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RD,
I don’t know how you left Michael Broyde off the list? If he can remember which persona he is using.
I heard from a yungerman who went from BMG to Harvard Law this year that there are 11 yeshiva guys in this years class.
This fellow already has an internship lined up at a very prestigious firm for the coming summer.
People are never buried in cemetaries.
ZD,
Nothing you have written in anyway indicates that R Chaim Ozer made a mistake. The question really is why you keep prattling on when you are wrong. Considering your self infallible is not a Jewish trait, rather it is a catholic trait.
Small facts that you are conveniently omitting;
The people who remained in the towns the Yeshivas ran from were massacred before those in Vilna. So those who fled to Vilna lived and learned longer.
Whole yeshivas were in fact saved from the holocaust.
But facts were never a strong point in any of your arguments, they just tend to get in the way.
If you like, we can post that on Wikipedia for you.
“The author of the Mishna Berurah did NOT wear a black hat.”
Even if this is true, which I doubt, it has nothing to with the statement DaMoshe wrote.
I, for the life of me, cannot understand why you so often post comments that are tangential and meaningless.
He certainly looks smoother with the Botox injections he seems to have had in his face. Not better, just smoother.
ZD,
Fascinating observation.
However, I have never seen people wearing “strimels” or “Beckashers”(sic)at any of the funerals that I have unfortunately attended, even among the most chassidic.
Can you guess why? According to you that would be proof that Jews nowadays do not wear Shtreimlich or Bekeshes, yet that is clearly not the case.
So how do you explain that?
Tierra Sur
ROB,
R Feldman did not retract the above, he said that Lipman is perhaps not a ??? ?????, but he never retracted that Lipman’s outlook is not the outlook of the yeshiva. Rather he is misguided.
What is “leekable”? Is that one of the ???????
I don’t recall the Rosh Yeshiva of Ner Yisroel referring to him as Rabbi. That should tell you something about his standing.
As opposed to crisis, who apparently is afraid of any logical thought at all.
With the aveirah song?
If he would have said that he asked a shaila or he heard a psak, it would have been left at that. But when he presents it as his own psak or thought, it was a legitimate response.
Zd,
I asked a legitimate question. You have not given an answer. If you asked a shaila, why wouldn’t you tell us who made the psak. Maybe the rav was meikel for you, but is not lechatchila.
Or maybe you are not providing the correct reason. Why are you so hesitant to provide meaningful information?
Zd,
Would please share with us a copy of your smicha and let us know where you received shimush for psak?
Chuck,
How can you say this “But it is indeed ironic that some people who will run someone out of Orthodoxy for a “possible” violation of one of Rambam”, (emphasis mine)
When you say this:”When did I say that I supported Rabbi Dr. Farber’s remarks? I didn’t even read most of them!”
Besides, you most certainly did try to support Farber’s remarks on Popa’s LOL thread.
And you last comment is either foolish or completely disingenuous, quite possibly a good mixture of both. There is no one, other than you possibly, who did not agree that Farber’s comments were plain apikorsus. The minhag of saying Machnesei Rachamim has been dealt with many times over the years.
Don’t think that you are suddenly being mechadesh something.
Ironic comment from someone who supported Zev Farber’s remarks.
Edit to above:
but it is not my business, so I will NOT pursue this further
I think you must have misunderstood the contract.
In my experience, limited as it maybe, the contracts talk about deposits not being refunded if you pull out. In addition, payments are not completed ahead of time, so I am sure the full amount has not been paid.
There are a number of other items that seem off about this story, but it is not my business, so I will pursue this further, nor will I state as fact any assumptions as others do.
ZD,
Yet you have no clue at all what happened, and you are ready to pass judgment.
It is great to be able to make such determinations without a clue.
Hmmmm.
I feel bad for you, it is terribly disappointing.
Oomis,
Interesting comment. Are you not doing exactly that yourself? Granted, no individual has been named, but you are passing judgement when hearing only one side of a story.
I continue to wonder why they are so cavalier about what ROB wrote while being in such a huff about writing hash-m with a dash.
I don’t understand why this is being dredged up again. There was a thread about this in the past.
I will note that threads that start with “I heard” are usually half quotes and has no bearing on the person posing the supposition.
If this is a situation that applies to poster, the absolute worse thing to do is get advise from a forum such as this. ????.
Wolfe,
So it is ok for ROB to be irate about some one who wrote something that is completely ok, but he cannot be taken to task for writing something heinous, even if it was unintentional? Regardless if we could have deciphered what he meant, he clearly was not careful in what he wrote. He was irate that the person used a dash in a word the ROB felt should not have a dash.
This gives us a clear picture of what ???? meant when they say ????? ????? ??? ????? ???. It cannot be clearer.
And it is telling that neither he nor Gavra are horrified but what he actually wrote, regardless of his intention. He should be horrified that he published those words that are now available for eternity attributed to ROB.
And this cannot in any way be considered an ????.
So you all missed the REAL issue.
ROB,
You wrote what you wrote, it would seem to be at a minimum to be a Freudian slip.
You should examine what led to that Freudian slip, and what teshuva could you possibly do.
And there you have it. All the typical cynics. Finally they come out and say their real feelings. It is so horrible I will not copy, but look at ROBs last line.
He finally spelled out in no uncertain terms what he and his ilk feel. Oy. Oy. And this gets published?
VM
“And yet, WIY, it seems we do… “
I am sorry to hear that you think that a Kol Koreh has more weight than a posuk in the Torah.
According to the iggeres haramban, midas anavah
Charlie,
I cannot for the life of me figure out how your comment is responsive to Toi.
“Gedolim have sat next to women on subways in Europe and America for over a century.”
Have you seen this (Other than Avi Weiss)?
It is well known that R Shlomo Zalman Auerbach would stand up if a women sat next to him. (he did it in a respectful manner, none the less he would get up)
Goq,
I happen to know a number of families blessed with many children. North of a dozen. Anecdotally, your comment about a lack of individuality is way, way off base.
In these families that I personally know, the children all have distinct personalities and are accomplished in a number of ways. you could not in any way refer to them as group mentality, they each are so individual.
You are making an assumption, I am reporting my observations. And based on my observations, there is no basis at all to your suggestion.
MZ and ZD,
A) I am sure the chilonim would be horrified to hear that they are not part of a community. That is what they argue all the time when frum Jews move into their neighborhood, that they are upsetting the community.
B)Granted we have to hold ourselves to a higher standard, however, all these media people and a goodly number of commenters feel THEY are better people because they are modern and “aware” of what is going on. If so it is the height of hypocrisy for them to use the claim that we answer to a higher authority as their basis for criticizing frum people when they do not do so when it is a non frum person, like themselves.
ZD,
Sorry if I misunderstood your comment, the way it was written was unclear.
ZD,
“If you have ever watched some of my posts,I have generally rallied against going too far to the right.”
It is very unclear as what you consider to the right, so that your definition of too far to the right can be understood.
I will note, that there are many, many more who unfortunately have strayed because they have not set up gedarim and were michshal in all sorts of aveiros to the point that they were no longer observant at all.
They also became so entrenched that they look down on anyone who is observant, because why not do whatever you feel like at any given moment.
Many time there are gedarim that are instituted because, for the overwhelming majority, they serve a wonderful purpose and have saved many, unfortunately there have been a few for whom the geder was not good.
Does that mean as a policy a community should not adopt gedarim which are very beneficial to the group as whole even though there may be a few korbonos? Who hopefully can be supported with individual intervention?
All of medicine is predicated on this, as is all government policy.
ZD,
It sounds more like your friend is not a decent person, nothing to do with chumras.
VM,
“How many shmuzen do regular yeshiva guys get about how terrible zionism or lubavitch, or YCT are, despite not being shayach to those topics at all?”
I don’t know, how many? I do not recall any from my days in Yeshiva, nor have my children reported any to me. So I am not aware.
But either way, the difference was appropriately addressed in earlier comments.
“Where did I make up the story
I posted where to get it. Some do not like the NY Post, but It was clearly there.”
What was there was NOT what you said it was. As was pointed out a bunch of times already.
You said there was a ban ion bike riding. The Prust article said they were forbidden from RIDING BIKES TO SCHOOL. A completely different situation.
ZD,
Based on all sorts of stuff that is reported all over, I would think this is not limited to “chareidim”.
However, I will say that the sensationalizing, and the inclusion by “professional” media, certainly in Israel seems to be biased against chareidim.
Do you see chilonim labeled “chilonim” each time they are reported for their misdeeds?
Just saying that we should be held to higher standards is not a legitimate claim. Because those media outlets certainly do consider themselves at a lower standard. Unless, truly they do, and they are just excited with the dog bites man stories.
“I’m sorry if I gave the impression that I thought it was. I think our standards should be higher.”
This presupposes that there is anything at all wrong with this. I do not think there is anything wrong with this. (Perhaps if this were the ONLY time the person contributed anything)
“I think ideally the two should be separate. A person should decide on what he will indulge independently of his tzeddakah allocation and priority.”
I look at it differently, that these people are supporting a worthy cause even when they are indulging. To take it beyond just hedonism. (Ask R Levi Yitzchok)
“On a related point, where is your derech eretz?”
Irony? Related? Related to what?
“When some Jews make a ban that is unnecessary and harmful, that should be troubling to Jews everywhere.”
Do you take such strident tones when some Jews start fabricating kulas, ignoring basic halacha? I haven’t noted such reaction from you here.
“Since when has the New York Post known anything about the frum community in ny?”
They try to paint anything religious in the worst light, it tells me something that this is what they came up with, but you are correct, I never consider the Prust as a reliable source. However, ZD mentioned it as a proof/maybe even the source of his story. It was a direct response to that.
“I take issue with it because kol yisrael areivim zeh lazeh, and I care that Jews everywhere remain halachically committed and intelligent. When some Jews make a ban that is unnecessary and harmful, that should be troubling to Jews everywhere.”
However, it is ridiculous to take such a stance on a supposed ban that, who says is harmful, and as far as this thread has been going on, nothing that shows it even exists.
I know that there are commenters who take the stance that , “who cares if it is true, its enough that it might, perhaps be true”. I have seen such posts and comments and of course that is rishus. But in addition, you have a safek if there is something here that You consider bad, but you do not know it to be true (maybe in your heart of hearts you wish it to be true) yet there is a clear din of being dan lkaf zechus, a vaday, which outweighs your safek of kol yirsroel.
“get your comments moderated so often? “
I do? I am aware of only one instance of a comment being moderated. Perhaps you can point me to another instance.
Relax?, I am fairly relaxed, but Kol Yisroel Areivim Zeh Lozeh and I must protest when there is injustice. And this is a vaday.
Irrational,
“You aggressively complain and holler that no ban exists for assuring bike riding in any frum community.”
I do? Where? I just have not heard of one nor have I seen evidence of any such ban. The OP was based on there being such a ban, well, I am from Missouri.
“Because chas v’shalom any community would do something that you disagree with.”
I don’t really think it is negative to assume that communities as a whole do the right thing. (meisitim u’meidichim aside) I can eaily say you are wrong but I would not say that your behavior and outlook reflects on your whole community, certainly since I do not know what community that is.
“If there are frum communities that assur bike riding, I (and many others) take issue with that”
Why? It has no bearing on you.
And even the NY Prust, which is no dan lkaf zechus could only say that is was talking about riding to school. Which someone like me, who is a parent, can understand being a concern. (V’nishmartem me’od l’nafshoseychem is also a halacha)
“Of course you would bring Farber into this, when he and yct have absolutely nothing to do with the inyan at hand. Classic case of you ignoring the issues and beating up on a guy everyone admits is an kofer b’ikar”
It was germane to a point I was making relevant to ZDs comment, perhaps you can’t hold cheshbon beyond a short sound bite.
DY,
Such fundraising is not relegated to Jewish Fundraising.
And this way a person who was looking to enjoy himself may spend the extra money to support a cause as well. Certainly if it is a cause to which he may have limited exposure.
ZD,
Your examples actually proves the fallacy of that supposition.
If you would look at the comments about Cholov Yisroel, you would see that the overwhelming majority of comments were saying that there is no reason to be makpid, and there were responses explaining why it is a good reason to be makpid, however, I do not recall seeing anyone who is makpid putting down those who aren’t makpid, as were a goodly number of the comments by those who think you SHOULD NOT be makpid.
Huge difference.
Another similar case is if someone choses to use a specific hasgacha, there were some here who went off the deep end, to the extent that they would BAN an item, such as Twizzlers, if it had an additional level of hashgacha.
And most of those taking on additional chumras are not “veering” from the Torah, they base their chumrah on general halacha, they may be carrying it a bit further than you would. (Do not bring in Burka Women to try to prop your argument, the problem with some of their adopted extremism specifically contradicts other halacha) On the other hand, SOME of the meikilim cast aside normative halacha and search for any available possible kula even when adopting such a kula is in contradiction to other kulas.
In addition, schools of thought that specifically teach hereticsm (think Farber) are open to criticism lest there are those that would fall into their trap.
And, to specifically address bike riding, I do not understand how schools not letting children bike to school can create damage to the community, or any community at that.
JFem,
This is just a Gilligan Tour. You know, three or four hours. With meals and entertainment. It is a fundraiser. Nothing wrong. I hope they will be successful and that everyone will have good time while helping a worthwhile cause.
ZD,
Unless you see a different article, (and I shamefully admit that I looked it up, and of course the web site is sickening) because there is no information there at all.
It talks about biking to school, not a general ban.
There is some misinformation somewhere.
Irrational,
I said that as far as he is concerned there is no ban. And if his story is from the NY Prust, that says much worse things about him than any ban may say about any community.
The important point is that meaningless conjecture solely for the purpose of putting people down, for something that clearly has no impact on you is gross chilul hashem.
feh on you
There is no evidence that children from smaller families suffer less tragedies.
The comment, to me , sounds like sour grapes.