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Daas, besides that fact that I believe a kohen not marrying a giyores is derabanan today, not discussing halacha here, I said that if there is no halachic issue after you talk to your posek (i.e you are a levi for example) then go ahead and marry a giyores.
There is no need to feel bad about it for being “less kodesh” or something of the sort. My take.
zahavasdad: “Chabad not only accepts them into the community , they marry them”
“”Chabad non-racially mixed Rabbis marry their children to converts from other races?””
???
Its an image thing. A kohen during the times of the beis hamikdash had to have a certain look to him. He had to have certain clothes, he couldn’t be too ugly or aesthetically unappealing by missing an an arm for instance, he also had to have a certain wife. Its a tzurah- a look.
If there is no halachic issue and you want to marry a ger or giyores dont worry about it, you dont need to have that image today its all good. Thats my take.
Im just curious, would you not have married Ruth for your rationale? Then we would not have Dovid Hamelech.
The kohen thing was a joke. The last thing I wanted to do was start a halachic debate. Talk to your TOM (trusted orthodox mentor) for questions about serious issues.
It would be like Rosa Parks, non-whites are only good enough for the third alliya and lower lol
“Chabad not only accepts them into the community , they marry them”
Chabad non-racially mixed Rabbis marry their children to converts from other races?
“Don’t compare children to food.”
By definition, a kal vechomer is not an equal comparison- it inherently means you are comparing two or more non-equal entities.
Thats the reality. Certain people dont like to change the look of anything from the old country of europe and gaclicia. They like the chala to look the same, the candles, the menoras, the shelves….and especially their offspring.
Its not being anti-X. Its wanting to preserve Y.
What would be really bad for orthodox PR is if the everyone married colored people in the shule besides kohanim, then it would look like only white people were allowed to get the first alliya.
“They tend to be more accepted there”
They are accepted everywhere. Its marrying them and changing the color of your children to a different color from the old country that is what many people dont wish to do.
Think about it, ashkenazim dont like to change the color or texture of their gefilta fish since thats the way it looked back in the old country of galicia. Kal vechomer to change the color and texture of their own children.
Maybe they should start a Young Israel somewhere that has a moderate to large mix race percentage of families. Then it wont be a big deal anymore for the children of that community to marry other mix raced couples.
Once it becomes common to have black Rabbis and black people in positions of kavod and authority within the Jewish orthodox community, when the typical Young Israel is no longer composed of 95% white people, then it will no longer be a big deal to marry someone of a different race since it will be common.
People naturally dont like to stick out and want to fit in within their community norms.
The line where this becomes a real moral problem is when people reject the shidduch over race not because of person desire but because of societal pressure and societal stigmas.
While it would be foolish in my opinion to outright dismiss a shiduch over race, after the third date or so if it is something that really bothers you (i.e. you want purebred genetic ashkenaz children or whatever) than I think its a valid issue. People want all sorts of superficial things in their spouse- racial and ethnic background is no different than many of the other superficial things people want.
I know all of this is common sense but it doesn’t hurt to repeat it.
The Young Turks are for sure not safe for frum Jews.
This is such an important point. People shouldn’t be wasting literally years of their lives on degrees that will only earn them $15-20 an hour.
A college degree in 2016 is not what it was 20-50 years ago. Its like a scam.
Worst of all is the one who graduated college with a BA with a bad gpa. Such a degree I wouldn’t even give the zechus to burn it with the chametz!
The purpose of an artscroll translation of bava kama is very different than the purpose of reading Huck Finn.
zahavasdad, The only problem is 99% of the people going to cuny colleges majoring in english lit are not realistically going to earn a parnasa for themselves as writers. Talk about a low probability success rate.
And while I do wholeheartedly agree with you that artscroll english writers cant hold a flame to legendary authors such as Twain or Dickens, the purpose of artscroll english is usually to translate the Hebrew on a practical level. Its not poetry or novels.
Getting a simple BA in math probably wont get you anywhere. And most computer science courses are outdated and bloated.
Its much better to teach yourself online or go to a code learning bootcamp which is much shorter than college.
Employers care about how good you are not where you went to school for computer coding.
Yet another reason not to go to traditional college for those things.
I also am, as long as the person plans on furthering their education after graduating college for more years and taking very advanced math and science courses. At the same time I am also encouraging business ownership as a viable alternative. Working for yourself has pros and cons. But dont discount the pros.
A rebbe told me the Vilna Gaon only learned math in the bathroom and haas veshalom to call it Torah. I admittedly dont believe this is where he learned math.
But when I learn math I can sense it does not elevate my neshama and I cannot sense the kedusha that comes down as I do when I learn Torah.
The range for buying an active business where you have to work there full time is 1-3 times the yearly net. For a passive business where you mostly take in the money without working its typically 3-5 times the yearly net. This is on average.
But for someone who doesn’t use his cuny degree and owns his own business I don’t know why you are arguing with me.
zahavasdad, Im not even saying don’t go to college. I think going to college to become a doctor or dentist is a great investment if you are cut out for the math, science and the gihenom of grad school and be willing to put Torah learning on hold for a long time.
I am simply discouraging people from going to college for certain reasons and saying owning a business might be a viable alternative for many people. And even if you dont have the 100-500k I still would not suggest going to a cuny school earning a degree in English lit or something similar for most people.
“What if they think it’s got a lot of growth potential?”
That can for sure increase its selling value but its more risky and wont increase its selling value nearly as much as a current revenue stream.
A buyer might be willing to pay for it, but its going to be hard for a seller to demand more money for his business based on potential.
No one in their right mind would pay 150k down for a business they have to work at full-time 5 days a week that nets only 30k. That is what you call an awful investment.
A business that makes a 100k profit would sell for 200-300k. The owner will usually hold whats called a note and allow the new owner to pay him back over time or a bank can get involved as well.
I know this because this is what my brother did and I was deeply involved in the process.
“You are not going to get a pre-existing good business for $150,000. Any business is only worth its accounts and how much net profit it makes. a business that nets about $30,000 a year is maybe worth $150,000 which is not alot of money to make and live on. At 5 times P/E for $100,000 income you would need to spend $500,000 for a business.”
This is COMPLETELY false. For a non-passive business its usually 2-3 times net. Not 5. A business that nets 30k you can usually buy for 60-90k.
Syag Lchochma, care to state how?
DaasYochid, Im not sure why you think fleshing out the details and examples of the pros and cons of a huge life decision is silly.
zahavasdad, this is what I said:
“Get a mentor, a financial adviser, perhaps look into buying an already existing and established business from someone looking to retire. Have a little bitachon. That 150k+ will be better spent that way opposed to learning how great atheism and communism is while going for a BA in some college.”
And you took away from that I advocate starting a new business in NYC, the highest rent area in the entire country, with 80k? ??? Your example is pretty much the opposite of what I said.
“I can tell you if you do not go to college you have a 0% chance of being a doctor.”
And if you dont go to college you have a 0% chance of becoming a lawyer.
And if you do go to college to become a lawyer without having extremely wealthy and generous parents you have a 100% chance of using up 7 years of your life learning about non-Torah related subjects and graduating with hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt and a good chance you wont get a good job or wont like your job.
Dont worry, Im sure most of the people in those low barrier careers have enough self esteem in their own lives without relying on the exclusivity or lack thereof of their careers to feel good about themselves.
“Why is it an insult to be in a low-barrier field?”
Its insulting if the person has low self esteem and needs their career to make them feel positive about themselves.
The less exclusive something is, the less it artificially increase ones self-esteem.
Syag Lchochma, no big deal misunderstanding. The points go together though.
“I said philosophy 101 and you refuted that with philosophy 101.”
You said religious phil 101, my point was they teach these things in courses that dont have religion in the title.
Yea Im glad we can agree on the basics.
We have access today for free in the comfort of your own living room to more secular knowledge than past generations ever had in their largest university libraries.