Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Why does it apply to photographers and not Rabbis? Whats to say they cant take a Rabbi to court unless he officiates at their gay wedding? There are orthodox jewish gays believe it or not.
sam2: “Those against the law aren’t anti-semites. They’re anti-Christian.”
Actually, they are anti-religious.
Has anyone here ever learned beginning of masechta avoda zara? Let me ask you, what if you are a Jewish photographer and a neo-Nazi group wanted you to video tape a mock Jewish execution? Or make them a cake with a swastika in the middle? If christians don’t want to allow frum Jews in their glatt kosher restaurants, good for them.
This is america, there will always be someone else willing to take your money.
gavra: “We are discussing Halachos of Tzedaka,”
what does the following statement have to do with halacha?
“first of all, if u can afford to smoke, then you can not have the chutzpah to go round collecting.”
Doesnt sound like that to me. And again, like I said before, by your logic we should never give ANYONE off the streets even $1 since every needs a background check.
And the other thing mentioned of investigating has nothing to do with specifically an ani who smokes it does not automatically disqualify someone- so even on a halachic basis this is a very problematic statement.
Also, there is a difference between saying show compassion to others by not 100% withholding a $1…. and throwing ones money away. Also to view a person with an addiction as not being worthy of sympathy is problematic as well as far as middos go. I got this last part from the vibe of the comment.
patur: An ani smoking in of its self is not proof of anything- period. If you look at my original statement i was responding this line “first of all, if u can afford to smoke, then you can not have the chutzpah to go round collecting.”
while you might have found that using a quick google search, this is not how we determine halacha. I said “There is no halacha saying you have to do a background check when some ani asks you for a couple bucks on the street.” That is true. You are referring to communal funds and or a “chiuv” for a private citizen to give- for that the halacha is different. If you choose to buy one less sprite bottle at the gas station in order to give a poor person who smokes a dollar- there is no halacha against this. Also, what ani who smokes says he does not need food? Additionally, rov moshe says that if someone was rich and they squandered all their money away (lets say in vegas) one must still give him tzedaka since he needs this money now.
Obviously there are limits, to each his own, but it certainty would not hurt ones middos to give a dollar to someone who asks even if they smoke if they can afford to. To count this $1 towards ones maaser money though is not what I am discussing.
“That is the Halacha, which is why many larger areas have a Va’ad Tzedaka that does the checking for you.”
That is not true. There is no halacha saying you have to do a background check when some ani asks you for a couple bucks on the street.
“first of all, if u can afford to smoke, then you can not have the chutzpah to go round collecting.”
By this logic we should not give anything to anyone without an intensive background check, because there are many beggars who wont smoke infront of you, and there are many beggars who spend money on non-vital items (i.e. chicken instead of bread, cell phone instead of bread, vacations instead of bread, car instead of bread). In fact, probably every ani spends some tzedaka money for non-vital needs. So by this logic you should basically give no one.
simcha: I have heard from some people who felt that the secular anti-frum israelis were also pushing to prevent yeshiva bochrim from having to serve in the army, so long as they were forbidden to work as well, with the hopes that being forced to live in poverty would destroy the entire society. It has not destroyed the society but you are right that that mindset and laws has led to serious poverty issues and it’s a real problem I dont see an easy solution to for the current generation. As for your first point, I would say charedim care about all people who wish to be chareidim- but those who choose not to they dont care about. This is true for all non-racial minority groups.
yekke2: a) no. b) im denying that one is chiuv to specifically be mekaved a TC by refering to him with an honorific title followed by his last name c) in some cases yes some cases no.
There are many people who get smicha early in life and go on to do totally different things, don’t really chazer and if they do not sufficiently, and 5-10 years down the road dont really know things. There are many people who dont know more than the average yid even a year after smicha. There are also different types of smicha and yeshivas have vastly different standards. To make a sweeping claim to call every person with some sort of smicha Rabbi for the rest of his life because “why not it doesn’t hurt anyone” is not correct- as it truly can change the dynamic in a relationship and in the office.
lesschumras: “buy him his ad and leave the rest of us alone”.
Ouch.
zahav: Well this Rabbi is different than the Rabbi who made the pesach ad joke but they were excess food, loud music at simchas, alcohol availability for children, teens and for people who cant handle it, lack of carbon monoxide alarms, lack of proper fire safety (and yes he said this way before the recent fire tragedy in Brooklyn took place).
yekke2: well he was actually talking about loud music at simchas and food was number one on the list. He said that it used to be people had one type of fish for gefilta fish a one side dish some chicken and meat. Now people need 3 types of gefilta fish, 3 side dishes etc. He said that people should have it buffe style instead of leave food on the table to avoid over eating, and that having to buy such food causes lots of extra stress on the family. Do these pesach hotels charge lots of money and offer fancy expensive food?
No one is banning anything. Perhaps they are different problems. Perhaps often they are not related. But maybe sometimes they are related.
yekke2- we do not paskin halacha lemeisa on a mishna in avos. I stand by my original statement as told to me by my person rabbi:
There is no halachic obligation to call a regular person in the community who happens to have smicha rabbi. This is all the more true if one needs (or wants) to maintain an equal level with said person on a professional, social or communal basis.
“I wasn’t referring to somebody who doesn’t have the necessary qualities to define himself as a Talmid Chochom.” This is not helpful on a practical level as all of these issues are very subjective- and thus must be left to the individual to decide. Social norms are also very subjective and in many communities simply do not exist.
It’s not me saying this, i heard it from my rabbi, that some, though not all hotels, are too materialistic. additionally, it puts strain on families to earn more money. My rabbi recently gave a shiur on 5 bad habbits of orthodox jews. and spending too much money on food and simchas was on the top of the list.
I dont want to post personal information and this is not psak haalcha, but I can tell you I personally heard a certain rov say he would pay for an ad in the jewish paper saying “stay home for pesach!” instead of “come to this hotel for pesach!”
yekke2: there is no chiuv to call anyone “rabbi” who has smicha. If you dont want to call so and so rabbi, unless he is the rov of the community you are in there is no halachic basis to demand calling him rabbi. If there is a need to maintain an equal standing with someone, for communal or professional reasons, it is completely valid not to call him rabbi. I have asked my rabbi this question as well.
regarding the mitzva to honor a talmid chacham, that does not include many of the people who have some sort of smicha today and does include many people who do not have smicha. the talmid chochom of the gem is very dif to the talmid chachom of today.
there is no reason not to give tzedaka to an ani who smokes. but you can also keep in mind the best form of tzedaka is to give someone else the ability to become self-dependent.
There are many different types of smicha and many different types of smicha granting institutions. I dont think it is appropriate to call someone Rabbi unless they are using their smicha in an official capacity such as a school rabbi or rabbi of a shule. This is because when you call someone Rabbi and he calls you by your first name it will psychologically inevitably lead to an unequal relationship, and the person being called rabbi will inevitably gain the upper hand even. For instance, if person a has smicha and person b does not and they both work at an accounting firm, person b should not call person a smicha since there is no reason why they should not be equals.
wolf: i think there is a difference between begrudging someone and saying as a society we should discourage a certain type of behavior, especially when this might lead to social pressure for others. So while its wrong to say so and so spent thousands per person to go to a hotel for pesach, it’s not wrong to say society as a whole is wrong for it. in fact i have heard several robbonim say some pretty bad things about going to hotels for pesach.