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Chabad logic:
“It’s totally untrue that Chabad forums bash other yidden! Those are comment sections on news and blogs not forums, that makes it totally OK!”The YWN home page comments are 99% a bash fest on other yidden too. I never claimed they weren’t. I’m not the one bringing comparisons into this; it’s you guys claiming to have clean slates when we all know you so don’t.
I honestly don’t understand this “tell a lie and then accuse your opponent of lying” angle. Anyone can just go and see that the Anti Tzemach has made several posts in 2019, and that CrownHeights info articles have comments (albeit moderated). Are you just banking on clueless readers of this forum trusting everything you guys say and assuming I’m lying?
RGP brings down rayes for what he’s saying. I’m not saying he isn’t twisting stuff, but he clearly isn’t an am haaretz, so explaining really beginner stuff to him like “staying up on Shavuos is not meakev” is not going to get you anywhere.
He’s concealing the knowledge of certain basic facts on purpose to get you to spoon feed it back to him; you end up looking like the one with the simplistic arguments.
The fake feminism has remained the most constant character trait of his account build. The inventing chumros by twisting halachos is a new one, and it’s interesting to see how quickly other posters forget what character he was playing just days before, and get fully immersed in his theme of the current thread. The egg chumrah thread, for example, was explicit in what it was doing from the beginning and was closed by mods. These recent ones are started in more subtle ways with more build up.
“The Chachomin according to the Rambam are ovar on Baal Tosif if they say fowl is assur biblically to eat with milk”
What’s the mashal to this thread? If you’re saying that the entire Sphardish oilam is over bal tosef by avoiding fish and milk, then obviously you know you’re wrong.And, don’t let RGP troll you into making a argument you don’t even actually mean. Just because the anti-BBQ thing is silly doesn’t mean such a concept of “non-Shabbosdik” and oneg Shabbos don’t exist.
“I guess the fact that there is no more Pale and that everyone is now scattered all across the globe really answers the entire question. Does it not?”
So, you agree that the Besht wasn’t involved with kiruv because it couldn’t have been applicable in his day? It’s unclear what point you’re making.“What is the alternative? The “mainstream denominations” are more concerned about bringing everyone including non-Jews for dues. Which do you prefer?”
By mainstream denominations you mean Conservative and Reform? Again, not seeing your point. The thread was about the historical timeline, not whether Chabad kiruv is preferable to Conservative/Reform, which obviously everyone agrees it is.CTL: I believe the point they are trying to make is that when the Besht spoke to the pushitah yidden who couldn’t afford to be in on the selective (at the time) yeshivish system, it was that era’s equivalent of kiruv. While today, it means reaching out to secular Jews. I don’t believe they are claiming the Besht was actually reaching out to Jews who were eating treif or had converted to Christianity; that would be a historical distortion. If you hold that kiruv is kiruv, as defined by today’s definition, then it’s like you and I said: it started in Chabad under the last Rebbe.
RGP: I just listed off several well-known Chabad sites, so it could theoretically be possible that one doesn’t have comments. However, I just checked, and Crown Heights info does allow them, so I have no idea what you’re talking about.
RGP: The Minhag Lubavitch is for men not to wash on seudah shlishis. To rehash stuff that has already been said on the CR: the Rema holds you can be yotzei shalosh seudos without bread. The Chabad minhag of avoiding bread seems to have started with the Tzemach Tzedek (according to posters here).
Milhouse:
“The origin of not eating fish with milk is definitely NOT a typo.”
“Almost all Ashkenazim rely on the Ramo, who says that the Beis Yosef made a mistake, נתחלף לו בשר בחלב”
By “typo” people might be referring to the shittah that it’s a mistake/he didn’t really mean it. Clearly that shittah is not “definitely” wrong when all Ashkenazim hold of it.I might just be misunderstanding your point, but where did you get the idea that achronim never hold that something in the S”A is a copier’s mistake?
People have brought up Chabad forums many times in the past; I’m not sure why you reserved the strategy of denial until now.
CrownHeightsInfo, ChabadInfo, Collive, The Anti Tzemach, etc… Of course, you’ll say that you don’t have to own anything said there because all the bad things being said are written by “not real Lubavitchers.” Please, spare us.
“BUT with all the ta’anos, I haven’t seen even once the ta’ana that they don’t eat seudah shlishis! Why is that?!”
It’s come up already. Sorry to disappoint.
Chabad forums are 99% a bash-fest on other yidden, primarily gedolim.
I would be interested in when Litvaks started doing kiruv. For Chabad, l’maaseh I think the answer is when the last Rebbe took power. Most of the stuff about it happening with previous Rebbes seems like an attempt to make their history backwards compatible.
“sought to redefine Judaism and the Jewish nation from being one based on the Torah”
Exactly. Who was the Prime Minister or President who famously said at the Olso accords something like “this is a big victory for Israeliism over Judaism?”“people think that the Zionists shmad the Jews in order to achieve a State.”
It’s also worth pointing out that this original aim of Zionism has been proven wrong. They were correct that the goyim viewed us as unwelcomed guests sitting on their land, but they were wrong in assuming that would halt if we established a state. The goyim are no less Antisemitic on account of the state.“They are legally required to label these products “non-dairy”, because that is what they are.”
Sorry, but I straight up don’t believe this at all. I have plenty of parve things in my fridge that don’t say “non-dairy.”“That also answers NC’s concerns about ethics.”
Even if such a legal requirement did for sure exist, that wouldn’t change my mind. I would just conclude that the law is unethical. US law isn’t Torah. Jews cannot treat it as non-dairy and vegans can’t eat it, so what is it accomplishing other than tricking people? If it were for allergies, it could say lactose-free.Saying Zionism ended with the creation of the state is like saying feminism ended with women’s suffrage.
When these movements get what they ask for, they don’t go away. They just become empowered and turn into monsters.
Ziongate: what makes you so sure RGP isn’t actually Joseph?
“Why would it matter what a “kofer” thinks about Zionism????”
Did the inquisitive OP ever express the belief that Chabadniks are kofrim? Have any of us who did argue against Chabad in other threads actually expressed any interest in Chabad’s shittah here? Like I said, I know Chabad’s shittah on Zionism. It’s the same as the Litvish (just like havarah). The majority of this thread turned into Zionists vs Anti-Zionists, Satmar/Friends-of-Satmar vs. Anti-Satmars, etc.“The same argument was whether to join the Kneses. If the religiious don’t join, they will do whar they want without objections.”
That’s a fine logical/political argument, but it’s not a halachic one. If it’s assur to serve in the government, then it’s assur. Doesn’t matter what the chilonim will do without you being there.Casein is a stabilizing agent derived from milk ; it probably doesn’t add taste, but it serves the purpose in making the thing what it is. Bittul b’shishim does not apply. Sorry. As the hechsher correctly states, it’s dairy.
As far as the legal standards, I don’t think the OP was claiming to have a legal complaint. Ethically, is there something wrong with using a dairy product in your food and calling it “non-dairy” because it flies under the legal standards? I personally believe so, but that’s not an argument not to hechsher it.
This is ancient news.
By the way, the casein probably has a din of cheese. If you don’t usually hold by the OU’s kulos on soft cheeses with regards to gevinas akum, it could be a problem altogether.
Jdf, nobody said it’s assur to live in Israel. I don’t know where you got that idea. The controversy is about establishing statehood.
Joseph: Litvaks take money from the state; that’s a pretty huge difference. Unless you’re only referring to the ones associated with Eidah Chareidis.
Ha! So, I was right to use “RGP!” Take that, Avi!
We could technically all compromise on RGPANSN to reflect the full name.
I don’t really know yiddish. Part of me suspects that this word is used as a euphemism for something else given that they blocked it.
So, he originally had tried to make it something inappropriate?
I’m actually surprised they didn’t edit it. That’s the type of Satmar-hating garbage I would expect to see on home page comments, but not here.
It’s definitely Golden Pick, like a pickax for mining:
Rebitzin Golden Pick: A Better Screenname.In no particular order:
The Rashab did not live at the same time as the Medina; it wasn’t clear whether or not everyone here realized this.Wrapping tefillin next to tzoah is lo taaseh, not a mitzvas aseh. However, I would argue with the one who said Lubavitchers actually do this and his/her understanding of “next to.”
Satmars do not wish for Israelis to be slaughtered; that’s religious Zionist propaganda that’s trickled into frum circles apparently. There were yidden living there before the medina, which was no problem. The problem is the government, which they hold is assur b’hanaah. For the “its here, get used to it” argument, you wouldn’t find chometz during pesach and say “well, now that it’s here it would be silly not to get any benefit from it, so I should sell it.” If something is assur l’halachah, you can’t matir it “because it’s there.” That’s an absurd argument. Our gedolim had their real reasons to argue on the Satmar Ruv, and it definitely wasn’t “it’s here; get used to it.”
“For every anti-Israel movement on the left, there are people chanting Jews Will Not Replace Us on the right.”
The difference is, those doing it on the left are now actually represented by prominent members of the Democratic party. The Anti-Semetic right has not worked its way significantly into the Republican party yet. They run as weird stuff like “Constitutionist” or “Libertarian.” Also, statistically, there are more antisemites on the left.RGP:
I shave, but keep cholov Yisroel, but that’s a good point. I should start eating cholov stam now. Thanks for the heter, buddy.” I can feel good being super-machmir on a halacha I like (and proudly call muself a chareidi machmir with “high standards”)”
Yeah, you can do that. Most of us don’t have weird inferiority complexes and just go with the flow without needing to constantly re-confirm our views.akup:
I’m sorry, but that’s a cop out. Half of the world’s Jewish population lives in Israel. It’s worth talking about. Surely you wouldn’t suggest the Rashab’s shittos on this, and the entire sefer of the Satmar Ruv are “non-Torah,” and “not important.”Haimy: “This does not seem in line with the Shita of the Rashab.”
That depends, do you have a source on what the Rashab said about using subtle deception for the purposes of potentially being mekarev thousands? That’s what this is really about. I don’t say the word deception as an insult. All kiruv organizations “wait until people are ready” to reveal certain things. That Chabad rabbi knows exactly what frum people mean when they say Zionist vs. Anti-Zionist, and he knows where real Chabad falls on that spectrum.It’s not a competition, but what you’re saying is simply not true. I understand Chabad’s stance; it’s pretty much the same as my own. But, if you don’t hold like the VaYoel Moshe, then you can’t claim to be more anti-Zionist than Satmar.
Chabad accepts the reality that the Zionist movement was founded and led by people who hate the Torah. Satmar, on the other hand, wouldn’t care if it was led by the Tzadik Hador. They hold it’s inherently assur and that the state is essentially assur b’hanaah.
This would be like a guy selling chometz during Pesach and saying “in theory, I’m even stricter about chometz than frum people; I just happen to derive benefit from it anyway since it’s here.”
“Until the Democrats are on the same level as the Nazis in regards to their anti Israel and anti Semitic stance?”
The Muslim ones for sure already are. You mean how long will it be until they all are?RGP:
I’m aware of that situation, but that’s not a machlokes about the halachic implications of Zionism. At the end of the day, they still both believed that it was mutar to be involved in the government.And, lol stop pretending to not be a Lubavitcher. This is one shittah of which you can be proud. Land-for-peace has been totally disastrous.
Lakewhut: “Ubiquitin some still want to live in a ghetto in Hungary or Poland.”
And, some want to live in Soviet Russia and have their children conscripted by an army that will forcefully secularize them. I refer, of course, to the Zionists.“We learn shulchon aruch harav bit that only works for the simonim we have but for the ones we the Rebbe said we should learn MISHNA BRURAH.”
Source? I know you learn regular S”A for the missing simonim, but I hadn’t heard you learn M”B. I’m pretty sure I’ve heard Chabadniks call it misnagdish. Is this going to be another schism between the crazy new-age Chabadniks and the “real” Chabadniks?“We do that thing that drives people crazy where we say, beshita we’re more anti-Zionist than Satmar”
You say that solely to drive people crazy? You surely realize you are much less anti Zionist than Satmar.Sechel summed it up nicely. On this issue, Chabad sees eye to eye with the Yeshivish world. As is evidenced by the fact that it was never brought up as an arguing point in 10,000+ posts of Chabad wars.
“Even today, you will get very different and often convoluted explanations of exactly how their is no contradiction in simultaneously being “pro-Israel” and “anti-Zionist”.”
That’s true of almost the entire frum community with the exception of the Neturei Karta (if they count). It’s not like we’re pro Palestinian chas v’shalom. You can be against the tenets of the Zionist movement without pulling for the terrorists.Everyone’s approach will seem “convoluted” to those on the outside. The Litvish approach of participating in government while claiming to be anti probably seems convoluted to the Satmars. The Lubavitch approach of serving in the IDF (correct me if that’s only Chabad-lite) while claiming to be anti seems convoluted to us. Fundamentally, Chabad considers the founding fathers of Zionism to be bad people, while the religious Zionists consider them to be heroes. They might keep it under wraps on account of kiruv, but it seems like Chabad’s views on Zionism are relatively in-line with the Litvish views. Admittedly, Chabad is unquestionably the least anti-Zionist Chassidus.
1 account 1 reply.
Hmm…. Classic maneuver. Might have worked in 2010.
“First straight out lie”
Well, I’m glad you think it’s my first.“what exactly encourage you to say this?????”
The fact that’s it’s true combined with the fact that it fits in rather nicely with my back-and-fourth with RGP.They changed Rebbes twice since the Rashab.
Here’s a clue:
“clean shaven Chassidishe bachurim/yungerman”
Who exactly would fall into this category?“Pronouncements are made in Shulchan Oruch, as specifically choosing a chazzon WITH A BEARD”
And, the meforshim clarify that this means anyone past the age at which men usually grow beards, including anyone who happens to be unable to grow a beard (eg. the late Kaliver Rebbe).
As for my “envy.” I’m not envious. I’m sort of impressed actually. But, theoretically, there could be less learned people here, and I think they should realize the truth so that you don’t trick them. As a side note, glad to see your trolling career has forced you to look into the Mishnah Berurah. That’s something most Lubavitchers wouldn’t do.
I don’t even use the word oriental; I will just always pick an argument with the PC police.
Don’t be fooled into believing this “pet peeve” stuff. They all say that. Really, liberals like CTL love it when someone says words like that because it gives them the opportunity to “correct” them. They get weird joy from it. It’s like a game to them.
And, Rebbitzin, obviously he’s more likely to adopt an oriental than a colored girl. Orientals put a lot of females up for adoption due to the child-limitations.
“In short it should go both ways if you let people argue against chabad then let people defend them also and if you let people bash chabad then let people bash litvish also”
They have let through all the standard Litvish arguments against Chabad and all the Chabad arguments against us. When people cross the line, they usually get modded. I don’t know where you’ve been, but a certain anti-Chabad account or two was getting deleted or edited on nearly every post.I think comments made my Lubavitchers on another thread, specifically Rebbitzin Goldenpick, about gedolim crossed the line and I was surprised they were let through. The same has clearly happened to you on the other side.
In contrast, by the way, I will grant you that the home page is extremely biased and anti-Chassidishe. They have daily 2 minutes of Satmar hate over there.
“Where exactly does the ”Torah ” forbid shaving?”
Wait, do you really not know? Because, if you’re shaving with a straight razor then you’re for sure over an issur d’oraysa. The implication here is that we’re talking about trimming and electric shaving.RGP:
I don’t know how much I can say because of certain rules (which I understand and agree with).
But, if you did what it seems like you did, then bravo. Probably the most elaborate YWN trolling in all of history.Joseph:
That wasn’t a halachic analysis article; it was sponsored content. I think it was sponsored by you-know-who.The book is clearly self-published. With a little extra research… Stuff is starting to make sense around here.
To either clarify or prove my point that you are modding to cover-up problems I believe this is the point that bothered you:
The Litvish velt has a shidduch crisis that produces a surplus of single FFB girls who were not able to find a FFB boy to marry. The corresponding kiruv system focuses disproportionately on males and uses these desperate girls as tools to lock in the BTs who otherwise have a decent OTD rate. My opinion is that this practice is immoral.
“your incorrect assumption about why it was deleted.”
So, nu? Why was it deleted? If you don’t tell us the reason how are we supposed to do anything other than assume?I would be happy to give more “clarity,” but why wouldn’t you just mod that out also?
“That’s one way to shift the blame.”
From whom to whom? Me to you? If I say something that’s true about the yeshivish world, but it’s a “hard to swallow pill” and the mods decide that it’s better off kept under wraps, then I don’t consider there to be one side objectively at fault.If one believes that we should hide our issues from the rest of the world like Chabad does, then I’m to “blame” for daring to say it in the first place. If one believes that forums like the CR should be a medium to discuss real issues, then I think there’s an argument to be made for not censoring out that stuff. Clearly, that isn’t how YWN holds.
If it’s your policy, I’m not saying you’re doing anything wrong by modding those types of comments. But, when you let people expose just about anything in other groups, you can expect people to be surprised when the censorship is stricter on Litvish exposes. It would do good to just call a duck a duck: this is a extremely partisan site. Nothing wrong with that as long as you’re honest about it.
Things aren’t modded because of being “bitter pills to swallow “. You assume that based on your lack of clarity over either what you said along with your ‘point’, or, as is most often the case, your incorrect assumption about why it was deleted. Which I think has been brought up several times.