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Sam,
Have you ever been in Kiryas Yoel? Let alone after shkiah on Friday night.
“DY: That is not true. I have met major Rabbonim who, though they don’t publicly say it, won’t have Chassidish wine or Shechitah. Some of the names might shock you,”
I would venture to say, and I’m probably right, that the chassidshe hashgocha and shechita they won’t eat is Lubavitcher and the reason they won’t eat is specific to Lubavitch and is not because it is chassidsh.
I am sure the Shomer Shabbos Shul in Boro Park will have a number of minyanim
“I never do that. It is asur to do so. “
At least when chareidim have a chumra, it is based in Halacha.
“I have never seen a MO family NOT give all their children Hebrew names.”
So says Charlie.
“However, she is anything but shomer negiah as she is a doctor! She has to touch patients dozens of times every day. Pikuach nefesh trumps any and all tzniut concerns.”
1) Who says that ????? ??? trumps ANY AND ALL tzniut concerns? There are some that are ???? ??? ?????.
2) Every time someone goes to a doctor is a case of ????? ???? I highly doubt that the instances of ????? ??? are more than a ???? ????? unless you are working in emergency department or critical care.
3) I wonder if your wife appreciates that you said that she is not ????? ??????. Are you calling her an avaryon? And you are proud that she is not shomer?
“Many MO’s do give their kids jewish names, Just not Yiddish names Like bearish or Fraida. They will give them more Hebrew names like Moshe or Chava”
In my experience it has been the MO who have had the most unusual combinations of Yiddish names, such as Zanvil Shepsil or Chuna Freydil or so on. I suspect it is so because they give the names they may remember from some old grandfather on one side and another on another side. They really don’t note the discordance of the combination since they have no intention of ever calling the child by anything other than a secular name.
Sam,
First your comment about a posek saying it is muttar is unsubstantiated. However regardless, that is my the point. They do not say it is muttar BECAUSE THEY ARE CHAREIDIM. Which is the point. It does appear that ther individuals who say (I am not ascribing this to any rabbis) who say that can do things because they are Modern.
Huge difference.
“Why is it that people look at the MO people who don’t follow the rules and claim they represent the “true” MO, but chareidim who don’t follow the rules are deemed the exceptions?”
Perhaps, and I am just hazarding a guess, because there are those who say “we are not shomer” because we are mordern. (The whole term shomer negia as an option is somewhat bothersome) or we eat “out” because we are modern.
You can see similar comments made here by certain posters who say they are not “Cheradi”.
I don’t think you would find someone identifying as charedie saying something is mutter because they are charedie.
Yes I know the usual culprits will say that “but charedim do this or that” but that is not saying something is mutter to you strictly because you consider yourself chareidi.
ZD,
Your outrage and using that to condemn kapporos is what is wrong. So this fellow lost his cool and made obscene gesture. Ok. He is a teenager working bein hazmanim. Not a nice thing, but nowhere near the chilul Hashemite you are making it not nearly as terrible as the anti kapporos agitators make it. And you have gleefully teamed up with them.
You want to know what this is? It’s pure Pallywood. And that’s what you are so enamored of.
To Syag, Shtika is a fine Mida. No one said what this boy did was nice, however it was certainly provoked. The agitators do not stand nicely by. They only had the camera pointed one way. It is sad that there could possibly be Jews here who call themselves from who are campaigning against and minhag Yisroel that has been practiced for many centuries. But you are sooo enlightened.
Nebach.
Sam,
So I was able to get a ????? and look at the actual loshon. I surprised how badly you misquoted.
Here it is;
?? ?????? ???? ?? ?????? ??????, ??? ???? ??? ?????? ????? ????? ?? ????? ??????.
“If you need to make an obscene gesture at someone for a Mitzvah , you lost whatever zchus there is for the mitzvah . There is never permission to do that. it was a tremendous Chilul Hashem that picture “
Classic diversion.
A worker was being harassed he flipped the terrorists “the bird” (I guess that is really sort of appropriate :0 ) and that is what YOU think is the Chillul Hashem.
But making a tummlt wuith the media and all while trying to stop a long standing minhag yisroel does not bother you.
You have some really mixed up priorities.
Sam,
You are wrong. I am telling you what I’ve seen by R Moshe Feinstein and R Belsky.
ZD,
“Then just use the money and skip using a real chicken that will get thrown in the garbage”
But that is not the minhag. The minhag is to schlug on a chiken. Nowhere in the lashon does it say “zeh hatarnagol yeilech letzdakah”
Get an English translation of kapporos and see what it actually says.
Shtika,
Actually, nowhere does it say that the chickens are supposed to go to tzedakah as pat of kapporos. Historically people would eat the chiken themselves.
Besides that you are assuming they keep the geshochtene chickens lying around. In my many years of observing kapporos where they shechita the chikens, there is also a whole group of people butchering and processing the chikens immediately and most are used that day or for yom Tov. ZD made a comment which had no bearing in reality.
“Chickens left out in the hot sun spoil and have to be thrown out. You need to process them quick enough so the meat remains fresh.
Throwing them in a bin and leaving them there for hours spoils the meat”
So?
What does this have to do with anything?
ZD,
That is not your problem because kashrut agencies did no such thing. What happened was that Rabbi Elefant responded to a question from a reporter. And he said that they would be open to certifying canabis infused products for medical usage. Such items would need hashgocha and the OU was approached by the producer and the producer told such to the media.
Of course, the so called Jewish Reporter at the NY Prust made the story into something else, which swallowed and are now regurgitating.
ROB,
Thank you for incorrect information.
A quick Google search indicates that there are detergents that call themselves natural that have ingredients that can come from non kosher sources and there is nothing about these that would seem they are not edible for a dog. They do say they are non-toxic. I am not sure what the halacha would be if a table cloth or towel was washed with a detergent made with real tarfus or chelev and hot food fell on the table cloth or was touched by the towel (Neither an uncommon occurrence). Perhaps people would be concerned even if there was no real problem. I guess it depends on how much remains after a rinse.
There are also many sites where people express their interest in making sure their products, including detergents, are free of animal products.
Seems to me a reason why a detergent manufacturer would want a kosher certification, even though from a kashrus perspective there is no reason to need one.
“Wrong. The fact that no milk products from any animal other than cows, goats, or sheep may be transported across state lines for commercial allows us to consume such dairy products in the US. “
Actual, Charli, you are wrong.
Is there a law preventing making laundry detergent out of edible non kosher products?
The only reason there is a heter for milk is because it is against the law to sell other items as milk (Well read the cRc’s recent information about a new law)and that the government checks up on the milk.
That is not the case at all with detergent.
You are way off base on that theory.
I asked someone who works in Kashrus and he said that the agency never says that there is a reason for hashgocha but there are manufacturers who want it.
If I had to venture, perhaps they just like to see the symbol across all their products or that they use it to certify to certain users that it does not contain animal products.
Avik,
If you would have followed even your part of the conversation, you would have seen that it was referring to how soaps, including laundry detergents used to be made. And there was no real difference in the soaps then, they were used as both laundry and other detergents.
And I am pretty sure the olden day soaps were items that dogs could and would eat, self respecting or not.
Akuperma was saying that people may want a hashgocha because of what traditionally soaps were made of.
I am being Serous. Even when I don’t shop, I do often bring in the shopping. However I’ve never looked for, nor noticed a hasgocha.
I know someone who works in kashrus and I will ask.
The OP has asked a question about clothing detergent and hashgocha and there are number of responses that seem to assume that there is even such a thing.
I asked for just one example and no one has responded. Not that means there aren’t, however, why would there be responses assuming there is such a thing when no examples have been provided.
Charlie,
“I am unaware “
That is not an answer (factual as it may be). I suspect that there may be other items you are unaware of as well. That you are unaware is even less an indication of actual status than anecdotal data.
Avik,
“Akuperma, do they also eschew pigskin and alligator skin belts (not to mention footballs, which are evn called pigskins)) and alligator shoes?”
It would be a problem if they would chew, not eschew.
Footballs, although called pigskins are not made from pigskins.
Anyway, none of the items you mentioned never come into contact with food so its a moot issue. However soap products are used on tablecloths and to wash utensils, and it is not clear that they would ever have been considered “nifsal” so your comparison is just uninformed silliness.
Have you seen any with a Hashgocha?
If so, what brand?
Which Hashgocha?
Can you get an extra sticker on it?
I would guess that feivel understands that ???? ?????. But like you say ??? ??? ?? ????, the ???? cannot be more than the ????.
“when it comes to something like internet in the house, which at worst, may indirectly affect other children negatively, and the negative ramifications have not been objectively proven by any stretch”
Thus has got to be one of the stupidest things written here.
Health,
He has not Just come to Lakewood, he is there for a number of years. And he practiced for many years in Flatbush. Children there are also children. I never asked what papers he has written, frankly that is irrelevant. How good he is was told to me by an organization that researches doctors. And I have trusted the lives of myself and family, literally, to both the advice of this organization and to Dr. Eilenberg.
Further to the point, I have never heard say not to vaccinate, he certainly never gave that advice to me for my family. Not does it sound like something he would say, based on on my experiences with him. I might believe that he would say that it is not insane for a parent to make such a decision.
Further, the reason I contrasted him to Dr Shanik is because he is mentioned earlier in this post about the matter.
One poster above referred to him as one Elderly doctor. Dr. Eilenberg is not elderly, in fact I would say he is a good number of years younger than Dr Shanik. He has been practicing for probably more than 30 years at this point.
ZD,
I cannot attest as wether what is being ascribed to Dr. Eilenberg is what he says. However, he is not “stam” a doctor in Lakewood, he is one of the formost pediatricians around. This was told to me by a highly regarded, well known medical referral organization.
We had a question with one of our children and we were told that he is the first person to see, he is better and more experienced and knowledgeable than even the specialists in the specific issue we needed information about.
He has a tremendous amount of experience, he keeps up on current research and talks to and listens to his patients so he knows what’s going on with his patients.
Not to knock Dr Schanik, who is also a special person, but he spends very little time with his patients. A very different approach from Dr Eilenberg.
Bottom line, Dr Eilinberg is not just a doctor, he is one of the gedolim of pediatrics.
“there is a machloket between Rav Elyashiv zt”l and Reb Shlomo Zalman zt”l as to the permissibility of wearing lenses that change into sunglasses outside (photochromic lenses) on Shabbat. Rav Elyashiv says “No”,it is Tzove’a. Reb Shlomo Zalman says “muttar”, not Tzove’a”
I heard the following story that R Ezriel Auerbach’s rebbitzen (R Elyashiv’s daughter) went into a glasses store and the proprietor showed her a pair of photogray glasses. She said “May father says I shouldn’t wear them on Shabbos, but my father in law says I can”
The glasses store owner (who did not know who she was) says, why are you asking your father or father law, this is a shala for a Rov.
“Those who prohibit sunglasses atidim latet et hadin bashamayim “
I haven’t heard anyone who does except for unsubstantiated supposition by the first poster.
Sam,
You will notice that I did not react to Health’s comments even though I don’t agree with them, because he was disagreeing with their shittah. However ZDs comment was not arguing with the shittah, it was a childish attempt to belittle Gedolim. And that’s why I paraphrased it in my comment to him. Specifically because it is something he does often.
I think there is a matter of Halacha in debating the risks. There is no question that there are risks to the vaccines, the question is how great. And if a parent weighs the risks of vaccination vs no vaccination and the likelyhood of contracting disease while not vaccinated vs contracting it even when vaccinated, then it is a halachick shailah if the person is considered a mazik and if a school has rishus to exclude a child because of that.
That’s also why it’s not comparable to testing for Tay-Sachs as one of the commenters above thought they were being wise raising, because there is no danger at all in being tested for Tay Sachs.
I know you see the difference.
Shabbat shalom.
Less,
Did you stop beating your wife yet?
You pose questions that can’t be answered just as yes or no.
1) The board has public meetings. I’ve actually gone to see one. Does the board ever go to executive session. Yes. Every board does and should. There are good and legitimate reasons to.
2) They received approval from the State Ed department to seek a building based on an appraisal.
Please answer yes or no, have you stopped beating your wife?
Without dealing with Zogt’s answer, I am not sure how strongly disagreeing means one has to use derogatory language.
There is a very big difference.
And in most cases, I would certainly give a bonifide, universally acknowledged gadol the benefit that he knows something I don’t.
For instance, I personally do not follow all the shittos of the Divrei Yoel, but I would not use degrading language to talk about him ChV.
Like a certain posters snide remark.
And Sam, although I do not agree with much you say, I find you typically to be knowledgeable and reasoned, I am therefore surprised with your assumption that strongly disagreeing means ridiculing.
“or that sunglasses are not OK.”
This is called assuming facts that are not in evidence. And this was discussed earlier.
“It boggles my mind that a Rav or Rebbe would be so involved in deciding that metal frames are OK, but not plastic frames, or vice versa”
This was a case of a Rosh Yeahiva talking about the styles of the time, and yes, that would certainly seem to be within the purview of what he would discuss with his talmidim. (Or chassidim).
GAW,
Your bias is that you assume there was a non halachic ban.
“Charlie Hall, R’ Sherira gaon permitted sunglasses”
Only while vaccinating children, not all the time. And he also specified wht style lenses and frames to wear when doing so.
“Another non Halachic ban is expected.”
So it is our bias that is informing your understanding. Ok. That happens to everyone. But this also helps others to understand your biases.
“I am very interested in Dr. Hall’s opinions”
Especially when he doesn’t care about other’s opinions. That he wears sunglasses is not something that I can attest to but it is meaningless in the conversation as to whether people wear sunglasses somewhere else.
“He argues from the facts”
His comments here certainly seem to disprove that.
1) I take issue with the serious disrespect.
If that was the case you would have argued with most of the other posts, not that one.
2) Murderers? really?
People who refuse to vaccinate their children are rotzchim. The children should be forcefully vaccinated and definitely not let into school.
POSTED 1 DAY AGO EDIT DELETE
Murderers. And that doesn’t sound like it’s contradicting the Rabbeim?
3) Did you read the letter?
4) Not sure what aveirah you are alleging? Poking an anonymous poster? Who has used derogatory language against named people who also happen to be universally accepted gedolim?
So some here decided that because he doesn’t see people wearing sun glasses, that there is an issur.
I don’t quite follow the logic in his assumption.
Nor do I understand why it seems that others have now accepted that as fact.
ZD,
1) Have you seen/read the actual letter?
2) Please reference any of the other alleged “PSAKS” you refer to. I’d like to see your sources. You wringing PSAKS in large letters is not a source.
3) Do you know how many hundreds or thousands of instances that each of signatories to the letter assist with. Be it getting and or keeping children in school for any of the myriad reasons? So they have the absolute right to ask that there not be a chilul Hashem for the schools not to follow a psak.
And apparently, Joseph’s comment went over your head.
In real life I’m shocked that moderators on a site called Yeshiva World have no issue with the derogatory remarks made here about R Shmuel Kaminetsky, R Mattisyahu Salomon and R Chaim Kanievesky. And if you wonder which comments do so, look at the one I was paraphrasing.
A poster says the rabbeim are allowing murderers into the school but you are bothered that zd says the klal will blame disease on the internet.
If you want to defend halacha and Torah, there are ways to do it without being oiver other halachas. And you are encouraged to do so.
ZD,
To paraphrase you above, will you blame a child’s low intelligence on the vaccine or your heredity?
It’s not a matter of a psak to not vaccinate. It is a psak that a school cannot exclude a child from school because they were not vaccinated. A very different type of Psak.
ndg: Are you like this in real life as well? Just wondering…
“Insignificant”. Sorry about that. The terror of autocorrect and poor typing skills.
Joseph,
” I would hardly take a journalists guess or statement as having anything to do with reality”
Fixed that for you.
Your welcome.
Joseph,
I think the article mentions and dismisses that as significant.
“I don’t care what any contemporary rabbi says about it.”
We don’t care what you have to say about it.
Charlie,
The letter is based on halacha, which you are not qualified to comment on, nor are you qualified to comment on child raring.
The article quotes the usual silly commentators who are intentionally out of touch with reality such as Sam Heilmann, Michael Saloman and Chananya Weisman. They should tell you how much intentional fictional information is included.
And based on the comments to the articles about the Mormons, it seems that the sources for information about them are similarly intent on prevarication.
So it may be an interesting article but you must consider that it, for a very large part, is based on the information provided by people with the specific intent of painting those communities in a bad light by way of prevarication.
Typical of Charlie. He thinks Fiorina is bad, because she cut costs to keep a company afloat. On the opposite, he thinks Carter was a good president. A president that was a disaster for the American economy. A president who’s foreign policy left the US a laughingstock.
To Matan1, you wanted proof that democrats are “Machala sheayn bo refuah “? Just look at the democrats who post on this site, you cannot get stronger proof.