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“However, the song’s popularity has caused the original intent to be forgotten, which might provide slight justification.”
I don’t see the relevance. If somebody made an idol to worship and a Jew later acquired it and used it as art, that doesn’t make it mutar. The original intent is always what matters with A”Z. However, I cynic in me says if certain poskim found a way to matir avoda zara hair, they’ll certainly figure out how to construe this as mutar.
Ironically, the song is obviously only popular with those who are makpid on not listening to any goyish music. Nobody in their right mind would listen to these Jewish parody singers unless they felt like they had to, and now those people are defending possible A”Z.
“So, is the songwriter wiccan? the band? those who did the remix that the israeli group took it from, are they wiccan? ”
Seems the song was wiccan and was taken by an Israeli “Bu-Jew” group, and then by a frum guy. Hanaah from A”Z stays assur no matter how many times it’s exchanged. If the line of transmission is as believed, then it seems like it would be assur.“Some people believe that the risk of vaccinating babies for a few viruses at once is greater than if done one by one. It makes sense, but I don’t have any data on this.”
Actually no, it doesn’t make any sense. Why would anyone think this makes sense?
It’s a lose lose with anti-vaxxers. If they combine to one shot, they’ll complain that it’s too many diseases at once. If they split into 3 shots, they’ll complain it’s too many shots. There’s no cure for stupid.
“Thank you for bringing things back to a course of reasoned debate–that “a pop song that came out recently” is not considered a Minhag Yisrael–almost all the dissents for the past while have been lacking any substance, just venting frustration and negativity.”
This almost makes me feel a little guilty about my delayed, insult post. This spam folder thing is making for weird threads (kind of hilarious actually). How’s that going, mods? Should I make a new account? I feel bad burdening you with this.
“Someone I know was at a matza baking chabura and the head of the chabura insisted on a Chazon Ish chumra, an Aruch HaShulchan chumra, and at least one from the Ben Ish Chai.”
There’s a big difference between “shopping for a psak” and being yotzei all deos. Do you really need this explained to you?rational: People are upset at your presentation more so than the content of what you’re saying. You could chose to say: “based on the reason for 2 day yom tov in chutz having to do with a safek on when yom tov ends combined with kabalistic reasons, it is understandable to me why people would hold that your practice should go by where you currently are located. However, many (if not most) respectable poskim hold that it should be based on your permanent dwelling place. I do not have the zchus to understand the logic behind shittah, but, b’ezras Hashem, I will continue my learning and be able to understand it soon.”
Or, you could chose to say, “I don’t get this opinion, therefore it’s dumb.”
Do you really think those 2 options are equally appropriate?“The SA gives multiple views so we say אלו ואלו דברי אלקים חיים.”
RGP seems to be saying that the way you presented it was more of a “my way or the highway” approach. This was originally about chiyuvs that are lifted on Shabbos to avoid carrying. You brought in laining as an example of a purely communal chiyuv. That proof only really works if everyone agrees to that interpretation, which even you admit they don’t. Then, everything got sidetracked and you said “I am allowed to follow this view, specially from the Behag who was fron the gaonim.” That was a mistake. You were in the middle of bringing a mashal for another debate, but you made it about the personal use of a shittah with that statement.
No matter which opinion you follow, I still don’t understand how this differentiates between laining and shofar.
“Neville, I meant for people who are in the category that is almost certain to test as not immune.”
I was not aware there was such a category. I think this conversation is mostly academic. MMR boosters are not over the counter; you probably need your doctor to do the test to show you need it. It’s just the same blood test as everything else.
“In short: don’t negate, integrate.”
You’re aware that, generally speaking, users of this forum tend to adhere to something called “Orthodox Judaism?” This small religious group holds that worshiping idols is wrong because of laws laid out for us in the Bible. We also do other stuff like observing the sabbath and wrapping phylacteries.
“They also stopped allowing comments on the Notre Dame fire. They also deleted a bunch.”
The comments were basically what an onlooker would consider Jewish Supremacism. Celebrating a national tragedy openly on mass media is a great way to make enemies.“I’m pro-Vaxx, but don’t you think it’s ludicrous that you had to get all three vaccines when you only needed one?”
It’s called an MMR booster. 1 shot, 3 vaccines. You would prefer if they split it into 3 different shots?
“The risks are low enough that it usually makes more sense to just give the revaccination rather than testing first.”
I think it gets tested at every routine physical when they test cholesterol levels and such, so I don’t see why you wouldn’t want to be tested. Like Charlie, I also recently got a booster and it cost over $100. My primary care physician didn’t have any because of a shortage, so I had to go to a place where my insurance wouldn’t cover it. The lesson: there are costs, and people who don’t need it should not be hogging it. It’s not infinite.
“The Satmar Rebbe hold that one keeps one day of Yom Tov in Israel, even if you are only a visitor”
The Lubavitcher Rebbe also supported going by where you are. I think there are different girsas on how the Baal HaTanya held… Gah, there I go again; exposing myself as a secret Lubavitcher. I haven’t really observed people travelling enough to know, but maybe it’s the standard Chassidishe minhag.
“Despite this severity however, the arguments have been laid out that this case is different because it is a Minhag Yisrael”
You’re the only one arguing that. You’re writing proofs which rely on an axiom not accepted as truth by anyone else, so no matter how hard you argue, it’s a waste of time. Nobody here believes a pop song that came out recently is a “minhag yisrael.” I don’t even think you truly believe that. It’s such an absurd argument that I have to conclude you’re either trolling or so obsessed with this song that you have it on repeat 8 hours a day and it’s started to adversely affect your logical reasoning/sanity.
Even if we were talking about a 100% uncontroversial, super frum, super Jewy pop song that definitely wasn’t A”Z, it would still be ridiculous to call it a “minhag yisrael.” You’re grasping for the weirdest of straws.
“I think a sukkah is not built in Reshus Horabim which belongs to the public.”
It’s a machlokes Machaber/Rema, which leads to a different question of how Ashkenazim keep sukkos at all in Brooklyn and Manhattan.
You might have just stumbled upon a really good support for the Rema’s psak: the fact that chazal were not gozer on carrying food out to the sukkah proves that they held of the one who says we can’t build sukkos in a reshus harabim.
“Keeping one day yom tov in Israel is neither a kula nor a chumra.”
He didn’t say it was either. You can’t decide how to posken based on what you think is “logical.” They asked their rov and they didn’t like his answer, so they did the wrong thing. No reason to complicate the story.
By the way, I also find the opinion (the Chacham Tzvi I think?) of going by where you happen to be more logical. The whole point of the thread is about going by your posek even when you don’t think the psak is logical.
Wouldn’t be surprising. They look out for their people over on the home page. It’s much more partisan than the great CR melting pot.
“The answer can be that there is no mitzva on each individual to lain on shabbos”
Why not say the same for shofar? I’m confused on the original kasheh. Why would a person be any more likely to carry matzah/wine on Pesach then he would be to carry challah/wine on a normal Shabbos?
My kasheh has always been why we have to eat in the sukkah on Shabbos. At least with lulav you could shake it in your house. Eating in the sukkah guarentees that you will carry outside. How do people do it who live in Brooklyn or Manhattan?
He’s not getting it. I’ve never witnessed a person love a song so much. He’s kind of making me want to go listen to it assuming it turns out that it’s not avodah zara.
Balance: If a community had a “minhag” to murder the 5th child born in every family, you could say all the same arguments you’re saying for this. I don’t think you realize the implications of a”z in halachah. Case and point, I bet you think it’s extreme for people to compare it to murder.
“and I was certain you are a Chabadsker, while pretending to be non-Chabad, yet quoting Baal Hatanya”
But, see, if I were a Lubavitcher, I would not have said what I said about the Rebbe and the modern day Chassidus; no Lubavitcher would do that even as a joke. Nor would any Litvak defend the slander of our gedolim even while in the process of an elaborate prank/joke. That was where you ruined your chances of convincing anyone you were a yeshivish person trolling for peace.
Anyway, I’m fascinated by this thread, but I don’t want to post too much. Sounds like a pain if the mods have to keep checking the spam folder just because of me. Sorry my mind immediately assumed there was a massive YWN conspiracy against me, guys.
“Some mods won’t allow this, others will. Like many things: it’s a machlokes haposkim.”
It’s gotten to be seemingly arbitrary lately. Those of us who maintain intentionally divisive accounts play roulette with every post. About 50% or more of my posts get mod’d out lately (ever since Purim) regardless of their content. I seem to be blocked from commenting on the homepage altogether.
I believe some mods would like to block my account altogether, but others would not. So, depending on who’s shift it is, I might not get through at all. But, we’ll never know because this will probably get blocked. I think it’s the morning shift guys that hate me. I wish they would just go ahead and confirm that so that I can stop wasting my time typing.
I believe most of your origin story as presented here, RGP, but I still suspect there’s more to it. It looked to me more like you came in as a Chabad-party-line purest at first and then changed course to throw us off the scent.
We’re not blocking you on purpose. You must’ve done something to upset the automatic spam filter – all of your posts are going to spam. Sorry for the inconvenience. We’re working on it.
“That is such a dumb OP. Just saying.
You cannot force anyone else to do something.”He isn’t talking about forcing. Let’s say the OP was worded like this “Some stores that advertise as being tznius only, sell clothes that are only tznius when you wear a long-sleeve shirt underneath. Sometimes, they put these clothes on mannequins without the undershirt because it makes it look more appealing. Is this possibly maris ayin as it causes people the think the outfit is tznius without an undershirt?”
I wouldn’t make any kind of deal out of it either, but hey, it’s not the dumbest thread on the CR by any means.
“Being too meikel is dangerous, and so is being too machmir. The bathwater needs to be clean, but don’t throw out the baby along with it.”
We’re talking about possibly being over on avodah zara, and you’re talking about a catchy tune you apparently like. I don’t think there’s any argument for worrying about “being too machmir.” If you have a legitimate source, people would probably hear you out. But, no rabbi in the history of the world (probably not even reform) is going to say that people should just chill out and not take avodah zara so seriously.
” I was asked the question by a gentile co-worker, I answered just like I dont dress like them I dont think like them on this issue.”
Good to see that rather than responding with facts, you’d prefer to just throw fellow yidden under the bus because they aren’t like you. The measles outbreaks were in Lakewood and Monsey, I believe, before they were in Williamsburg. The only reason people think this is a Chassidishe problem is because the goyishe media doesn’t know how to differentiate between various types of Orthodox.
To your credit, one thing you said is accurate. You certainly don’t think like a Chossid…
I could chat all day about hating on anti-vaxxers, but I hate to break it to you: these ones are still probably more frum than you.
If being really really really stupid pasul’d a person from being frum, the Orthodox population count would be much different. Nobody said you have to be a genius or never make mistakes to be frum. Their religiosity is not what’s in question here.
“I’m trying to figure out how a mannequin a tznius store, wearing tznius clothes isn’t tznius.”
Obviously, it’s not wearing tznius clothes. Tznius stores sell clothes that frum women often buy, but have to wear a shell underneath. They don’t always put the shell on the mannequin. There’s no chiyuv to, and I think the OP knows that; I’m pretty sure he’s just joking.“We go according to rov, and in fact we eat food made with unchecked b’dieved.”
Who says it’s b’dieved? (Not a rhetorical question, I’m actually curious). I thought things like mayonnaise and liquid egg in a carton were mutar l’hatchilah even though obviously nobody checked the eggs by eye. They check them in the factory with light censors, by the way.Avi,
Nobody is going to argue on your proofs. This thread isn’t about what people should do or have to do; it’s about what people actually do.
“Brilliant.”
Thank you.Lake:
I can’t tell if you’re trolling. Litvish just basically means Ashkenazi chareidi; people usually use the term Yeshivish in real life. You seem to be thinking of the word misnaged. Litvak does not carry a negative connotation, nor does it actually have to do with being Lithuanian anymore.You realize the town off of which your username seems to be based is the Litvish capital of America?
Lit:
“Ignorance is bliss. 🙂”
Is this conclusion also going on your mashal to blacks and hispanics or just kids? Is it also going on Chassidim?I’m going to start keeping a score of how many times this thread can go in the same circle:
The song is assur because it’s A”Z
But, we’re allowed to “transport niggunim”
This isn’t a stam niggun, it’s A”Z
But, we’re allowed to “transport niggunim”
……..
….
So far, I’ve counted 4. Not joking.“Is actually a reincarnation of Poppa Bar Abba. Thoughts?”
0 chance. Although, we all miss him enough to start randomly seeing him where he is not, this is not his style. His “trolling” was always pretty much just playful stuff that everyone enjoyed. Rebbitzin has seemingly created one of the most advanced, complex troll accounts in CR history.
I respect Rebbitzin in a lot of ways. It’s accounts like his that keep the CR interesting, but I have to wonder what kind of person would be behind such an account. It has to be someone who is relatively learned, probably went to yeshiva, and yet uses that knowledge exclusively for trolling.
Yeah, Litvish yeshiva bochrim don’t wear hats outside. Half of them don’t even wear them when davening.
Are we finally getting back to the original attention of this thread, which is to practice the holy Chabad minhag of criticizing the minhag of stealing matzah?
“It is foolish to conclude however, based on such appearances, that those are the happy people in the world, who have the truth, who should be emulated.”
Who said anything about emulating? Nobody is trying to convert you here. If every time you see a happy Chassidishe person you think it’s part of some marketing ploy to get you to be mevatel your own mesorah, then you have some weird personal quirks to work out.
” Not that CTL needs any help from me, I just am getting a bit tired of posters deciding that he has too much money and therefore is guilty of everything they have determined to be characteristic of that.”
Give me a break. He consistently demonstrates a disconnect with the lower economic brackets, he consistently says more tax burden should be shifted to the wealthy, then when the times comes to pay the pied piper, he whines about it. We aren’t going to apologize for supporting someone who saved us money just because it happened to cost blue state, ivory tower folks who were benefiting from scamming the rest of the country.
I’m assuming you’re suddenly rushing to his defense because you relate to his poor wittle rich man status. Everyone saw through the lies about caring about the less privileged and now both parties have hung your class out to dry. Pardon the rest of us if we enjoy watching you get your comeuppance.
Lol, the title says yeshivish, the post says hasidic, and the username says Chabad.
Assuming you are an unmarried Lubavitcher, the streets of LA are lined with 3 suits for $100 sales.
Lit:
He said “generally” not always. Exceptions to the rule don’t refute the generality.Also, since when is adhering to a minhag called a “stereotype?”
“I am illustrating the effects of the Trump tax scheme on me and my family.”
CTL: I’d rather just laugh at you than be serious, but in case anyone is actually taking what you’re saying seriously, let’s state the facts:
Previously, your blue state high taxes were masked by unfair deductions that shifted the tax burden to the rest of us.
Under Trump’s plan, the rest of the country stopped subsidizing your lavish-spending, blue state policies, so now you’re seeing how much the local politicians YOU supported have been costing you all these years.
And, naturally, you blame Trump.Taxes are lower on the middle class. People saying otherwise are probably rich people diluting themselves into believing they’re middle class as they so often do. If you’re making less than 70k for a household income, there’s no way upping the standard deduction to 24K didn’t help.
If you’re one of those people that puts ketchup on your eggs, I will consider you the epitome of evil.
No. Musar has very little to do with how the Litvish world works. You assume musar is to us as Chassidus is to you. It’s not a good mashal.
This makes me so happy. I saved huge thanks to Trump, and the wealthy blue state folks are paying through the nose. Can’t wait to reelect.
Their socio-economic/cultural setup is superior. It’s essentially what Yabia Omer said. The yeshivish world has tried to extend something naturally reserved for the elite to everyone, and it doesn’t work. Chassidim b’klal go to work when they move out, and learn in their spare time. Litvaks, meanwhile, look down on anyone who doesn’t have the wealth to be unemployed deep into life without any consequences. It’s created an unsustainable oligarchy which is crumbling and causing anyone who isn’t from a wealthy family to be miserable. Also, there’s the shidduch crisis…
I actually think it was somewhat of a misunderstanding. All of Reb’s proofs were for the din of stolen matzah, not mitzvah habaah b’aveirah. It seems like he thought I was talking about stolen matzah specifically rather than the misuse of a certain concept. I don’t think his subsequent comments were made after seeing my reply; it seemed like things got posted in a weird order. It might have just been my computer.
To the OP,
I don’t think anyone said it was the biggest funeral in American history, just the biggest Jewish funeral. I thought I had heard that the biggest overall was Rudolph Valentino, but upon googling it seems there have been several bigger ones.
“those who believe the Rebbe dies and is still moshiach are making a mistake but aren’t apikorsim, unlike the ones who say he’s alive.”
Source for this distinction? Why would it be worse to believe he’s alive and hiding somewhere?
Crazy? Yes. But, I don’t see why it’s halachically worse.“But you could have corrected me on the mistake that matza does not need to be “lachem” (yours) as a lulov. THAT is incorrect (Rosh Kiddushin 54b siman 18) holds you are not yotzeh with stolen matzah because it still belongs to owner, so it isn’t yours – lachem.”
Exactly. It’s not because of mitzvah habaah b’aveirah. You’ve gone through a lot of research over something sparked by a misunderstanding. I was talking about the use of “mitzvah habaah b’aveirah” in this context. Look in siman 649 with regards to stolen lulavim. You’re yotzi b’dieved on chol hamoed with no brachah because there’s no din of “lachem.” If you’re curious, you can take a look at that same siman in the S”A Harav; it reads quite differently in that regard. I’m not insulting his psak, just disputing that we hold universally by mitzvah habaah b’aveirah = pasul.
You saw that M”B explained the matzah’s din has to do with a gezeirah shavah to challah that requires it to be your’s? You saw the Be’er Heiteiv bring down the opinion that you’re yotzi with matzah that was carried out on Shabbos? It’s not because of mitzvah habaah b’aveirah.
P.S. my comment was meant more as banter. But, the fact that I seemed to actually deeply trolled you actually makes me really happy given your performance on the CR lately.
“The Satmar Rebbe , when a chosid told him over and questioned him about something he once said, reportedly said, ” Most of the things that people say I said, I never said.”
And I’m skeptical if he even said that.”So, if he didn’t say it, does that mean you don’t have to be skeptical? But, then you would assume he did say it. But, then you would assume he didn’t. This is like one of those riddles you tell an evil, self-aware computer so that it will short circuit and not take over the world.
Even if it were a true statement that minhag trumps halachah, that point would have no place concerning invented mesoras like Chabad. Otherwise, what would stop you from saying Reform Jews have a “minhag” to eat treif?
“The kids that stole the afikomon matzah, they can’t be yotzeh with the matza they stole – it’s mitzva ha’ba b’averah”
I know you’re just joking around anyway, but you realize that every major acharon except the Baal Hatanya poskens that mitzvah habah b’averah is still yotzi b’dieved? Did you accidentally out yourself as a Lubavitcher again? Or, is this all part of your incredibly intricate CR account build?iac:
The OU you referenced is understating it. The Machaber permits it, and the Rema does not; most Ashkenazim would not present that as “the Shulchan Aruch allows it.”
The OP’s question was, I believe, whether or not he could use matzah ashirah to make motzi (not al achilas matzah) so that his washing would not be wasted. I believe the entire shailah is built on false pretenses.