that we can relate to and are not necessarily meant to be literal.
writersoul. I did no victim blaming. Bushah was a big component. But it was more than that. In any case, back then, the victim generally wanted to marry the person who did it. Sounds strange but it is true. Read Navi and you will see that Tamar wanted Amnon to marry her. Things were different then.
Outsider. My post was not in reply to yours at all. I see now that it can seem that way. I actually think we are on the same page.
From many of the posts it seems like there is little understanding about compulsive disorders (which the OP seems to have). They are not controllable. Yes, for a few minutes or sometimes hours or even a whole day, but by and large it cannot be controlled.
3 compulsive anxiety disorders that everyone should read more about are OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder), tourettes syndrome (vocal and motor tics), and trichotillomania (obsessive hair pulling).
There is also little understanding of hilchos shabbos. Compulsions are not misasek. A person may start off not knowing, but then they do know what they are doing and can’t stop. Compulsions are anus, not misasek. In gemarah times it was called ruach raah. See Eiruvin 41b.
I was not discussing the effects of medicine on these disorders. Medicine is always an option, but its effects are somewhat of a mixed bag.
Some people here are so ignorant. Maybe first look up things like tourettes syndrome and trichotillomania and then talk. These are anxiety compulsions that can only be slightly controlled.
As for Shabbos, nail biting and hair pulling is midirabanan.
Second, compulsions are anus. The gemara in Eiruvin discusses similar situations.
Third, dirabanans are mutar in cases of tzar. The anxiety of compulsions is a great tzar.
This does not mean that we should do these things lichatchila. But if one ends up doing it because of an anxiety compulsion, it is not a an issur.
On the other side, these kind of issur look alikes might stem from or be suggestive of deeper issues, so it is always something to you need to be mifashfesh.
These things are also always meant to humble a person.
Rape as per the Torah is a completely different situation than we are dealing with today. The Torah assumes they will marry and the man cannot divorce her. Many are reviled by these things, but they just don’t realize how things were back then. When a woman was raped back then, she wanted to marry that person. Just read some Navi about Amnon and Tamar. Read also some Navi about how the Binyaminites got married.
Rape today is akin to murder. Do not compare the two.
No reason to get bent out of shape over evolution. If it is true then it is true. If not not.
The Torah does not say every exact detail. Moreover, it is commonly accepted that maasei bereishis represents the sefiros much more than it represents pshut pshat. The pshut pshat is still generally well regarded, but it doesn’t have to be exactly literal. It might be, but it doesn’t have to be. The Torah’s surface pshat is not giving a physics lesson. It is telling us how to generally relate to what took place.
Aside from all that, 99% of questions have answers. Often, the true answer is only revealed after the easier or more comfortable answers are proven false.
It is not worth trying to prove or disprove Torah, God, etc. There will be evidence for both ways and people will side with what they want to side with.
So why do we believe?
1) We believe because our souls want us and inspire us to.
If your soul does not do so, then you either don’t believe or are struggling with it.
2) We believe because those who love us train us and nurture our souls to believe. A good person must have a first allegiance to the training of those who love him.
Is this not true for every religion?
Yes it is. And so what. If you were raised Jewish, your first allegiance is to be Jewish. That is the team you were put on.
Do people sometimes change teams? Yes, but you need a very good reason to do it. Converts find these compelling reasons. If a person is compelled in a certain direction, then they must carefully explore it. If not, just stay on your team.
First a person has to be a mentch. Baal Teshuvas tend to see things in black and white, but that isnt the way it really is. Somethings are no-nos but can still be thrown at you in a twist of fate, and Hashem wants you do deal with it.
Is it a no-no to marry a goy?? You bet it is. But it was still a twist of fate in Esther Hamalkas life to deal with it.
It is obnoxious to tell someone you are no longer their friend because you are now more religious. Ouch!
Now you have to be a mentch and deal with it. If she still wants to be your friend and respect your choices, then you should be her friend.
Torah and militarism are two distinct aspects of Judaism. At times, the two factors converge into one. This is the malchus of David Hamelech, the Torah Warrior. Joshua is also the same idea. At other times, the two factors are separate causing a rift. This is how it was by Yaakov and the rift with Shimon and Levi.
Historically speaking, we are now in the galus of Yaakov. As such, Torah and militarism will remain distinct factors and cause a rift. Neither is wrong. This is why there is currently such a rift in Israel over this issue. The two factions will not integrate into one. Neither is wrong.
The next Torah warrior integration will be in the times of Moshiach. Moshiach will battle the battles of G-d and destroy the wicked.
Some pointers on this issue:
1) Don’t expect too much. Do your best and accept whatever was decreed from above.
2) It’s not about you. Take the anger of your lost dreams out of the picture. Sharing your hurt in a non threatening way, occasionally, may be ok, but be careful about that too, and don’t pour it on.
3) On the practical side, keep religion out of it. You don’t see eye to eye on this, and you need to accept that.
4) The goal of your interactions with him should be 99% about responsibility. Turned off from religion is one thing. Being an idiot is another.
5) You should try to inspire him about religion in a non threatening way.
6) If you love your child unconditionally, that is fine. If you don’t, that is also fine. Do not fake what you feel for what you don’t feel. It does not work. Your feelings are what they are. It is how you express them and deal with them that is more important.
Hope this helps.
There was good advice on this issue before people started addressing the wife, but not much afterward. There is surely a good aspect of not confronting the husband and shaming him. But keeping quiet is also not the answer.
The fact is that great people can have great taavahs and nisyonos. Even if one succumbs to them many times, that person can still be a great person, although not exactly in the straightforward way. There are two paths to greatness, one as a tzadick, and the other as a baal teshuva. And often times, teshuva is a never ending continuous process and struggle.
The ikkar is that the wife needs to look into his soul. Is the husband a complete faker? If yes, then it is best to leave him. Does he espouse righteousness, but secretly feels absolutely nothing for it. If he is a complete faker, a closet apikores, leave him.
If however, the husband has nisyonos and wants to be good, but aino yochol lichvosh yitzroh, then the wife needs to cry along with him and share his burden. If his heart and soul is good, tell him you understand his difficulties and are there to support him in any way you can.
To confront and shame him is wrong!
To keep quiet is wrong!
No, you did not ask for this burden, but it is yours nonetheless.
Step up to the plate and be there for your husband!!!
That is your nisayon!
Will you pass it?
It just occurred to me to add the following:
We can now explain a well known portion of Tehilim (with a twist).
Infinity, Zero, and Yesh Maayin
(This dvar Torah is so fundamental, please feel free to copy and distribute.)
Infinity and zero are opposites. Zero, more down to earth, is somewhat more manageable than infinity, but both are transcendental incomprehensible opposite forces, the eternal versus the void.
Mathematically, infinity and zero have unusual qualities. Unlike standard numbers, zero times or divided by any number is still zero, and infinity times or divided by any number is still infinity.
What does all this mean? HaShem is the infinite, the eternal spiritual source. Only one thing can bring forth something from nothing. Infinity times zero does not equal zero or infinity; it equals any number. When there was nothingness, tohu vavohu, everything could and did come forth. The infinite can do that to the void. Moreover, dividing something by the infinite is the source of complete limitation, complete nothingness. Ain od milvado. Divide something by HaShem and there is nothing. Divide something by nothing and it is infinite.
By Nosson Dovid H
Lakewood NJ
mdd: A second heter (beside learning in the beis medrash) is ma’asei beis din. When halachic things need to be carried out, they are done so, without worrying about hirhur. The gemarah Sanhedrin discusses this in regard to the sotah affair and sekilah.
But to discuss these matters in the wrong venue in explicit ways and to super focus on women’s issues is just yetzer hara. Tricky guy he is.
missme: a missing word made my previous post have the opposite connotation.
I was saying that men should not super focus on tznius issues. The yetzer hara either gets you to talk about women directly, or it gets you to talk about the same things indirectly. The talk is almost identical, only that the “frum” version has the twist of demonizing the errant ones.
These are women issues. There is a special kedusha Hashem gave to the beis medrash, which allows one to cover these issues in purity. The gemarah clearly says that you should drag the yetzer hara into the beis medrash. He has no power there in its kedusha.
But when the topic is in the street, it’s total yetzer hara, whether it sounds frum or not.
In my oppinion, a public drasha even in shul does not qualify as a beis medrash learning session. These matters are best dealt with by women for women and sometimes by rabbonim for women.
In the real gutter, however, there is no excuse. And the more “frum” it sounds, the more anger and repressed tayva it represents.
Why did my post just disappear?
I will try again.
I think the solution to the tznius problem runs along these lines:
1. Instead of being shocked and disgusted, try reinforcing the alternate spritual beauty of tznius. (In other words, positive is better than negative.)
2. Don’t super focus on tznius as opposed to the many other ills of society. The ranting of some individuals against tznius might stem from a repressed yetzer hara coming out in that way. If the yetzer hara can’t get you one way, it gets you another way.
I’m surprised no one mentioned this.
Al Tarbe Sicha… has nothing to do with listening to your wife talk. It has all to do with the man saying more (too much more) than is necessary. This is great advice between husband and wife. Listen more talk less.
Hi Jmax,
In the hagadah we say that the havtacha of yitziyas mitzrayim stands for our fathers and for us, through all generations, to save us from destruction.
On this the hagadah continues, go and learn from Lavan… The pshat I had on this(quite a few years ago) is that the hagadah is darshening the above question of what connection is there between Lavan and Mitzrayim?
The drasha is that the havtacha of vayered mitzrayma saved Yaakov from arami oved avi. This proves v’hi sheamda lavosaynu…
Here is a great insight I recently had on something we say twice a day in Shema.
We say: …And you shall remember all the mitzvos of HaShem and do them, and you shall not turn after your hearts and eyes…
More than “and you shall not turn after your hearts and eyes” is a commandment not to do so, it is a promise that if we remember the mitzvos and keep them, we will be guarded from turning after our hearts and eyes.
good vuch
The tree of da’as of good and bad held the new knowledge that good is bad and bad is good. Physical good (temptation etc.) is spiritual bad and physical bad (toil etc.) is spiritual good.
Chava was thus surprized to see that the tree was physically good and yet prohibited, because she thought that good was good and bad was bad.
They should have gained the tree’s knowledge without eating from it, but instead they gained its knowledge in sin. And now it was clear that sin was desirous, and sin subjugated them to the desire for bad things. This caused death.
Jaymatt.
As I mentioned long ago, I went back to my cave. Hopefully, however, I will post something now and then, but I’m not going to put myself all out on the level that I did. B’ezras HaShem, the right time and place will arrive for me to share my dvri Torah.
In my oppinion, the image can be altered to project the usual circumstances of the Yeshiva.
If, on the other hand, the bais medrash is never full etc. etc., it would be geneivas da’as to imply otherwise.
But there is a big grey area in-between these two points.
It seems no one was nispoel from my vort. I’ll just go back to my cave.
I’ll put in my two cents without the advantage of reading all the posts in this thread.
I think that a girl talking yeshivish is a shtick. I doubt that there is much toichen behind it. I doubt that most boys have toichen behind it. I see it as harmless, but some boys will like it and some won’t. In the end, you have to find someone who you can relate to. If the shticky talk breaks down some barriers to communication, then it’s a good thing. On dates, both sides want to impress. Such talk is the girl’s way of showing that she can relate to what is chashuv to the boy. Keep in mind that this kind of talk will probably end either right after the wedding or as soon as the reality of life hits both of you like a ton of bricks. So enjoy it for as long as it lasts.
If, by chance, there is toichen behind the girl’s talk, that’s another story. A special boy, who is confident in himself, will see it as an advantage. Others may get scared off.
bemused: your welcome.
a few points about ba’aley madrega.
A ba’al madrega doesn’t all of a sudden become frum when it comes to someone else’s degradation.
A ba’al medraga does the right thing for the right reasons and doesn’t promote his superiority.
A ba’al madrega has seichel and is not tzadick harbeh.
A ba’al madrega has a keen sense of when he can “break the rules.” The gemarah (kidushin 81b-82a)says ain mishtamshin b’isha klal, but lshem shamayim it is muttar. Moreover, the gemarah (nazir 23b) says that an aveirah lishmah is as great as a mitzvah shelo lishmah (which leads to lishmah).
I wish this world was filled with ba’aley madrega.
****Dvar Torah for Sunday****
(by me)
Each of the Ten Commandments is in a separate parsha except for the first two and last one. The first two are in one parsha, and the last one is in two parshas. This creates a new symmetry, as follows:
10b
110a
29
38
47
56
The amazing result is this:
Before one kills another, two people stand side by side. If you kill the other person, you stand alone.
Quite amazing, if I can say so myself.
yashrus: great vort. The way I heard it is that if you get something that you don’t work on, it has no affect on you. The telling thing was that the shifcha saw all that stuff and remained
a shifcha!First and foremost, you should look for a person who has the same chashivus for Torah as you do. This may or may not be someone who works. Secondly, because you are thought out, you have to look for someone who is thought out. Many young boys and girls don’t know what they are going to do. Because you have thought this through, go for someone who has a plan. If the plan makes sense to you, go for it. Don’t confuse dreams for plans. All boys will tell you their dreams, but few have real plans. Always remember, however, that the plans you make might not work out.
i’ll do sunday again
my divrei torah are generally my own. Regretfully, then, I may have to stop when they run out.