Non Political

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  • in reply to: Be Aware Before You Vote #2382867
    Non Political
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    I’m not voting because:
    1) My Rabbonim hold not to vote
    2) I can’t, in good faith, affirm allegiance to the WZO platform

    That being said, I would like to understand on what grounds joining the WZO is permitted. If someone on this forum received an actual hesber (not a silly tzu shtel to political elections) please share.

    in reply to: Three Oaths essay from Rabbi Avraham Rivlin of Kerem B’Yavneh #2381536
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    @ YB

    It’s funny that you get called a Zionist after making your position on the matter crystal clear in multiple posts.

    in reply to: The antizionism amongst religious Jews has no legitimate detractors #2376865
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    @ somejew

    You wrote: My opening post was a long explanation of my understanding and open ended question for response about the Torah’s system of psak and halacha. as mentioned, I didn’t see anyone challenge it.

    It seems most respondents didn’t see, in what you outlined, the Torah system of psak and halacha

    in reply to: Rabbi J.B. Soloveitchik — A Godol B’Kiruv #2376862
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    @ AAQ

    You wrote: At the basic level, if you put aside history of animosity between different groups, what would be your problem with the state?

    Why are you asking him this? Isn’t it clear that from his point of view there are at least 2 things wrong with the state
    1) It is forbidden to make a state before Moshiach comes
    2) You are joining in an enterprise with people who are using the said enterprise to replace authentic Yidishkeit with Nationalism

    I’m not saying that there are no responses to the above 2 points but HaKatan has been very clear and consistent regading where he stands on this, no?

    As an aside, it is worth mentioning that when secular Zionists made clear that their agenda was not merely practical statehood but proactive shmad it was Rav Kook himself who said that the Rebbonim would have to downplay the importance of E”Y (like Chazal did with the Eserah Dibros due to terumos haminim).

    in reply to: Rabbi J.B. Soloveitchik — A Godol B’Kiruv #2376756
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    HaKatan has knocked out the R”Z strawman in the first round and the crowd goes wild

    in reply to: WZO elections 2025 #2376428
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    @ ZSK

    “I asked you to define Mesorah as a term”

    Good luck with that

    in reply to: The antizionism amongst religious Jews has no legitimate detractors #2376423
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    @ somejew

    You wrote: “I would rather speak about psak and torah”

    We have been waiting with baited breath, spanning multiple threads, for you to start doing that

    in reply to: Rabbi J.B. Soloveitchik — A Godol B’Kiruv #2376327
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    @ ZSK

    You wrote: “What I disagree with in this thread (and in the threads about Zionism, the IDF, etc.) is the blatant disrespect and character assassination the Chassidish and Yeshivish communities continue to engage in vis a vis MO and RZ communities and their Rabbonim.”

    I grew up in a MO community and also lived in Bet-El for a bit and learned with a talmid from R’ Melamid’s Yeshiva. What you describe has not been my experience. I heard (and hear) a good amount of derision from both sides. To a certain extent, this is by design. The tool to effectively shape and rally public opinion has always been rhetoric, not logic, v’hamaivin, yavin, (For those who will accuse me of ascribing Greek methods to Rebbonim, I refer them to the Ramchal’s Sefer Malitza.)

    in reply to: The antizionism amongst religious Jews has no legitimate detractors #2374509
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    The original source for the statement from R’ Meir Simcha of Dvinsk is a letter on behalf of Keren HaYesod

    in reply to: The antizionism amongst religious Jews has no legitimate detractors #2374508
    Non Political
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    The original source for the statement from R’ Meir Simcha of Dvinsk is a letter on behalf of Keren HaYesod

    in reply to: The antizionism amongst religious Jews has no legitimate detractors #2374505
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    @ Square Root

    Here you go:

    רמב”ן השמטות לספר המצוות להרמב”ם, מצוה ד’

    רבי מאיר שמחה מדווינסק הובא הרב מ. כשר מספרו התקופה הגדולה עמ’ קע”ה

    in reply to: The antizionism amongst religious Jews has no legitimate detractors #2374361
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    @ HaKatan

    You are misquoting me. I did not claim that “no poskim bring the 3 oaths as Halacha.” I did ask you you to provide citations for your claims so that the specific points made can be addressed in the context of this post.

    in reply to: The antizionism amongst religious Jews has no legitimate detractors #2374277
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    @ Ramban

    ולא נעזבה ביד זולתינו מן האומות או לשממה, והוא אומרו להם:
    ‘והורשתם את הארץ וישבתם בה כי לכם נתתי את הארץ לרשת
    אותה’- הרי נצטווינו בכיבוש כל הדורות.

    It [the land] won’t be forsaken in the hands of other
    nations nor won’t be destroyed, and it says ‘And you
    shall take possession of the land and settle in it, for I
    have assigned the land to you to possess.” We see that
    we are commanded in conquering it in all generations.

    in reply to: The antizionism amongst religious Jews has no legitimate detractors #2374275
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    @ The Satmar Rav, V’Yoel Moshe

    ויש טפשים האומרים שיען שהיה בהסכמת רוב האומות אין כאן
    לא איסור שבועה ולא איסור העברה על הקץ, וכל כך גבר
    החשכות וסמיות העינים שנפל על העולם לטעות בדברי הבלים
    כאלו.

    There are fools that are saying that since there was an
    agreement amongst most of the nations there is no
    longer an Oath nor a prohibition of forcing the end.
    This darkness and blindness has increased so much
    that people are mistakenly following these words of
    vanity.

    I will leave it to Hakatan, Somejew, and UJM to explain this passage in v’Yoel Moshe in light of the quote from R’ Meir Simcha HaKohen of Dvinsk.

    Also, maybe they can shed light on why we should give greater weight to what the Satmar Rav wrote vs what R’ Meir Simcha wrote. In the meantime I will go watch some paint dry as I listen to the sweet chirping of crickets

    in reply to: The antizionism amongst religious Jews has no legitimate detractors #2374274
    Non Political
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    @ R’ Meir Simcha HaKohen of Dvinsk

    אמנם כעת הסבה ההשגחה, אשר באספת הממלכות הנאורות בסאן
    רעמא ניתן צו אשר ארץ ישראל תהיה לעם ישראל. וכיון שסר
    פחד השבועות, וברשיון המלכים קמה מצות ישוב ארץ ישראל
    ששקולה כנגד על המצוות שבתורה למקומה, מצוה על כל איש
    לסייע בכל יכלתו לקיים מצוה זו.

    However, now providence has arranged, that through
    the gathering of the great nation is San Remo a
    mandate was made Israel belongs to the Jews. And
    since the fear of the Oaths are gone, and with
    permission of the nations comes the Mitzvah of
    resettling Israel…..

    in reply to: The antizionism amongst religious Jews has no legitimate detractors #2374273
    Non Political
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    Re: my question about Yoma 9B.

    Pnei Yehoshua (on Ketubot 111a) points out that Yoma 9b implies the opposite – that the redemption did not come because the Jews did not ascend as a wall. And since these two aggadic sources contradict each other, we must understand them in some other, non-halakhic way. (From footnotes on a shiur from R’ Eliezer Melamed).

    I guess HaKatan got me on “just being lazy”

    in reply to: The antizionism amongst religious Jews has no legitimate detractors #2374051
    Non Political
    Participant

    @ HaKatan

    Your laziness to look at VaYoel Moshe or elsewhere is not an excuse for insinuating that others are making things up. See this post here, on these very boards, for example: https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/refuting-the-three-oaths-gimel-shevuot#post-2266950

    I did read that post, and other posts on that thread. You got trounced over there as well.

    in reply to: The antizionism amongst religious Jews has no legitimate detractors #2374050
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    @ YB

    You wrote: Facts are facts. Even katan cannot wish them away.

    Apparently he can. Witness the power of Indoctrination.

    in reply to: The antizionism amongst religious Jews has no legitimate detractors #2374049
    Non Political
    Participant

    Is there ANYONE in the anti-Zionist community who can actually formulate a cognizant response to the many thoughtful challenges presented to you in this thread?

    Non Political
    Participant

    @ ZSK

    I saw Yoma 9b. Not sure how it “refutes the 3 oaths. Note, I am not taking a position here on if one does or does not have to refute the oaths. I am asking how you and Avi K see Yoma 9b as a refutation.

    You wrote: Charedi blood is not סומק טפי in comparison to the צדיקים מק״ק דתי לאמי למיניהם, who have sacrified everything in a פיקוח נפש situation while Charedim refuse to do anything

    This may reflect how the R”Z community sees the Charedi community but it is unfair generalization. A large number of first responders who rushed directly into harms way on Oct 7 to save lives where Charedi Hatzola volunteers. One of my Rabbonim is certainly Chareidi and I still remember him coming in with his IDF uniform during meluim. R’ Yisroel Zev Gustman was a Chareidi Rosh Yeshiva (who was offered to be R”Y of Ponovich), he said that speaking against soldiers in m’gala pnei Torah shlo k’halacha.

    On the other hand I don’t think most Charedi Gedolim recognize the legitimacy of having secular Jews in positions of (military / civil / Judicial authority.

    in reply to: The antizionism amongst religious Jews has no legitimate detractors #2373528
    Non Political
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    “Rabbi Kook’s stating that the entire Torah will be revealed through the atheist soccer players whom, Rabbi Kook claimed, will be on a greater level of prophecy than even Moshe Rabbeinu.”

    Where are you quoting this from?

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    @ UJM

    I read through the letters you posted from the Satmar Rav. Perhaps you would care to post where the Satmar Rav sees in Rav Kook’s written works or speeches that: ועל הכלל כולו יצא, לכפור בתורה שבכתב ובע”פ ובעיקרי האמונה לתת אותם לשמצה

    enquiring minds want to know

    Non Political
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    @ Avi K and ZSK

    Can you gents unpack for me how what Reish Lakish said in Yoma 9B is the opposite of the 3 oaths?

    Non Political
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    @ YB

    You wrote: “This is clear
    Zionism was/is/remains a sakana for yahadut.”
    Most Zionists were heretics.
    Most Zionists were choteh umachti et harabim.”

    For this to be CLEAR you would have to differentiate between S”Z and R”Z and qualify that you are referring to S”Z.
    Otherwise please explain: how does following the hadracha and psakim of R”Z Rebbonim constitute a sakana for Yahadus? If you where machria like the Gedolim who reject R”Z what criteria did you use? What criteria should the rest of us use? Given the thoughtfulness of your posts in general I am confident it’s something better then “my Rabbi is bigger then your Rabbi and everybody should recognize that, duh).

    in reply to: The antizionism amongst religious Jews has no legitimate detractors #2372608
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    @ Chaim87

    Your ability to remain positive and upbeat throughout all this is truly admirable.

    @ somejew

    You wrote: (to Avi K) Yes you were just kofer in “Kol HaTorah Keelo”. You should take back your words and do tshiva

    And you should learn how to read and understand what people are writing. Maybe start by identifying the subject and predicate in Avi K’s proposition. Maybe he should have written it in Yiddish for you.

    in reply to: The antizionism amongst religious Jews has no legitimate detractors #2372607
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    @ HaKatan

    You wrote: “…which is also brought down by poskim on the spot there and elsewhere.”

    Which Poskim bring it “on the spot”? Citation please.

    You wrote: we anyways pasken like the oaths, as per all the poskim that bring those as halacha

    which Poskim? Since you claim that “all the Gedolim” agree with the Satmar Rav and the Brisker Rav you should have no problem citing their Halachic works where the 3 oaths are brought.

    You wrote: including the Rambam himself in Iggeres Teiman.

    The Rambam writes that the Mishna Torah contains all the Dinim of Torah sh’baal pe. The 3 Oaths are not there. Let that sink in.

    Avi K wrote: Rambam does not pasken them in Mishna Torah. Neither do any of the Rishonim, Shulchan Aruchm Rema, and Achronim. You wrote: You are left with an academic question as to why it’s not in other sefarim too. The Satmar Rav and others addressed that academic question, which is otherwise irrelevant.

    It is not merely an academic question and certainly not irrelevant. Omission from every major Halachic Code From the Rif through the Shulchan Aruch sets Halachic Precedent. To refer to this as academic and irrelevant is, in technical parlance, a big halachic boo boo. Now, it may be that the Satmar Rav addresses this objection. Have you read how he does this? Perhaps you would care to post an executive summary for us simple folk here in the CR?

    Non Political
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    @ Avi K

    HaKatan and somejew claim that based on the Satmar Rebbe, Brisk, and all the Gedolim “Zionism (including R”Z) is OBVIOUSLY kfira and apikorsis. So even if the three oaths where not an issue we would still have a problem. Now, I have tried (thus far unsuccessfully) to get them to provide some actual positive content to this claim. Even an appeal to authority should be attached to a specific, unambiguous claim.

    Something like this:

    Step 1. Religious Zionists believe / do__________(include one or more specific, unambiguous beliefs or actions).
    Step 2. The Satmar Rebbe / Brisker Rav says __________ is/are obviously kfira / apikorisis (include referenced citation)

    in reply to: The antizionism amongst religious Jews has no legitimate detractors #2372340
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    @ ZSK

    I’m referring to comments (not made by you or Chaim 87) that are מבזה תלמידי חכמים. Regardless of what segment of the Torah community one is from affronts to Kavod HaTorah must be condemned in the strongest possible terms. Comments that Hareidi Gedolim caused the Holocaust or somehow missed pashut pshat in Tanach are deplorable and certainly outside the pale of acceptable discourse. When such comments are made in the name of / in defense of R”Z one would expect the bnei Torah among them to protest.

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    @ ZKS and @ Chaim 87

    You guys are obviously not responsible for every idiocy being propagated in the name of R”Z. At the same time given what some of the posters have written on this and the other thread the silence in deafening.

    @ aaq

    I really enjoyed your post. a freilichin Purim.

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    @ somejew

    “You wrote: we do have a clear Gemara in Chilin that say that we can paskin a question based on the observed actions of a Talmid Chuchem with a chazukeh as a Tzadik, that is obviously only in the case of a question between two shitas in Torah. Certainly, we don’t paskin to go after an observed avairah!”

    Per the above ANY written or oral source that disagrees with Satmar / Brisk will simply be construed by you as (1) going after an observed avairah. Even if the Ravs authority (in the source presented) would be unimpeachable by your own standards you would certainly take the position that the source is (2) mzuif or (3) the Rav wrote based on misinformation.

    But then you wrote: “To push the point home… I am looking for bona fida Torah sources.”

    It seems to me that either (1) you did not write the above line (and the OP) in good faith or (2) you didn’t realize that what you wrote doesn’t shtim with itself. Of course, it’s also possible that I am simply misunderstanding you

    Next

    You wrote: If anyone here is interested in taking this conversation seriously, we need to start with defining our terms, specifically “what is zionism”…if anyone want to continue this and offer a meaningful definition of Zionism, ie. the novel ideology that started in the 19th century that the world refers to when they say “Zionism”, please go for it.

    That was a very good example of begging the question.

    Also, we don’t really need to define Zionism. It will be quite sufficient for the purposes of this discussion to state clearly the SPECIFIC anti-Torah beliefs and actions you understand to be associated with Zionism. We can then discuss each one individually.

    Non Political
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    I see parody has become the order of the day

    Non Political
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    @ HaKatan and Somejew

    Are you claiming that there are no Torah sources for returning to and building up E”Z before Moshiach? This is a very direct question. Please answer clearly.

    Non Political
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    @ Square Root

    You wrote: “In the 1930s and 1940s, your precious Gedolim told the all Jews to stay in Europe, and NOT go to America. How many thousands of Jews died needlessly, because they listened to the advice of the Gedolim?

    The above statement borders on kfira. It is certainly apikorses.

    in reply to: Anti-Zionists Criticized in Matzav Inbox #2370714
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    @ Square Root

    You have ALOT of work to do before you get
    from: The FIRST MITZVAH that G*D gave to Avraham Avinu was making aliyah by moving; to Eretz Yisrael;
    to: Religious Zionism has a basis in THE TORAH.

    For starters Avrohom Avvinu was a Navi. So, the instructions he received from Hashem where unambiguous. You would have to show that it is equally clear that their is a Mitzva Chiyuvis k’hayom to settle in Eretz Yisroel. You will not be able to do this because, for starters, R’ Chaim HaKohen (one of the Baalai Tosafos) and HaRav Moshe Feinstein ruled that there is not. Now, I am not claiming that other Poskim do not disagree. But the argument directly from Avrohom Avinu is a non-starter.

    I respect that you take the time to call out HaKatan and Somejew on their Orwellian Two Minutes of Hate tantrums. L’man HaEmes, I’m telling you the above does not serve you well in what is otherwise a worthy undertaking.

    in reply to: The antizionism amongst religious Jews has no legitimate detractors #2370619
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    I hear crickets….

    Non Political
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    @ HaKatan and @ Somejew

    Maybe you guys can explain the Ramban’s position re: yishuv E”Y in light of the 3 oaths?

    in reply to: Anti-Zionists Criticized in Matzav Inbox #2370114
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    @ YB

    You wrote: Where is this raavad ? Do you have the exact address please ?

    He probably means the famous Raavid in Hilchos Teshuva about hagshama. It’s not hard to to see why he thinks the Raavid is relevant. Nebach.

    in reply to: Anti-Zionists Criticized in Matzav Inbox #2368940
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    @ somejew

    The problem is that, based on your previous posts, I don’t think you would apply your reasoning if the signature on the bottom is Rabbi Shlomo Aviner or Rabbi Eliezer Melamed. Am I wrong about this?

    in reply to: Anti-Zionists Criticized in Matzav Inbox #2368167
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    @ ard

    I misquoted you. You where calling ZSK a kofer not SR. ZK already preemptively responded to that kind of an attack. You may want to go back and re-read what he wrote and do some soul searching because the klal adam posel b’mumo posel is not metaphorical. But you know this already because you learn gemara, right?

    in reply to: Anti-Zionists Criticized in Matzav Inbox #2368166
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    @ ard

    You wrote: which ikar emunah does someone violate by calling you a kofer

    Since you seem to be accusing SR of being disrespectful towards the Satmar Rebbe you probably meant to call his an apikoris not a kofer.

    Second of all, the fact that a Rav of a particular community is held in high esteem by other Gedolim does not mean that all of Khal Yisroel must learn his seforim or follow his psakim and hadracha. And one certainly doesn’t have to follow the psakim and hadracha of his Chasidim. Asserting this obvious point, as SR has done, is not apikorsis.

    If anything you ought to be more concerned about the blatant disrespect (both expressed and implied) coming from the other side.

    in reply to: Anti-Zionists Criticized in Matzav Inbox #2367574
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    @ ARso

    Thank you for explaining the Har Grizim quote

    in reply to: Anti-Zionists Criticized in Matzav Inbox #2367572
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    @ HaKatan

    You wrote: Non-Political and all the other Zionists

    Nothing in any of my posts would indicate that I am a Zionist (I’m Non-Political 🙂

    You wrote: If you don’t like my explanation of how it is obvious, then you’re welcome to find anyone who argues with the Brisker Rav (and all the others)

    I think you should go back and re-read YB’s last post a couple of times. You need not bother with my post, I don’t think it will help you

    Have a wonderful Shabbos

    in reply to: Anti-Zionists Criticized in Matzav Inbox #2366983
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    @ YB

    You wrote: I do not see in your post any response to my Q…

    Fair enough. I wrote a post showing why HaKatan would hold it rejects #8 The Divine Origin of the Torah (its one of the three regarding which he said “anyone can easily see that establishment of any state before Mashiach comes is a violation of…”

    in reply to: Anti-Zionists Criticized in Matzav Inbox #2366982
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    @ HaKatan

    You wrote: However, anyone can easily see that the establishment of any state before Mashiach comes is a violation of at least…

    No, obviously everyone cannot see that. Your proposition is based on a number of premises which we do not accept. I will spell these out for you.

    You claim a violation of (8) The belief in the divine origin of the Torah

    This is premised on a claim that the Torah clearly prohibits the establishment of a state so to do so must reject the Torah is of Divine origin

    First of all, even if I grant you (and I do not) that such a clear prohibition exists, I submit that the very notion of the 13 ikrim per the Rambam is that one can transgress a particular prohibition and still accept all the Ikrim (including that the Torah is of Divine origin). I am aware that this point is debated in philosophy but that need not concern us here because we are learning the Rambam (not points of dispute in Platonic and Aristotlian epistemology, l’havdil).

    You claim that this clear prohibition has 2 reasons:
    Establishing the State violates the 3 oaths
    Establishing the State embraces secular nationalism (and is therefore kfira or a”z)

    The grounds for rejecting reason 1 have been amply provided in multiple posts on this subject so I see no reason to rehash them here.

    Regarding Reason 2. I understand that you think that Judaism is a religion and that our common ancestry from the Avos, Lashon HaKadosh, and the land of Israel are merely incidental to our Jewish Identity. However, here your position disagrees with R’ Yehuda HaLevi (Kuzari), The Ramban, and the Maharal. Take note that I do not claim that there are no Religious Zionists who embrace secular nationalism. My claim is that it is not necessary to embrace secular nationalism to embrace a Jewish national identity based on classic sources.

    Furthermore, it is not actually necessary to embrace a Jewish national identity to endeavor to establish a state. One can adopt a religion-only Jewish Identity and still do so. This is because, providing that there is no prohibition in establishing a state, one might have practical reasons for so.

    This is all I have time for at the moment

    in reply to: Anti-Zionists Criticized in Matzav Inbox #2366230
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    @ YB

    I am going to respond to your points on behalf of HaKatan (based on things he wrote). He is welcome to correct me if he thinks that I misunderstood or am misrepresenting his position.

    You wrote: All your arguments are against the Zionists who were heretics and lived their life against torah.
    But that was not the Q.

    HaKatan wrote: “Religious Zionists” are of course not what you stated. Rather, as Rav Elchonon wrote, which holds true ever since, the “Religious Zionists” believe in both religion (Torah) and the idolatry of Zionism. They happen to be even more fanatical in their Zionism than are their secular counter-parts, because they worship Zionism “for real”. They literally hold that the “State” and everything about that “State” is holy, a”l.

    “The idolatry of Zionism” means here to identify as a nation primarily based on a common ancestry, culture, language, and land. Furthermore, it means being lead by a political body representing it’s entire constituency (especially the majority secular one), hereafter “The State”. This is Nationalism. Being a secular Nationalist is kfira. Being a religious Nationalist and holding that “The State” is Kodesh is A”Z.

    So per the above: All Zionism = Jewish Nationalism = Kfira or A”Z

    The fact is that common ancestry (being descendants of Avroham, Yitzchok, and Yaacov), language (Lashon HaKadosh), and land (Eretz Yisroel) are not exclusively components of secular Nationalism but are, in fact, crucial components of our Jewish National identity is probably not lost on HaKatan. I think this is why he makes a point of writing in terms of “The State”.

    I rather like your mashal of “ripping the shovel out of their hands”. I think it is a good mashal for what is probably the majority position.

    in reply to: Anti-Zionists Criticized in Matzav Inbox #2366142
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    @ Chaim87

    You wrote: As R Hutner said about Briska rav, “The torah is nisht gegebn uf har grezim”

    This is off the topic but I never heard this quote before. What do you think R Hutner meant by that?

    in reply to: Anti-Zionists Criticized in Matzav Inbox #2365983
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    @ Hakatan

    You wrote: We just read this past Shabbos that Hashem made us into a People at Har Sinai stating that we will be a “mamleches kohanim viGoy kadosh”,

    This pasuk speaks to the status of the Jewish nation (Kadosh) and role of the Jewish Nation (mamlechis Kohanim. There was an existing nation being addressed here, no? But this is a minor point, because I think everyone (who is not secular) agrees that the Torah is essential (as in not incidental) to Jewish Nationhood.

    You wrote: As opposed to being the Zionists’ active redefinition of Judaism (shared by the “Religious Zionists”, other than the “godless” part) to just another European-type godless nation (meaning common land, language and culture, etc.) whose nationhood is based in the portion of the holy land…

    Do you have written evidence from recognized Dati Leumi Roshei Yeshiva to substantiate the above claim? If not, then it’s simply motzeh shem ra. Probably b’shogeg, but motzeh shem ra nevertheless.

    You wrote: While all the gedolim have written that Zionism is against the Torah (and the Brisker Rav – not only the Satmar Rav – wrote that Zionism/its “State” is against “the entire Torah”

    So, is it (1) “all the gedolim” or (2) the Satmar Rebbe and the Brisker Rav,

    You wrote: you have an open example of Zionism being in violation of multiple of the 13 ikkarim (from Chabad org), including:
    5. The imperative to worship G‑d exclusively and no foreign false gods.
    7. The belief in the primacy of the prophecy of Moses our teacher.
    8. The belief in the divine origin of the Torah.
    9. The belief in the immutability of the Torah.
    10. The belief in G‑d’s omniscience and providence.
    11. The belief in divine reward and retribution.
    12. The belief in the arrival of the Messiah and the messianic era.

    Once again, either substantiate your claim that Religious Zionists reject the above ikrim or please do teshuva for motzeh shem ra.

    in reply to: Anti-Zionists Criticized in Matzav Inbox #2365419
    Non Political
    Participant

    @ somejewiknow

    you wrote: “I can’t believe any Jew is calling “70 years old” outdated!

    You are either intentionally or unintentionally misconstruing his meaning.

    in reply to: Anti-Zionists Criticized in Matzav Inbox #2365415
    Non Political
    Participant

    @ HaKatan

    Rav Saadiah Gaon established the Torah principle that the Jews are a people only through the Torah and not a nation like all others. We literally just read about this yesterday”

    This statement is self contradictory. Was it established by R’ Saadiah or is it clear in the Torah itself? Please clarify.

    As an aside, I don’t know a single religious zionist who is of the opinion that the Jewish nation is “a nation like all others”

    Also, one would have to be a very creative individual to find a way to understand the Kuzari, Ramban, and Maharal in a way that trivializes the importance of Jewish Nationhood and Eretz Yisroel. I’m talking here even before the coming of Moshiach.

    in reply to: Hi I’m back 3.0 #2361391
    Non Political
    Participant

    @ CS

    Thank you for posting letter 27 of Iggeres Hakodesh.

    I still don’t see how you take the leap from what is written in the Iggeres Hakodesh to relating to a nistalek in the way you are describing.

    Also, do you have a response to YB re: the Ramban?

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