newbee

Besides calling me and my ideas silly, and phil continually interrogating me over what I eat this week- I can only image what other people have called me that the mods were kind enough to block.

Daas Yochid = practical to-the-point common sense.

Other people = literal fascism

The fact that this got SO many passionate responses tells me it hits very close to home and I hit a nerve. I dont think further dialog will be beneficial. All the points have been made.

ubiquitin: my initial post was the menu. what I said about “in that order” was pointing out the hypocrisy of the dinner, and I said probably (i.e. look they called it an halachic dinner, thats a holy thing, when they are really gearing it towards a crowd thats not going for the halachic aspect of it so why try and make it seem like a holy thing? Not the those people who went are wrong per-se, but the concept of calling it torahdik is wrong.

“aside from newbee, nobody idealized the meal.”

A previous dinner similar to this was titled “An Education with Every Bite!”

Another one was titled ” A dinner of extreme halachic importance!”

ubiquitin: ok, pretty good, lets address this before going further. Out of my 4 arguments number 4 is where you disagree. I am glad you agreed with me on number 2, or at least were able to see my point how an “halachic dinner”, also known as a “masorah dinner” can be viewed as, well… representing authentic Jewish masorah. Lets take at number 4 then:

“4) the concept of nuval bereshus hatorah applies to the every-man, and is not limited to the most elite of Jewish people.”

You responded: “the practice is different. For some it is eating Meat ever, for some more than once a week etc… ”

Lets take a look at the Ramban:

?????? ?? ????? ?????? ?????? ???????? ??????? ?????? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ???? ?????, ?”? ???? ??? ????? ???? ????? ???? ???? … ?????? ?????? ??? ?????? ??? ???, ????? ?????? ??? ??????, ??? ????? ????? ?? ?????, ???? ???? ??? ????? ?????:

???”? ????? ??? ??

The word ?????? means glutton. To be gluttonous, to indulge oneself in meat. Now, kindly re-read the menu. If the word cannot apply to a meal like this, it cannot apply to any meal. Thank you, good day.

ubiquitin please address my points and where you disagree, tell me if you get lost:

1) this dinner is extremely, extremely exotic, excessive, lavish and indulgent.

2) this dinner was named a halachic dinner- which implies it is a dinner related to Torah values.

3) it is wrong to do something in the name of being related to Torah values when this level of indulgence is inherently anti-antithetical to said Torah values.

4) the concept of nuval bereshus hatorah applies to the every-man, and is not limited to the most elite of Jewish people.

joseph: thanks.

phil: thats right, I said it probably was, I suspected that it was for a certain number of people. Here is the menu, from my first post:

halachic dinner: mixed greens salad topped with an esrog dressing, crispy shallot topped veal intestines stuffed with veal heart, chicken gizzards, duck liver and kidneys, truffle oil drizzled, poached brains with garbanzo beans, white pickled garlic and lemon, Moroccan cigars stuffed with duck foie gras, goat tagine with dates, dried plums, cracked Syrian olives and fava beans, braised squab with poached fennel mousseline, roasted shallots, braised artichoke hearts and fresh truffles, bison sliders with glazed onions and Israeli cracked olive paste and slow cooked ox tail with green peas and sherry wine mousseline.

Dessert included both a dulce de leche cake in a chocolate caramel box as well as one what was undoubtedly the most exotic item of the night: Mexican chipotle chocolate covered locusts.

PS, make sure to come because there will be a shiur given! So its all good.

“The question is Still there. Which step in the ones outlined did I lose you?”

Im not sure what you mean

“Agreed!”

Great, we agree on something.

“But you do eat fancy food”

I do? And I say its a dinner of kedusha and tahara and talmud torah?

apushatayid: he probably would not say very good things. But I am not even talking about that, I am referring to this specific case of:

INDULGING IN GASHMIUS AND CLAIMING IT TO BE RUCHNIUS

ADMIT WHAT YOU DO AND CALL IT FOR WHAT IT IS

“a common yom kippur practice in MO shules on yom kippur”

I was saying that this is a practical issue in shules- mostly which happen to be MO. I was not criticizing MO people. Lest you say I have never heard of people doing this in my shule.

“Newbee is not demanding everyone be on the level of the Mesilas Yesharim, he is merely pointing out that the glorification of indulgence is not a Torah value.”

Thank you!

????”? ???? ??????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ?? ???? ?????? ?? ?????? ??????? ???????, ??? ???? ??? ????? ?????, ????? ???????? ?? ?????, ??? ????? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ????? ????? ????, ??????? ???? ??? ????? ?????

??”? ????? ??? ???? ???? ??? ? ???? ?

Regarding a common yom kippur practice in MO shules on yom kippur:

????? ????? ?????? ?????”? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ???? ????? ??? ??????, ????? ????? ???? ????? ??. ?????”? ??? ???? ??? ????? ?????

????? ???? ????”? ???? ???? ???? ??? – ??? ????? ??????

I guess this is also assur to say since it insults people and the Torah allows for it.

phil: you and everyone else, are not even addressing my point about the halachic dinner, you are only saying its not nice or mean or attacking me personally. You say “very little emes” when you know everything I am saying deep down is 100% emes. And its hard to twist words when you quote basically word for word.

I feel like a high school rebbe being jumped on by all the teenage students in an MO school because they dont like what he has to say.

“Also please dont call your silliness emes.”

All I did was quote mesilas yesharim and a gemara at the end of Pesachim. So I suppose you consider that silly. Then again, the Ramchal was put in cherem wasn’t he.

I never denied simchas yom tov. And the halachic dinner had nothing to do with yom tov or shabbos. If I made you feel guilty about eating that 6th hotdog or that 4th plate of chullent, I’m sorry.

Basically, you gave up on defending the main point, and started attacking me personally and about simchas yomtov- which has nothing to do with this. This is getting tiring. If I dont respond, please dont mistake my silence for agreement. Nothing I have said did I personally make up, I have either read or heard my rebbe say everything I am saying.

Yes its self-righteous to read mesilas yesharim to other people.

And this is not about me, im an anonymous person talking about a type of dinner party.

“Since you are so keen to judge others for what they eat, please include a detailed accounting of everything you have eaten in the past week, so that we can judge you.”

“Please continue, it’s quite entertaining!”

I dont go around claiming I eat halachic dinners. As I said before, if you want to indulge in gashmius then do it and admit it for what it is. don’t fool yourself and others. But if you want to know, I generally eat chicken and rice. Sometimes hamburgers and rice.

Seems like I hit a nerve with you and some other people. Emes hits hard. I dont think you are looking for truth, nor do I think you are doing this because of ahavas yisroel. Nor do I think anything productive will come our of further dialog with you.