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” all I did was point out to the person who commented that they wouldn’t have a problem if their landlord was frum that being frum unfortunately is not a guarantee of being a mentch”
No, that is not what you said. You said “do not wish for a frum landlord”
Which means categorically.
” IIRC I saw something in East Ramapo that has them at a 60/40 split (public vs. transportation & special ed.).”
1) The split is nowhere near that unless you include BOCES (which is almost purely public school) And that is including 100% of transportation and special Ed as private, which is not even nearly the case.
“You can combine bus routes so if a family has twins a boy and a girl (Or more likely children a year apart), but they go to seperate schools, the school bus can pick them both up and drop each off at their respective schools, this is more efficient and money saving. “
This is a claim that is completely without merit. It would only make sense if the two schools are nearby and have laddered start times.
However it makes no sense to have a bus route that has many pick ups as well as many different drop offs. That will not work, nor be more efficient or time saving.
Further, you assume that the busses are running half empty, which does not seem to be the case.
“No Walmarts in NYC. “
Don’t you know that your hero, Al Gore, invented something called the Internet? Who needs a store to be situated in NYC.
As far as avoiding unethical places, that’s funny, because you frequent the Bayit, and it’s difficult to find a more unethical place than that.
The Rebbe stole the student’s candy?
Btw, even if the Rebbe was Will NSG to forgo his hskpada, wouldn’t there be a problem of hataras nedorim? It’s a nice story, but incomplete.
ZD,
Yeshivas in the past were also at least as dependent on contributions. Many more parents could not pay tuition.
As far as well of frum Jews, Boruch hashem there are number of chareidi billionaires who are very philanthropic and support yeshivas, kollelim and other causes. In amounts that you are probably unwilling to fathom. Your unawareness is only an indication of your lack of knowledge and nothing to do with reality.
.”As for OO, there are many problems but some people need a halfway house. I once heard Rabbi Weiss comment that many people who started at HIR will no longer daven there. “
Perhaps if they defined themselves as a halfway house, one could be ???? ???? on them. They view themselves like the gay rights movement views itself, not just another type, but the preferred type.
As far as those who won’t daven there anymore, it’s not that they’ve moved up, they’ve moved out of yiddishkeit entirely, that why they no longer daven
Oy,
yet another instance of writing of what he knows not.
ZD,
“Eating Days” which is a poor translation of essen tag does not mean they only ate certain days. The practice in many of the pre war yeshivas was that community members would have over a yeshiva bochur for specific days to eat. And other community members would have them on other days.
And certain members also got allowances from the yeshiva for food.
“Are they presenting themselves as a non-profit to get tax breaks? If so, then they should not operate at a profit. If not, then yes.
The Wolf”
That is not what being a not-for-profit means. Even a not-for-profit has to make money, or else they will go out of business. They will go bankrupt. There is no such thing as a true zero budget.
What Not-for-profit means is that it is not meant to inure benefits to any individual. And the purpose of the business is not for generating a profit, but rather to carry out it’s mission. But to remain in business they do have try to remain in the black.
“The Republican Jewish Coalition 2012 nationwide exit poll showed Obama beating Romney by 4% among Orthodox Jews.
Teaneck and Riverdale both voted 70% for Obama”
Not sure how often this has to be reiterated, OO is not Orthodox. And it is now wonder that they voted for phony, it fits right in with their whole philosophy.
ZD,
I can’t respond to your comment, it makes no sense. Perhaps you can attempt to rewrite it so that it can be understood.
“Busing can also be cut, you can increase the distance required to get busing from say 1 mile to 5 miles from the School “
Where did you get this minimums from. You can’t just make up statements and claim that it is the law.
The actual law is as follows:
“Section 3635 of the Education Law requires all non-city districts to provide transportation for pupils enrolled in kindergarten through grades 8 who live more than two miles from the school they attend and for pupils enrolled in grades 9-12 who live more than three miles from the school they attend”
“Say 5 miles” is of course incorrect.
Besides, a referendum was passed many years ago requiring provision of busing to all students in Ramapo. So until there is a new referendum, busing must be provided to all students in the district, regardless of the distance.
“GAW
the state can provide the missing funds or it can impose a tax increase, but there is always room to cut. They can enforce budgetary savings even on madatory services. They only have to provide the services to a state minimun, not what you personally want” (sic)
And yet the “Activists” insist that the school board provide what they want, much more than the state mandates (which by definition, means the minimums, look it up)
“Rav Moshe was known to be Mekail, Rav Elyashiv was known not to hold this way “
Not true. Not true.
On both counts. You have no clue what you are talking about.
ZD,
So? That is not germane to the conversation.
ZD
“in Austerity if the budget is rejected and nobody gets busses”
An austerity budget means that the mandated items, which includes busing, remains in the budget. And services continue to be provided. You are wrong.
ZD,
But they are not the same everywhere. And the poster said ridiculously high, not just high.
“It really costs full list price to educate your children. The poor children’s subsidy is coming from donors not other parents.”
“That’s what you say. I’ve seen numbers to the contrary.”
You’ve seen numbers?
Truth is this is a silly comment because there is a huge range in tuition charged. You have schools that charge as Low as 3-4,000 tuition and you have those that charge 30,000 and up. And I am referring to Yeshivas, not other private schools.
I have reviewed financials of private schools that charge in the upper 40,000 per student and still receive contributions and are netting (not gross, net) 8-10 million a year and have reserves and endowments of many millions. But this not the case for any of the yeshivas I’ve seen. Any one that actually showed a net gain for the year was based on donations tiding them over. And the gains were not huge and for the most part were used for buildings and he like which are not expensed as spent.
I know that there will posters that will say, that’s because the administrators are taking all the profit as salary. But that simply is not the case.
ZD,
So you are effectively saying that Riskin is a goy and therefore this is ok for him?
” I absolutely have an agenda”
Yes Charlie, that is very evident to everyone here who has read any of your comments. And your real agenda is also evident.
GAW,
If they are accusing the board of being discriminatory solely by dint of their not being of the same makeup as the majority of public school parents, then they must be held to the same level of appearance of non discrimination.
And you are a moron if you do not agree that the reason why this specific group was selected was in part because of their color. To make the Reverend who is buddy buddy with the anti Semite Ari Hart happy.
You know who the bleeding heart liberals are in the NYS government.
GAW,
It may be a legitimate comment because the complaints falsely alleged that the Board discriminated against Blacks and Latinos. Would it not make send to then use what would be an objective mix?
Charlie,
What do you do on Shabbat? What does the Rabbit at HIR do?
A good example of OO psak:
“Not really; pilots often leave the cockpit on long flights.”
How does that change that pilots are secluded for long periods? Clearly long periods mean the length of time that would be an issur yichud. And the cockpit on commercial flights are locked from the inside so that people from outside cannot access. Would seem that way here can be a very real issue of yichud.
I suspect that there are those who do not know what “frum” means.
There is no designation open frum. So that should clarify some misnomers.
ZD,
You’re making an issue where there isn’t one. The Mayor of Lakewood has dealt with such issues without entering the church and without any ill feelings from non Jewish citizens of Lakewood or from the family of the deceased.
Charlie,
As you well know, Jack Lew prays at a non Orthodox synagogue (it’s not Orthodox even if they append that word to the name of their religion)
My last comment should have included the following quote
“On the other hand, Rav Gustman said that today’s non-believers are ignoramuses not apikorim. In Vilna the apikorsim knew all of Shas. I am willing to judge the OOs favorably and think that they are tinnokot shenishbu regarding hashkafa and/or think”
“Rav Lior quoted Rav Kook as saying that the Erev Rav are Jews who support our enemies. This would definitely fit the NK and their fellow travelers.”
However, people like Charlie Hall believe that Avi Weiss and his cohorts at YCT and Yeshivas Mahrat are Geeonei olam. He goes to their talmud sermons regularly.
Rav Lior quoted Rav Kook as saying that the Erev Rav are Jews who support our enemies. This would definitely fit the NK and their fellow travelers.
As I’ve noted in the past, the NK are really small potatoes. They have not done anything impactful other than have others scoff at their nonsense. Eruv Rav, doubtful, misguided and foolish, absolutely.
However, when Avi Weiss writes articles in the NYT harmful to yiddishkeit in EY, he falls under the R Kooks description of Erev Rav. When other Rabbits of the OO movement hold press conferences and join in Court Cases which are designed specifically to harm Orthodox Jews, they meet the description of Eruv Rav.
Malei,
By leaving out the other part of what the posek said, you are twisting his statement.
He clearly did not mean that people should not ask shailos about Ayin Hora.
I am curios who this posek is that you are referring to.
“nisht: We’ve had this debate before. Either way, not knowing all of the intricate details of Hilchos Retzichah does not make one evil.”
However, some who is OTD, or someone who belives that their feelings drive halacha would be likely to commit retzicha in the aforementioned manners. (Think about taking the heart out of someone before he is halachically dead to transplant into someone else).
Most poskim hold that removing a feeding tube is more than just gram retzicha (if there is even such a concept) it is retzicha biyadayim.
So it is not hard to see how someone who goes off the derech can be oiver on retzicha. Giluy arayos and avidah zara is upgeredt.
I is actually hard to understand why there is a poster who thinks that going off the derech is not a slippery slope to being oiver even the most serious aveiros.
“So I do think that most people who are OTD are otherwise decent human beings. “
I never said all were not, however I do think many who do go off, certainly the ones who are vocal about have long been proven to be other than fine individuals. Often times their behavior is related to metal illness, but that does not make them fine decent people.
Then I specifically pointed out members of the OO persuasion, who are most definitely not fine people.
And killing someone out of mercy, does not make someone a decent fine person.
By definition, a rotzeach is not a fine individual, on him it says that muttar lehatzilo benafsho.
“And by your indication, most of people alive today are murderers. “
Those are not my definitions. Those fall under the definition of retzicha.
The premise of the poster was that just because someone doesn’t keep Shabbos does not mean they will be a murderer, that the person will not be over other aveiros. I just pointed out the fallacy of that statement because they would very likely be over on halachic retzicha. Precisely because those who do not keep halacha do not consider it murder, while the source of all that is true and factual, the Torah, does consider it murder.
Matan,
There is a group of star graduates of YCT who are touted as important OO rabbits who go out of their way to harm and defame frum people in the MSM, and by lodging made up complaints with government agencies specifically against frum organizations and frum owned business. Causing them tremendous harm.
I would call that evil and nasty. Probably they fall under the category of “mosrim”.
“Most people who are OTD are otherwise decent human beings. “
This is very debatable. There are many who go OTD that are very far from decent human beings. And there are many of the YCT persuasion that are evil nasty people who specifically seek to harm frum people.
“Not keeping Shabbos is not an indicator that one would be a murderer, Thief etc”
If your only definition of murder is stabbing someone in an alley or shooting someone with a gun perhaps not. But what about ????? as defined in ???? which would include pulling the plug on an ill patient who is still alive according to ???? or withholding nutrition from a patient on machines. That is ?????. And it an absolute surety that someone who does not keep Shabbos is very likely to be involved in ?????. And they are more likely to condone abortion as a choice and they are likely to ignore halachik definitions of ownership and be involved in ????? ?????. For instance if they gamble amongst each other in cases where you would not say there is an ??????.
Your supposition is utterly wrong.
“someone slips and does ONE Averiah, that they will do the other 612 Averirahs.”
I don’t see where the poster said that they will be ???? on every other ????. However if they are spouting apikorsus, it’s not a big slip to ignoring ???, ????? and ????? ??????. The last one is questionable how much they observe. Onside ring a large part of their belief is feminism and based on their own pod casts.
Either way it does say in ???? ????, and I’m paraphrasing, ???? ????? ????.
“to do if Hillary Clinton becomes president?”
Perhaps what we should all do, run away as fast as we can.
I wonder if R Simcha Krauss and the IBD will look at wedding videos and note that the eidim were OO and that as a heter for an agunah by positing that the ??? ??????? were not kosher.
I would find that media splash informative.
WWAWD?
“At the “Open Orthodox” shul I attend we even say birkat kohanim at Musaf, not Shacharit, on Simchat Torah. The Rema would be pleased. ;)”
And that includes the baptist ministers who join in.
Don’t kid yourself, there is nothing they do at HIR that the Rema would approve of.
The fact that the RCA had to release its statement is proof how much the OO illness is infecting Orthodoxy and why the Moetzes had to inform everyone that the YCT, IRF and its rabbits are not practicing Torah yiddishkeit, by any definition and is clear, they are not trustworthy for kashrut, eidut, their Beirut is not a geirut and ifotunately that are going to create further mamzeirim with their passul, gittin and their unsubstantiated hetteirim for married women to cohabit with other men.
I find it disturbing that people who claim they are orthodox can possibly support such reshoim.
“I am not sure that a place that would consider hiring a YCT graduate really cares what the Novominsker Rebbe says (one of the signers) or for that matter even knows who the Novominsker Rebbe is”
Are you inferring that thos who might be on a rabbinic search committee are unaware of any number of the gedolim? And would not care who they are? Even the horrible radically anti religious, anti Israel publication that Avi Weiss and his band of fools write to, The Forward, acknowledged a number of the members as important Rabbis. Much to its own chagrin. You are being Motzei Shem ra on those Shuls, or they too have left Orthodoxy.
“To say that would be motzi shem ra. Even his most bitter opponents had to admit that he is a kosher eid.”
That is untrue. I know that many who are far less than his “most bitter opponent” who would not drink his wine nor trust anything he says, let alone consider him a kosher eid. And that includes many RCA members.
“All the ones I have ever met are orthodox.”
DO you ever wonder why certain sattements ar oxymoronic?
You would say that someone certified by a non orthodox as a cleric by a non orthodox institute can be called orthodox?
edited
“2 rabbis are applying for a Rabbinate job, One is OO and one is a YU Rabbi”
Good example. The Kol Korei is just what is needed to deal with such a case. The synagogue membership will now know that if they are Orthodox, the YCT candidate is not at all a viable candidate. A perfect way to make an objective, absolute decision.
On the other hand, if you say the YU guy is a nice fine person, that does not guarantee that the synagogue members are not charmed by the YCT candidate, because as we all know they are trained, slick, snake oil salesmen.
You have shown exactly why such a Kol Korei is helpful and needed.
“The difference between my approach and the Moetzes is I want to show people the positive points of view and not the negative points of view”
So, pray tell, what exactly are the positive points, from a Torah perspective about open orthodoxy?
Can you please point to some positive outreach you are doing that would draw anyone closer to yiddishkeit that we can use a kiruv resource?
I know that the members of Moetzes are involved in many such programs and constantly advise and direct many kiruv programs and individuals active in kiruv.
Apparently you never read the Moetzes letter, because there is nothing in there negative about an individual, it talks about a movement that is drawing people away from Yiddishkeit. It is not negative in anyway.
I am glad that you A) think that you are equal standing with the Moetzes, and B) are sure that you have a more informed and better Torah perspective than they (Individually and as a Group), and C) that your comments are l’shem shomayim, while the Moetzes comments were not.
There is a posuk in the Torah that states U’Biarta Harah Mikirbecha, Vchol Yisroel Yishmau Vyirau. It does not say Achdus is better.
I would think that for 147, anything other than the Redelheim siddur should completely verboten.
Something like the Kol Rinah or Koren siddurim should not be allowed in any Jewish home.
“There is an old adage, you catch more flies with Honey than vinegar.”
And you will note the cow manure attracts even more flies.
And once you are e so hung up on adages, flies are a nuisance and some bring disease, even deadly ones. The correct action is to drive them a away
ZD,
“Denouncing other people is not a way to create Achdus”
1) If you were to actually read the letter from the Agudah, you would note that it does not denounce any individual. It denounces a movement.
2) Your refrain is typical of those who do not have a legitimate response. You do not look away from those actively corrupting yiddishkeit because you are worried about achdus. An ihr hanidachas was destroyed. It does not say in the Torah to be worried about achdus in such instances.
3) This phony movement has lauded gay marriage and is on the verge of saying intermarried couples should be embraced, specifically because they are intermarried because of “achdus”. Welcome to a corrupt line of thinking.
“It was a statement, but not a Kol Koreh in the same meaning as an Agugah Kol Koreh.”
The extra bit of condescending attitude toward an individual is NOT a part of our tafkid and invalidates the rest of your message. I am doing you a favor and taking away the distraction
2) What exactly do you imagine is the difference between a statement and a Kol Korei? They mean, and are, exactly the same thing.