newbee

“My question to you: we believe that there will be a techias hameisim. Why would those who have passed on to olam haba want to come back to Earth?”

When I lived in a certain city I went 2 years without a parking spot because I could not afford one- having to walk very far to carry every little thing in and out of my apartment including heavy groceries- day in and day out. After 2 years, I was finally able to afford a parking spot right next to my apartment. That “luxury” was needless to say, very, very nice. If I never would have gone those 2 years without the parking spot, or if I would have moved into a different town where there is parking everywhere, that pleasure of having that specific parking spot would never has been as great.

Thats how I view techias hameisim- you cant truly get the reward of fighting and working with the guf without the guf itself.

And techias hameisim is what is eternal.

“but if I had a choice, I’d want to learn and then sleep in a warm bed in the town’s inn with food in my belly and have no bandits to fear.”

But you must also say, “if I had a choice, I’d want to sleep in the warm bed in gan eden and learn Torah from the light of the shechina in olam haba.” So ideally, we all want to live in olam haba- in pure bliss and paradise with no problems.

“One big difference between wanting to die and wanting Moshiach to come is that the latter is a Mitzvah while the former is an Aveirah.”

I dont think wanting to naturally die and go to olam haba is an aveira. There is a story in the talmud about a tzadik wanting to die so he could go to olam haba.

But you are not answering my question. In fact, if the only difference is that (according to you) one is an aveira and one is a mitzvah. This does not provide a logical answer to my question.

EpshureWhat: I smell a troll in the room. I dont think the mods will allow you to last very long.

My question was relying on the fact that it is not wrong to not want to die, and mochiach coming has correlations to what happens after death as well in the minds of many people who want said moshiach to come.

When people sing, “we want moshiach now” over and over and over they are expecting to go back to their old jobs and deal with their same old issues after moshiach comes? To me it sounds a lot more like they are praying to get what comes after death in olam hazeh without the actual death process.

“other than Kohanim, Levi’im, and those living in Yerushalayim itself, our lives will be similar.”

If you look at the maharsha it says the kehuna will revert to the bechorim during moshiach. But I guess we can worry about that when he gets here.

I dont think most people view moshiach coming as still having to pay their rent bills and go to work every day and fight all their personal issues in life. Most people I speak to describe moshiach coming basically as gan eden. like Avram in MD just did.

“Does dying bring giluy k’vod haShechinah”

Yes, when one dies they see the k’vod hashechinah. We also continue to grow and grow after we die and come closer and closer to Hashem during the times of techias hameisim.

“When Mashiach comes, we will still be human, with ta’avos, and with yeitzer haras. ”

So if we still have yeitzer haras and taavos there will still be murder, theft, work, crime, rape and world-wide suffering when people give in to those taivos. And if people cant give in to those taivos, they are not real taivos.

“There’s a big difference.”

I dont see the big difference. Techias hameisim is after death also and we will have a guf.

Joseph,

I’m curious, how do you vision your life after moshiach comes vs after you die and go to olam haba? Is there really that big of a difference?

coffee addict: “So you’re selfish? One really should want moshiach so hashem’s name will be complete in this world”

Do you really think Hashem lacks the ability to make His name complete in this world? Why did Hashem create this world in the first place, and why were we sent here?

Why were we not simply created to live in olam haba to begin with?

If you ever read mesilas yesharim its rather clear- so that we can earn olam haba for ourselves.

Thats not selfish. Thats self-caring.

So when we say Hashem created the world that we can earn olam haba, and that the entire point of olam haze is to work and earn it, why do we want moshiach to come for personal reasons? To want moshiach for the world in general I get, but why for personal?

“What is wrong with Central and South America?”

Why dont you try living there. Every year move to a different country in a random city in central and south america- then get back to me.

BTW- I am not refering to family members who we can maybe be mekariv. I am talking about non-observant family members who will for sure be driving on shabbos/yontif and openly admit they will never be shomer mitzvos- just to simplify the question. Basically, inviting non-frum family members who will be coming just for social reasons.

CHSV, thanks. Kol hakavod to you as well, well said.

“Your comments are nonsensical. I’m not going to sit here and rebut every time you repeat the same nonsense and non sequitur over and over by shifting a few words.” – Joseph

If you want limited-frustration, purely rational, non-repetitive, constructive dialog- online forums with anonymous strangers are not your best option. The main reason being there is not enough mods or time to filter out repetitive and irrational posts.

That would take dozens of full time, skilled employees.

Ben Adam LeMakom

(apposed to the other two very important issues of chillul Hashem and ben adam lechavero):

When you view tzizit, even though they dont have kedusha like tefillin, as having a connection to Hashem, you treat them with respect. You dont just throw them on the floor or sit on them. When you view a human being as being betzelem elokim, you naturally treat people with more respect. When you view nature, as Dovid Hamelech time and time again writes in tehillim reflects the handiwork of Hashem- you will naturally show more respect towards the wonders of Hashem as well. Which is why I believe this is both a ben adam lechaveiro and lemakom issue.

Daas, you think its extreme, but present no reason or evidence why you feel that way. Not the best way to make a point. I was once called a religious extremist by a relative for not saying I think gay marriage is great. Its very easy to say “you are extreme”- hope you’re not getting lazy on me. Laziness is not a good quality- such as being too lazy to pick up after yourself and leave your garbage on the ground.

Daas, I dont think my post is extreme at all.

popa- wrong, wrong and wrong.

yekke, Yes I am sure Hashem does not care about the hills, valleys, rivers, waters, mountains, oceans, fish, birds, wild and domestic animals He created.

“And on the 6th day, Hashem created the soda cans, candy wrappers, beer bottles, plates and plastic eating utensils- and scattered them across the earth- onto every hill and valley and into the rivers as a sign of wonder and a salt-like covenant between Hashem and coca-cola inc. Then He created loud speakers to make (bad) music, in order to permeate the land with noise and vanquish silence and tranquility from the ears of man and beauty from his eyes.” Gensis 1,32.

It was a sarcastic question.

On the other hand: the democrats dont care about the quality of the country or the right of other immigrants who are trying to come to the US legally- since they allow illegal immigration in order to increase democratic voters.