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“Say a boat with all strangers is sinking that you have nothing to do with or even know who anyone is, for example. Or any situation where between two people you have nothing other than the kedima stated in halacha.”
There has not been a case in the past 100 years I am aware of where a man was saved over a woman and the woman was left to drown or a yisroel was saved before a convert because of any halacha. Not one case. If there has been a case please tell me I would sincerely like to know.
Well obviously not from what I quoted earlier and also I remember Rav Eliezer Waldenberg saying it does not apply to saving- many Rabbis dont hold by that today. Rav Moshe would also consider many people today who are kohanim not to be because he requires more proof than most poskim. Rov Moshe also says its only when all else is equal which we could never know. So one way or another halacha has adapted not to follow this order lemeisa.
I would challenge you to tell me one real-life case this has actually happened where a man was saved before a woman because of this. It has been relegated into the impossible and non-practical.
It is NEVER followed in real life. Does hatzola follow this order? Do doctors? Do frum firemen? No one follows this lemeisa.
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“Safek Kohanim? That doesn’t make any sense. I mean, it does, but no one since the before the Chasam Sofer and R’ Akiva Eiger have held that Kohanim were actually Safek Kohanim. We assume our Kohanim are real Kohanim and that a Ksav Yichus is just a Chumra by doing the Avodah. Otherwise we wouldn’t do Pidyon HaBen.”
I asked my rov a while ago he told me since they are only safek it does not warrant saving a life. I got an email from another Rabbi saying the same thing. I asked another rov about giving a kohen kedima in tzedaka and he told me not to so as well. The email gave me these sources: See “Shulchan Aruch” Y.D. 251:9 and “Aruch HaShulchan” 11 there. R’ Tam on Taz 128:39 and others i can look back at the email if you want
Yes, I asked a posek if a Kohen should be saved before a Yisroel and he said a Kohen is not saved first because they are only safek kohanim. I believe we have already had this talk. And for women, it only applies when everything else is exactly equal. And things are never exactly equal. So its not lemeisa. The poskim will find a way out of these things.
“baskin robbins pink bubblegum ice cream is now kosher”
Now all I have to do is gather the courage to walk into a baskin robbins as an adult guy with my beard, kippa and tzizis and ask for pink bubblegum ice cream.
Joseph, can we put an end to this once and for all: did you actually ask a question what to do lemeisa to a Posek and he told me lemeisa to save a man before a woman? And he told you lemeisa to save a kohen before a levi?
“No serious rosh yeshiva ever said we stop following a halacha in Shulchan Aruch in our days or that we shouldn’t talk about a mishna.”
Yes, I asked if a Kohen should be saved before a Yisroel and he said a Kohen is not saved first because they are only safek kohanim. I believe we have already had this talk. And for women, it only applies when everything else is exactly equal. And things are never exactly equal. So its not lemeisa. The poskim will find a way out of these things.
And yes, a serious Roshe Yeshiva has told me halacha like these will make people on the fence go off the derech and we should not talk about them to certain people. For privacy reasons I dont want to say his name. Of course, you have the right to disagree and I personally disagree with any sort of censorship.
Joseph, in my humble opinion, I dont think the motive for you asking these questions is coming from your neshama, I think its coming from your yetzer hara.
I will tell you I have heard a roshe yeshiva, one of the most respected, say not to bring up this mishna as it will cause people to go off the derech. The priority structure for saving is not followed today lemeisa by anyone. Also, halacha sometimes has to be very simplistic and it can be misconstrued so people who dont know how halacha works might think the hierarchy is indicative of some sort of superiority.
Two male witnesses are believed for instance who we dont know anything about, but one witness is not believed even if its Rov Moshe Feinstein. Does that make the two witnesses “superior” to Rov Moshe Feinstein? Certainly not. But thats how halacha works, its often simplistic.
Halacha also allows for slavery. It allows the slave owner to breed their slaves. It allows to stone people to death and calls for mass genocide. Why dont you talk about those halachos?
“Of course not. Leshitascha, the guy in the story isn’t Jewish.”
The guy in the story is Bernie Sanders
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All this talk about “camps” and “Jewish genetics” makes me feel uneasy.
I always hated this kedima structure because I am a gizbar, so if I get stuck on a sinking ship with an amarkal I am basically a dead man. Also, for a mother, I believe she takes precedence of your own life as well.
I personally think its a very bad idea. “He treats his wife so much better” “She is more attractive” “He makes more money” “She makes more money” “They already have kids and they are so cute” “Why can they afford a 3 bedroom and we cant” etc. Its probably a great way to ruin your shabbos and get into fights unless you are clearly the couple society places a higher value on. Very often, the other couple is at the “top of their game” so the visiting couple or host do not even see what goes on behind the scenes.
But on the other hand people have a way of making friends with others who have the same type of income and status. If you dont, often you will not be invited in the first place. I still think the couple should have meals either at their own place, family or go to middle aged to elderly couples.
Its interesting why the question was not asked about older couples- I guess because couples in their 60s don’t care about these things anymore.