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Of note is that Andrew Weiss says that he let his membership lapse. Similar to his fealty to Torah and its Mesorah.
I forwarded to the cRc, Ok and OU who they list as certifiers.
ZD,
“To say there arent jews like this is just a lie, There are even frum or formerly frum jews like this. Some of the people who go OTD, go OTD for this reason”
T613T never said, nor implied that there are not Jews like that. Nothing he or she said is a lie at all.
In fact, that people go of the derech because they want to indulge these ta’avos is in and of itself proof that the Jewish Moral code rejects this and that we have to separate ourselves from accepting such behaviors as the norm and as moral.
Your rant is completely misdirected.
Perhaps you like to feel your self a man of the world and feel that this not moral failing of the US, therefore you had to make your comment, but anyone with a bit of decency (as defined by the Torah) and sense understands clearly what T613T was saying.
Avi K.,
“it should be further clarified that gentile women in the news are not over on anything.”
1) You have pretty big shoulders to say that they are not being over on ANYTHING.
2) Even if that were the case, What about 2 Men and what about Jewish women. Everyone here knows that the reform, conservative and even the OO were big promoters of this (I have seen the comments of the honchos of the OO movement, this is not a matter of debate).
3) The tragedy of the Decision was not about anyone being over, the same people who are now going to be over on mishkav zachor were doing so before the Court’s decision The issue is that the with this decision the millennial old definition of marriage and the family unit has been changed. That is huge, regardless if it is two gentile women or unfortunately two Jewish men.
4) This redefinition of what is marriage, what is a family unit and what is the societal norm has a profound negative impact on the morals of society.
Before long, and I am sure it is already on the agenda, any loopholes to the law that exist for religion will be done away with and this “right” will be used to harm people and groups that practice traditional religion.
The US was founded, and the constitution was written, to protect people’s right to practice their religion. These agitators have come along and created a new right which they now use to replace what was a basic right guaranteed by the constitution.
Separation of Church and state does not mean one cannot practice religion, it means that he government cannot interfere in how someone practices religion. It is meant as a protection of that right of individuals. I guarantee that this new law will be used to usurp the rights of people practicing religion and will result in many breaches in the real separation of church and state.
Charlie,
The ones that did not vote for him because he was a polytheist, nor were the reasons they voted for based on that.
Contrast that to why you and the other radicals voted for Mr Obama. You are really the one who should be bowing your head in shame.
According to Wikipedia she was a notorious cross dresser and that’s why she wore such a hat. Not because it was feminine.
That’s also why the feminists wore it, because it’s not feminine.
Further, it completely change after prince whomever of England starting wearing it. When men who wanted to look like men were the only ones wearing it.
So it was never really begged isha, and it totally changed from even being a shemetz of begged isha long before it became popular by yidden.
So it is disingenuous to call it begged isha besides being silly.
“Myself, a Chabad, I know more stores of the Steipler Gaon’s life and halachic responsa of Rabbi Feinstein than ashkanazis. I remember their astonishment. Quite funny, actually. “
Very funny. Since when is Chabad not Ashkenazi?
“Probably less than a century. Prior to then it was indeed Beged Ishah and in fact it was a symbol of decadent lifestyles.”
It has only been called a mesorah by GAW.
Your silly notion about begged isha has already been completely disproven before.
I think there al lot bigger questions about a lot that you do then someone wearing a fedora.
1) I make no assumptions that you go to any shul at all.
2) I guess we can let the others here determine if you changed your whole thesis here.
3) You were the first one to bring up a Fedorah at all in this thread. No one mentioned a mesorah for a Fedora except perhaps you. You stared with Charlie’s silly and mistaken comment about begged isha.
4) Nowhere in my first comment did I mention what type of hat I think it’d respectful to wear. It could be a biber hut or a chulent tup or another up hat. I never referred to what type of hat to wear to shul. My sole diyuk was relating to the first section where “the hat” was referring back to your comment. But I made no mention of what type of hat to wear.
5) You were pretty specific on the pilleus corunutus. To the exclusion of anything other than a skullcap.
6) I did not say whether you do or don’t wear a Fedora (even though it would be quite hypocritical considering the statement you made), but you do admit to my observation that you have an issue with a fedora. You say why, but that is your extrapolation. Made solely by you.
“Why is a car necessary if public transportation is available? “
Assuming they are travelling together and they would like to converse, then a car is much more practical.
Additionally, public transportation may be available, but that does not mean it is convenient, for either party, and this is just more respectful.
GAW,
It said “the” hat, and a fedora is the hat that the comments were about. And a fedora is exactly what Charlie always makes his silly comment about. And it is silly, because it was worn by Bernahrdt, who was a notorious cross-dresser and this is what she wore when cross dressing. It was meant as a men’s hat, not a woman’s. And it is clear that it is not begged isha, because men were wearing them and not women (Unless they are cross dressing)long before the fedora became the most popular hat style by bnei yeshivos.
Now that we addressed your and Charlie’s ridiculous claims about begged isha, let’s ask why you are ok with the pilleus cornutus, which Jews were often made to wear in public so that they would be identified as Jews. Like the yellow stars the Nazis made Jews wear.
If you were honest, you would own up and say what your real issue is with a Fedora. We all know that it has nothing to do with begged isha.
Last, it is very nice of you to deny me stating my feelings in a comment section. Yet you have the temerity to call MY comment gratuitous?
Hakohen,
About the hat being ??? ???, GAW is just repeating Charlie Hall’s oft mentioned nonsense.
However, I will admit that there are synagogues where it seems that it is only the women who wear hats. Perhaps that is why he is making such a mistake.
I think it is respectful for a man going to shul to wear a hat.
To quote the Satmar Rebbe ZL. ??? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ??????? ??? ? ????????. That obviates the issue.
It would seem common sense not to post pictures on line that had nontzniyus stuff in the background. Just like you wouldn’t post something that was otherwise stomach churning.
IRC section 117. Qualified Tuition Reduction.
Lesschumras is incorrect.
ZD,
It seems you should consider your own advice.
Syag,
Not sure what you mean. However, on this thread it makes a difference.
Perhaps in this case, ???? ?? ??? , is appropriate.
I have an iPhone. The iPhones have a SIM card in a slot on the side. I was told that all iPhones are unlocked. At least on Verizon.
More than one travel cell type service told me that and instead of renting a separate phone for my trip, I just rented a SIM card.
Worked very well. Even got an US number as well. I forwarded my regular US number to that number and people from the U.S. We’re able to just dip my regular number to reach me.
Have you called one of the services? I went Eretz Yisroel for vacation and I was able to just swap in a different SIM card for my Israel trip. And changed it back when I returned. My phone is on Verizon.
ZD,
But your comment presupposes that someone who speaks Yiddish is less likely to be certified. And the fact is that there are many hundreds with all the certification and qualifications. Including not just masters in special Ed but with additional specialty certifications and PhDs as well. And I am not referring to deconstructionist rabbis. I am talking chasidish men and women. With all the levush.
Just because some speaks English or Spanish does not make the person certified or qualified to be a teacher.
ZD,
You seem to operate under the misconception that just because someone speaks Yiddish and it may even be their mother tongue that they are not qualified to be teachers and do not have the certifications.
Anyone in the field can tell you that you are greatly mistaken.
BTW, their is great demand that there should be Spanish translators at the board meetings in ERSCD. there is no such demand for Yiddish translators. And all the meetings are held in English. So is it correct that Spanish should get priority over Yoddish? There are more Yiddish speaking students in the district than Spanish. By a ratio of 2 to one at least.
ZD,
Why are you so hung up on Pashtun?
There is a far cry between davenng in a class and not being concerns with religion. Certainly there are times where the situation may require services that are not in a Jewish background, but parents are not doing it as a preference or a disregard for religion.
And children with spectrum disorders are very different than children who have no cognition or are severely developmentally disabled.
It is incorrect to aay the children are unaware.
ZD,
“The kids in this class religion doesnt really matter as they are lower functioning”
That is a dad’s perspective? That religion really doesn’t matter because your child is lower functioning?
And yet there are many agencies with residential programs that were started by parents becUse they were concerned about the religious perspective even if their child was lower or almost completely non functioning. I know of several such agencies.
“Student Loan crisis is from people who insist on dorming to out of state schools that cost $40-$50K a year and the jobs they get nowhere pay what they will get in a job
SUNY or CUNY in state tution is about $6000 a year”
I thought you said that ERCSD has to get the kids into Ivy League schools.
SYAG,
The cost of providing the services for Special Ed is easily obtainable from the dust rictus financial statements and the financials differentiate between payments to other schools/ School districts and the cost of providing special education in their own schools.
The costs comparison I was referring to is the difference between the costs of providing the services internally, not contracted out to the cost in the private school.
GAW,
“Nisht – when you said that it is cheaper (from the situations you spoke of), do you mean that the amount of tuition alocated by their district is less then we would actually need for their education, or do you mean that the amount they themselves spend per kid when servicing them is less?”
The school board pays less to the private school than it costs to provide the same services in the public school. It also costs the private school less for the same services, they don’t have all the union costs which would be crippling.
The private school is not making money on this since their reimbursement is based on the CFR filed with SED. In addition the private school provides yeshiva classes as well, which are not paid by the ERCSD. Unfortunately for the school, the parents of the overwhelming majority parents do not have anywhere near the resources to pay for the costs of the Yeshiva part of the education. Which is not covered at all by the district. The school still provides for these children and has to beg for funds to remain a viable institution. No one is making money lay off these schools. But there are many people who lose sleep and are under constant stress to make sure that the school remains open for the children. Outing their personal health and resources at risk.
“e sort of financial planning so not everyone has to go to a community college, the City and State universities are fairly inexepensive and good”
I guess you have not been reading about student loan crisis.
ZD,
“Ramapo High School has a 63% graduation rate in 2014
Edward R Murrow A high School in Flatbush Brooklyn graduation rate is 81% (I dont know the name of the High School in Williamsburg or Boro Park, but Ive passed Murrow many times so I know that one and its in a jewish park of Brooklyn)”
What is your point? Did you consider the demographics of the two schools? In ER well over 90% of the student body is Hispanic and Black who were not born in the U.S. There is a huge percentage who are ESL track. There is even a large number who have just arrived in the U.S. At 16+ years of age who show up to just a few classes and then don’t finish because they don’t know English and intend on finding jobs right away. The chancellor pointed this out, but the activists got upset because it wasn’t politically correct even though it was factual.
That is really what he the greatest impact on graduation rates along with parent apathy.
ZD,
You commented “The guy whose kids AP calculus class was cancelled , Their band was cancelled and the basketball team was cancelled and therefore has no extra curricular activity and will likely have great difficulty getting into an Ivy League school”
When did getting into an Ivy league school become part of the mandated services to be provided?
I have to pay the county college for my children’s AP courses, why can’t they do just the same? They do not pay regular tuition and there area even tutoring programs. There should be some investment by the parents as well.
Besides, that is really not the reason why these kids will no
ZD,
“And you have to go to an a beaurocrat who thinks religous schools are nonsense and when they refuse you have to convince a arbritor that private schools are better than public schools and again many of them do not belive in relgious schools and certainly do not believe in segregated schools (in the relgious sense)”
The special education that is provided in separate schools for the most part are for children with severe disabilities. Including leaning, physical and emotional disabilities. I have dealt with a good number of excellent special education schools/programs run by orthodox Jews. A number run by chasidim. Not one of them was a segregated school. They all services both boys and girls. I have never seen a segregated program. The school in KJ service both Genders, I know several schools in Boro Park and Williamsburg that are run by Chasidim with beards and peyos and their schools have both boys and girls in the classes.
Your assumption that the reason why Jewish Parents want other options than the public schools for their children is because they want gender segregation is a specious assumption without any basis in fact or reality.
GAW,
“I’m trying to figure out what exactly a school district is mandated to supply/pay for private schools”
Just to clarify, the School District do not supply or pay for the schools. The provide these services to all students in a district.
Busing is not a service to the school, it is providing a way for students to get to school.
Special education is provided to students who need it. There are times when the provider most suited to service a specific child is not a public school. There are hundreds of private special education providers in NYC that are not part of the public school system who are paid by NYC Board of Education. Much of them for services that NYC BoE prefers to contract out. These are not costs of the private schools (the schools’ costs) that are paid for by the school board.
I know for a fact that when children are placed in a Jewish special education school in East Ramapo, the amount paid for the students does not pay for any religious studies. The cost for the religious studies part is carved from what is billed. (And the cost is less than the public schools internal cost for providing the services). The religious education program is paid for by the parents and fundraising.
In short, these are mandated services to CHILDREN in the district, regardless of which schools they chose to attend.
Syag,
Thanks for demonstrating Joseph’s point.
ZD,
You direct your comment to the Monitor, if one is ultimately appointed. He is the one who will have no accountability and can do as pleases.
I am sure he will find your cliche enlightening.
“Tchum Shabbos wasnt an issue at Belmont. There are houses on the other side of the Cross Island certainly less than a mile from the track and there are houses directly to the South of Belmont an Im sure to the east as well (I drive on the Cross Island alot so I am familar with that area as seen from the Cross Island)”
So a mile is the shiur for t’chum? This is radically new interpretation of halacha. 70 Amos is the determining measure, not a mile.
ZD,
“People who live in East Ramapo and send their kids to public school have an equal right to demand what they think they deserve. Just like the charedim want seperate buses, they want Art and Music.”
As clearly explained above, and understood by other posters here, the issue is not separate busing. It is busing period. And it is an issue as to what is mandated, that means required by law, versus what is not mandated.
“Its funny how someone demands AP Calculus is an “activist” and someone who demands Busing to yeshiva is no” (sic)
The position of the activists, as clearly demonstrated is not AP calculus for the students. Because they have no children in the schools and do not even live in East Ramapo. Their activism is purely to deny services to the orthodox children. Read their rhetoric. And no one is running about demanding busing, it is provided because it is mandated by law. Remember, dina dimalchusa. Which is hardly funny.
“BTW NYC does NOT provide busing for most students in the city so its not mandatory.”
Fantastic argument, however it is completely wrong. The law is that busing is mandated for all students in NYS except for large cities, which I believe means over 100,000 students, which then define their own busing eligibility. (From what I’ve been told by those who deal with these items, it only applies to NYC and Buffalo) Not one of the activists is denying that the busing is mandated, they want to change that and take away these services.
“Most Public schools have extra curricular activies its not an “extra item” “(sic)
BY definition, it is not part of the regular required curriculum. They may be fantastic and everyone would want to provide the program, but if there is no money, the first to go are the non mandated items. NYS Dept. of Education itself told ERCSD to cut extra curricular programs because of budget shortfalls. Even you say “Most” if it is a requirement, why wouldn’t all have the programs?
ZD,
“The issue isnt bussing, its seperate busing which costs extra because many times the same buses have to do almost the same route at least twice one for the boys and one for the girls.”
A convenient lie by the “activists”.
You probably are aware that there are separate schools for boys and girls. Thus, how would one route serve both boys and girls, that have to be at separate schools at the same time. Schools that are not in the same are at all.
What about the busing that is paid for public school students that go to school outside the district?
“Art Music and Athletics are not extras, they are very important to the community unfortunatly the frum community downplays these things , but it doesnt mean the other communties . In fact there is a state requirement for Art and music in the curriculum.”
There were specific items that NYSED instructed ERCSD to cut from their budget to balance the budget, specific “Extra-Curricular” items. Do you know what extra-curricular means?
“As far as special ed, generally those students are usually just educated in public schools, however in Ramapo they are usually bused to Kiryat Joel (The frum ones) and The cost is about double what it would cost to educate them in the regular public schools”
This is wholly untrue. In fact one of special ed schools that does receive funding and is a frequent target of the “activists” (as defined earlier) costs the ERCSD SIGINICANTLY less per student than what the costs of providing those services in the public school system itself costs. Significantly.
And there is a lot of money paid to other districts for East Ramapo residents that attend schools in different districts, including out of state that are for regular public school students (this is all in the public financial statements). There is no reason why paying the public school district in KJ would be any different.
You really are completely unaware of reality. You are completely way off base.
I am not sure why ZD’s last comment remains, while a response showing his suppositions to be entirely incorrect was not posted.
?
GAW,
The Agudah’s point is that they should do the right thing, not what is easier.
Such an excuse itself proves that the monitor is inappropriate.
I am sure the Board of ERCSD would not be allowed to use a reason for doing something.
GAW,
The board has said time and again that they have no issue with monitoring, they are under significant monitoring already. The OSC monitors all school districts and that is besides having an outside audit form come in and audit their books each. (The firm that audits the ERSCD is well known and regarded in the field. They are not like the LI firms that had an issue years back. They had even said they could deal with a monitor who “MONITORS”, but a monitor that can at will do as he/she pleases and who was not selected by the voters in the district is unacceptable and unconscionable. There is no prescribed action and/or analysis and documentation that the monitor would have to do to veto or make their own decision. It is in effect a dictatorship. And I am sure that any issues with the monitors decisions would be place at the feet of the board and the monitor would have no accountability.
And you are being utterly disingenuous if you were to say you do understand why that would be so.
ZD,
It is clear that you are completely unaware of the facts.
“Against public schools and try to eliminate it”? Where do you eve get this from?
Even the hateful so calls Ctivists, such as the ??? Ari Hart, makes no such claim. And his rant are full of lies and inaccuracies.
The real picture is that the state funding formula is highly flawed because there are mandated services (That means required by law) that the district must provide to all students, those in public AND in non-public schools and the formula only accounts for those in public schools.
There is also a cap, by state law, to the amount that school taxes can be raised each year. After paying for mandated services, such as busing and special education, the remaining budget does not allow for unlimited Extra Curicular programs and certain capital expenditures must be delayed as well.
If you read the “Activists” rhetoric (and they are activists like the Aryan Brotherhood are activists) you would see that they want no services at all to go to children who are on non-public schools. Not busing and not special education. This is all on their web sites. They use the budget shortfall for the district as an opportunity for to express their thinly veiled hate of the Orthodox Jews. And the overwhelming majority of the activists are not even from the district. Even Meryl Tisch, she would rather write an op-ed full of gross inaccuracies rather than own up that her agency has completely messed up the funding formula.
But you somehow managed to make a more egregious claim than even these so called activists. It must be because you really are clueless about the facts and situation.
I had noticed earlier that there were a number of donations in red with strange amounts and very small amounts. It seems that those were donations that were made to be applied to more than one entity. Hence the strange amounts because it was divided over several charities.
How about posting LH in English in the YWN Coffee Room, is that ok?
It is a case in point that we don’t necessarily say something is kosher just because one person says so.
At the CRC Mesorah dinner, I believe that swordfish was served, however there was a caveat that it was not appropriate for all to eat.
Was this a fundraiser? Or was it supposed to an event in and of itself? It seems that it was just to be some form of “education” program. Which they solicited sponsorships for.
I doubt that they really could have made money on the food itself. It must be pretty expensive to acquire these unusual foods, certainly in kosher varieties.
Further to the point, reading the menu, other than the strangeness of the combinations, it did not appear that there was anything on the menus that it was surprising to find out that it was kosher.
To ZD,
Your comment above “When it comes to Kashruth,w e generally hold that if one frum jew holds something is Kosher, you can eat it.” Is misstated/misinformed. That is not what ?? ??? ???? ???????? means. Nor is it what establishes mesorah. A case in point is swordfish.
The legitimacy of Obama was not at issue, as far as I know. It was if he was actually born in the U.S., which is required for a U.S. president. 😉
My comment is a refutation of CharlieHalls assertion that we should hire Obama because 69 Million voted for him. And that is a bogus assertion. Which I amply proved. Aside from the fact that the question was whether we would hire him. Which PBA and Barry very ably responded to.
charliehall
“69 million Americans voted to give him a job.”
Which means that 166 million plus eligible voters did not.
Just an observation that I have made.
There are those who criticize chasidim for being as makpid on tznius as they are. And very often the comments have very much a feminist bent to them.
However, it is clear that the Chasidic men are as makpid on themselves, because the very same brilliant people criticize the Chasidic men for wearing black coats in the summer.
Vda’l
Health,
The fact is that a limp is not the sole defining characteristic of a handicapped person. They may have a marriage handicap in addtition to the physical handicap that prevents shidduchim from being considered.
Wouldn’t you be setting yourself up for heartache if you would marry someone who is “handicapped for marriage”?
DY,
Your’s would be a better question on the “Going to EY for a date” thread.