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Consuming all the chometz is one of the most fun days of the season! It’s like Purim Sheni!
“I do not now how the term “shiva call” became part of our vernacular. It really is performing the mitzvah of nichum aveilim.”
You don’t understand how a 2-word phrase became more popular than using an entire sentence every time?
The very popular kosher grape juice brand which shall remain nameless so the thread doesn’t close has multiple types of the glass bottle. There’s the organic glass bottle (which I assume is the 100% real juice you’re talking about; it leaves a purply powder residue), and the non-organic. Not sure if the non-organic glass ones have concentrate.
How can something have concentrate without water to balance it out? That would just end up being pretty much syrup. Maybe they aren’t required to list water as its own ingredient up to a certain point?
“Egg Matza can be eaten by anyone, not just sick”
He should have specified: the sick and the Sphardi.
Ashkenazim do not eat egg matzah. The Rema doesn’t even allow for it after zman issur on erev Pesach.How did egg matzah even come into this? The OP said they had not said hamotzi yet, just al natilas yadayim. I’m 99.9% sure I heard in a shiur that, in such a case, it’s not a brachah l’vatallah even if you never get to eat the bread. The basis was that if something wasn’t a brachah l’vatallah when you said it, you can’t retroactively make it one.
“Yet no one took issue if he didn’t sleep in sukka or had cake before davening.”
If he ate cake before davening, he was over an issur. If he didn’t sleep in the sukkah when he could have, he was mevatel a mitzvah. Need to hear me say it again?
Obviously, everyone was against these practices if he held of them. Silence does not imply approval. And, I don’t think you want to say it does, because then how would you explain the Rebbe’s “silence” on meshichism?
They aren’t known for toeing the line; they’re known for being unambiguously non-Orthodox and anti-Torah. The only reason the event you mention is even news is because we’d all be surprised they broke from their usual pro-toeiva ways.
Chad:
The light grape juice of the most popular brand has grape concentrate and water in the ingredients, as does the non-light version. I assume the ratios are just different for the light variant. The shittah that water + concentrate brands are not real gefen might be a real thing, but the differentiation between the light and non-light would be arbitrary in this regard. If one holds concentrate-based juice is shehakol, then you would say shehakol on both.“Lit: And the Sefardic derech is chopped liver?”
He didn’t say mesorah. Most Sphardim in America learn in normal, Litvish yeshishas.Yabia:
Why are you assuming everyone here is Ashkenazi? You think when Lubavitchers speak condescendingly about those who shave, that they’re only referring to Ashkenazim? Their hatred is directed at all non-Chabadniks; that includes Sphardim.I’m 98% sure this thread has actually turned into an argument between non-Lubavitchers and other non-Lubavitchers who are trolling and pretending to be Lubavitchers. Or, in Rebbitzin’s case, pretending to be a Lubavitcher who’s pretending to not be a Lubavitcher. Gah. This is all so confusing to follow, but it’s this kind of thread that makes the CR great.
The better question is, how did there end up being an alternative, Litvish Chief Rabbi appointed along side him this time around?
“You’re claiming he’s in this generation, i.e. alive, and at the same time, that he’s not alive, but can be moshiach even though he’s not alive”
It’s called hedging their bets. Just in case they’re wrong about him being alive, they can still be right about him being moshiach. Their belief system has so many fail-safes, which is what makes it so impossible to deprogram.
It’s just like the Rambam so clearly says, “l’hatchilah, moshiach should be alive. But, if he dies, b’dieved he can still be moshiach if you believe hard enough.” I’m paraphrasing of course 😉
Did you consider the possibility that maybe “Grape Juice Light” is not just watered down grape juice and perhaps that’s why people use it instead of watering down grape juice?
ur trolling is bad and you should feel bad..
“Depends on if your a lubavitcher or a litvak”
So, if you’re a Lubavitcher the minhag is to “honor” other gedolim by not using titles and, if you really want to honor them, using insulting terms to refer to them. Meanwhile, people who spend 8 months in a Chabad kiruv yeshiva and get “smichah” get the title of Rabbi and it would be insulting not to refer to them as such?
OK, I think I got the minhag down pat.
Let me get this straight, you guys believe he could possibly die, but just happens to still be alive and be the oldest person on earth by now (I think), and just happens to be hiding where nobody can find him?
I know your point is that it’s only kefira if they believe he CAN’T die due to divinity, but at what point is the proof just in the pudding? Will it still not be kefira on his 200th “birthday?” Is it not common sense that he would be dead by now unless you believe something divine is going on?
If not, can we get a concrete date/year at which it becomes OK for us to say it’s kefira to believe he’s still alive? His 150th birthday? His 170th birthday? There has to be a cut-off.
You can search the websites of kashrus agencies or contact them. I believe the mainstream brands are all kosher. Colgate is kosher l’pesach. Of course, do your research and don’t go by the CR.
“Freddyfish, are you saying that religion should dictate the law?”
Are you saying letting people who want to ban plastic bags dictate law is inherently any less crazy?Rebbitzen:
Are you pretending to be a Lubavitcher on other threads or pretending to not be one here?It’s the inevitable conclusion of liberalism that they will start banning necessary things and legalizing things that should stay illegal. An entire mindset built around correcting the laws will have to do this to remain relevant after the laws have been corrected to be fair.
Lernt:
What you’re saying is not how any poskens. Just because we’ve formed groups on earth doesn’t mean Hashem compartmentalized the Jewish people. Even though rov Lubavitchers believe in kefira, they still have the same chazakah as the rest of us. Unless a Lubavitcher specifically publicizes his meshichism, his wine and aidus is kosher. Haven’t you noticed the references on this thread to gedolim eating at Chabad events? You think they aren’t aware of what most Lubavitchers believe?“Neville, and rarely will you find the MO admit that they’re lax in tznius, kashrus, or dozens of other things. And will even get angry if you point that out to them. So it is human nature not to want to acknowledge weaknesses; this isn’t anything specific to Lubavitchers.”
I actually said exactly that earlier on this thread. That is assuming it got past moderation. This thread moved so fast I didn’t actually see.
Point is, don’t worry, I’m no hypocrite. I give the same treatment to the MO.
“The L Rebbe himself explained, in connection with the wish “yechi hamelech””
Did the Rebbe have an explanation for the rest of the yechi chant? We’d love to hear it.Milhouse:
That’s interesting about Sanz; I was not aware of that.
It’s not entirely true that all say shehakol on raw potatoes. The Mishnah Berurah says no brochah is made on them sense they aren’t really eaten like that if I recall correctly.I believe there is a shittah independent of the Sanz minhag you mentioned that karpas should have to be naturally occurring adamah, not something that has to be cooked into it. I’ll try to track down a source if I can.
Regarding onions, isn’t the Minhag haGra and minhag Lubavitch to use onions for karpas?
“Funnybone, isn’t that how the minhag works? That’s why I don’t understand why it’s considered stealing the afikomen rather than finding it”
That’s the Chabad minhag and apparently also Sphardi (I wasn’t aware of that until now). The long standing Ashkenazi minhag done by many is for the kids to steal the afikomen. In other words, some have the minhag to steal other have the minhag to find. Two separate things.
“Part of the problem here is people think someone who is not jewish or not frum are morons when it comes to kosher”
99% of the time, they are. Typing “kosher” into google is not going to teach you the intricacies involved when dealing with modern food science. Your constant comments like this are not convincing me that the masses know about kashrus, rather they’re convincing me that YOU think kashrus is a lot more simple than it really is.
5ish:
I think the chashash for not using potatoes is that they cannot be eaten raw. I’ve never heard of anyone holding that potatoes are not adamah.Rational:
Parsley was probably the minhag in much of Europe. The kitzur records it as the prevalent minhag, and I’ve known people from central Europe who use it. I’m not sure where you heard Europeans hadn’t discovered parsley.“Its completely reasonable for one to say that he is lax regarding shina b’sukkah”
Yet, notice how no Lubavitcher will ever say it.“all ur saying is ur scared to open a safer and look
How are you even arguing if you never opened a safer?”
The argument is how the shittah fits into the Jewish tradition, not the Chabad tradition. Using seforim from the Rebbe is totally circular logic. Why are we having to tell this to grown adults? This would be like saying, “I’m going to defend Bernie Sanders’ position by bringing, as a proof, an excerpt from a speech made by Bernie Sanders.”Lol, Reb Yidd, touche.
Chossid:
OK, if the sicha is as you present it, then you can put your money where your mouth is and put a stop to this whole entire discussion. Repeat after me:
“Chabad is meikel with regards to sleeping in the Sukkah.”“Do you really think most people in the food business are ignorant when it comes to kosher”
Yes.They might not think it means “blessed by a rabbi,” but do you think Philadelphia Cream Cheese realizes that other hechsherim consider them to be gavinas akum? Do you think goyish food workers realize there are certain enzymes that some hashgachos consider treif while others don’t? There are so many small things where the OU is meikel; they could just chose one of those things to be machmir on this one time as their reason. I don’t think Big Gay is going to do that in depth of research.
By the way, I’m not necessarily saying they should pull the hechsher; that’s not for me to say. But, your reasoning that they should provide hechsherim essentially on the basis of giving into terrorism is ludicrous.
Brewed Coffee > Diet Coke > Instant Coffee
Reb:
Granted, the quote is not as I remembered it from Gaon’s posting, but that’s still not an issur.If your point is just that we have kulos, chabad has kulos, so we should stop throwing stones in glass houses, then that would be fine, but that’s not what the discussion is about for me. We aren’t trying to get you guys to shave or daven heicha minchah (which, by the way, is not as prevalent as these threads are making it seem). I’m fine with labelling these things as “kulos” or being “meikel.” Are you willing to do the same with not sleeping in the sukkah? Or, do you use the lashon of all Lubavitchers that you’re “strict” to not sleep in the sukkah? It’s not about semantics/word-choice; it’s the fact that you’re choosing your wording out of a sense of extreme elitism.
They can just say it’s treif. How are they going to know the difference?
ZD, you completely misunderstood my point. I was not comparing.
Your point, as you spelled out clearly, is that they have to hechsher any outwardly gay company regardless of circumstances to avoid backlash from gay lobbyests. What if the company started including treif ingredients? Then we all have to eat treif because we’re held hostage by the activists? That isn’t a straw man argument. Your defense for the hechsher had nothing to do with kashrus; you seemed to be more concerned with appeasing the liberals.
Rebitzin: RSo is Chassidishe. Cholov akum and shaving deflections are not effective on him. And, not to dignify your comment with too much of a response, but apparently not all poskim agree that heicha mincha is b’deived. Goan brought a proof ealier from the Beis Yosef I think.
Syag: With the whole “hate” discussion, I agree with you, but to be fair I seem to remember you doing the same thing when we pointed out problems with the Five Towns. And, don’t say it’s not comparable. If anything, those problems were a lot worse than our issues with Chabad. Point is it’s not a Chabad-specific deflection tactic; it just seems to be a human instinct to avoid talking about tough issues within one’s group. I avoid this human character flaw by consistently hating on everyone, including my own people.
“Ice cream called “big gay” certified kosher-what’s your take?”
Where can I get some, and do I have to be mevatel neder for Cholov Stam?ZD:
By your logic, they could put pork in their ice cream and the OU would still have to hechsher it. Nobody said they have to make a public statement that they’re boycotting it because of the gay thing.“Do you really not remember my saying so early in this thread?”
I do not. Sorry, I guess. The recent posts seemed to condemn all forms of religious regulation. If you believe that, in an ideal world, the “Rabbinate” would decide policy, then why would you not support individual policies that are supported by the halachah?“My point is just because something is immoral isn’t necessarily a reason to legislate it.”
I understand. That’s something that liberals and libertarians have in common. Given the recent republican grubbing for libertarian votes, it’s made this a more confusing discussion than it needs to be. I’m a traditional conservative; I support heavy discipline.As for your side argument, it seems like you had it with Avram. I’m not going to say what others have already said. As I said earlier, I don’t believe the rare cases you two were discussing actually exist. That’s a halachic question, not political.
What was it like to be off the deep end? I’m so sick of being on the deep end.
Chossid:
“Maybe ask Rabbi YY Jacobson, he’s a well-respected Lubavitcher in the litvish world”
I doubt you’ll answer this since I’m clearly on the enemy team, but how respected is he in the Lubavitch world? He trims his beard, doesn’t he? (No motzi shem ra intended if I’m incorrect).“But the Chofetz Chaim is only followed when it fits with our lifestyle!”
I know you meant that to be condescending, but it’s actually a pretty non-controversial statement. There are all sorts of cases where Chabad doesn’t follow the Shulchan Aruch HaRav to the letter; I’ve had some pretty good, informative conversations with Sechel on here about why that is.
Have you ever met anyone who follows one sefer of collected halachah for all minhagim? Have you ever heard anyone say, “my mother’s mesora was Minhag Kitzur, but my father came from a minhag Be’er Heiteiv family?” It’s also not controversial to observe that we posken a lot of issues different in America than we did before (psst, Chabad also did this). What’s the big deal? Also, you surely realize the electric razor didn’t exist back then, right?
“I don’t have the full answer to that one. but definitely not religion!
The Aztec religion called for human sacrifice, did that make it moral?”Yikes, this just stopped being a political discussion in my eyes. I’m not really sure what to tell you, ubi, but if that’s how you view all religion, including your own, then I’m sorry if any of us helped to solicit that outlook.
As to your question about whether I think adultery should be illegal: not everything is for the criminal courts. In the civil courts, it should obviously have bearing on divorce proceedings. I would be open to the concept of the victim being allowed to sue as well. Why not? You can sue for a lot stupider reasons in this country.
Sechel: You realize Joseph wasn’t talking about Chabad? You realize he’s one of the few people here who has almost never criticized Chabad? It’s actually almost kind of suspicious…
“I said it a few times, thats my view. I should clarify though, what I mean by “morality” is really religious based morality.”
You mean you don’t think chokim (stuff like kashrus) should have any bearing on law. Obviously you don’t really think theft and murder should be legal (even though it seems like you basically said so a couple of posts later, I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt that it was a misunderstanding). Almost all frum yidden do NOT consider the issur on abortion to be a chok. As to why you do have that perception, I reiterate what I said earlier, you’ve been adversely influenced by socially liberal friends.“I believe adultery is immoral, I dont think many here (besides Joseph) believes the US government should legislate adultery”
That’s the mentality that caused a lot of blue states to be “no fault states.” Meaning, a woman can have all the affairs she wants and still clean out her husbands bank when they get a divorce (I think it can technically go the other way too, but let’s be real here). In the most civilized countries, men are afraid to get married. Doesn’t seem like the lack of morality in legislation was good for society to me… Or to anyone other than crazy, leftist feminists…“Why is this any different than any Hillel house in a school why is only Chabad the issue here.”
Well, given that Hillel houses are Conservative/Reform I doubt this is a big concern for them.As for why the OP is asking about Chabad vs other kiruv organizations, it could be just because Chabad is the biggest and more well known name in kiruv, it could be that he’s looking to pick on Chabad, or it could be due to their carpet bombing-style kiruv that seeks to involve mass quantities.
“I read the brochure inviting all Jewish teens to attend which didn’t mention anything about a Jewish mother. Even if 25% were non Jews is that ok?”
Why wouldn’t it be? If they advertised: “only students with Jewish mothers allowed!” they would get almost nobody. Use your common sense. They aren’t mekareving everyone who shows up to a mass event on the spot. They’ll get the answer before they zoom in on individuals who have real potential.
Anyuser: Your facts are off. Pretty much all non-Chabad rabbis have a problem is meshichism. The determining factor of how much of a problem it is is how public they are with it (true of any kefira). Your assertion that “99.9%” of them are fine with it does wonders for discrediting everything you’ve said on this thread, so thanks for that.
“As as I understand it , if someone comes to Chabad and is a zera yisroel, they urge them to convert”
This is not the position taken by Chabad. I don’t fully understand the OP, though. If Chabad feeds say 25 people for Shabbos, what difference does it make if 10 of them are goyim? What exactly is there to “deal with?”“I could say I don’t get it you claim you want limited government people should be free to own guns, but all of a sudden you wont the government to control what goes on in people’s bodies”
I would concede that that is a good point if you were talking to someone who defined conservatism as “one who wants to shrink government across the board.” That is not traditional conservatism. It’s a recent distortion that many people have made in a petty attempt to include libertarians in the conservative world, where they do not belong.Ubi: I enjoyed it because you were continuing to talk about such a serious thing when you were clearly quite yotzei the mitzvah of the day based on how it was written.
Charlie: thanks for adding those points, and welcome back.
“So this is where you are 100% absolutly completly no room to agree to disagree wrong. Obviously t6his isnt publicly duscussed. Ask your local ob.”
Lololololololol. Freilichin Purim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111
I don’t even want to start this debate again. That comment just made me so happy.