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You really shouldn’t order something that you know will arrive on Shabbos. It’s been a while since I’ve learned about these halachos, but I think it might even be a problem if it arrives within a certain time after Shabbos. I think this is one of those “the masses are lenient and we don’t rebuke” areas.
Thanks, golfer. Yeah I was worried that would happen. Makes me look kind of dumb now.
YWN included Rav in the title if I remember correctly. You MO’s will really grasp for anything to be offended won’t you?
It’s slipping away from me. It starts with an S and comes from the story in which one tribe ousts someone as being from another tribe (I think Benyamin) because they ask them to pronounce THIS word, and they say the shin like a sin, right?
I’ve forgotten the word, though.
Why would it be a problem? Why would it even be something people say to denigrate? Does “JB” have an inappropriate meaning that I don’t know about?
RebYidd, thanks for proving my point. That’s exactly the response a pro-PC leftist such as yourself would give.
Avi, it’s also why some shuls will not only say the prayer for the state, but also foam at the mouth when they hear that anyone omits it.
“As a side point, Sephardic men generally rely on the Brocha of the Tallis Gadol to cover them on their Tallis Koton – possibly because there is a “Safek Brochos” on it. Children that don’t wear a Tallis yet, are generally trained to make a Brocha on their Tallis Koton – until they get older and wear a full size Tallis.”
My understanding was that, unlike Ashkenazim, they DO make a brachah on both. Can anyone else weigh in on this?
OK RebYidd. Go to a college campus and say “America’s SAT scores are skewed downwards due to the fact that we have more poorly performing minorities than European countries.” Then come back and tell me there’s no political correctness.
I noticed at a Sphardi shul, some of the pre-Bar Mitzvah kids wear them in a non-halachically-correct way (like the reform Jews do). Anyone heard of this?
ZD:
You first denied the tzius problem that the MO has and everyone can see, then you criticized Agudas for actually taking initiative to solve it’s (possible) internal problems. Thank you for proving my point.
From my experience, avoid it. Unless you live in an area with a lot of frum Jews, so the goyim will have already have a lot of exposure, they will think we’re crazies.
Alternatively, you could say that the MO shuls pull the pants wearers and shul-talkers away so that they don’t end up at the Orthodox Orthodox shuls. That’s kind of a backwards way of looking at the MO optimistically.
“Beating up people for Gets, in the USA , Is a Chilul Hashem.”
That we can absolutely agree upon.
And, you’re right about Charedi Rabbis not kicking people out. Nonetheless, the Charedi world does not have the same problems as the MO. I imagine if women started showing up in pants, the Rabbi would start working in lessons about hilchos tznius that would make them feel really uncomfortable and either leave or change.
ZD, right-wing shuls don’t have any legal authority to enforce dress codes either, yet they don’t have the same problems. As DY pointed out, I didn’t say anything about enforcing. I DID, however, say something about people making straw man arguments… Perhaps you missed that.
Let’s not staw man. The issue here isn’t on making any kind of agreement on anything pre-marriage. The issue is that of the compulsory get. Avi, Chazal abolished practices in their day that insured the get would always be given. I don’t see how anyone can even argue that there’s any ambiguity in the halachah here. Also, I wasn’t only talking about this when I spoke about catering to the feminists. There’s also the little fact that probably more than half of the women in RCA communities wear pants and the RCA remains continuously silent and let’s the problem get worse.
Yeah, the RCA and the OU are Judaism’s “too big to fail” organizations, and they know it.
“The RCA caters to its customers. Note the very specific reference their press release makes regarding “activists” (and even lists them prior “scholars”).
They lick their finger and stick it into the air to see which way the wind of public opinion is blowing, and based on that they issue their resolutions to meet their clientele’s demands.”
Exactly. And that’s exactly what the Conservative movement did. Cater to the feminists and the lazy so that you’re left with the worst. Hopefully the RCA will go into rapid decline just like the Conservative movement now is. The saddest part is that the Zionists have forced geirus to be monopolized by the RCA in America. What will happen when the RCA finally REALLY flies the coup and the greater community completely swears them off as non-Orthodox?
To answer the OP’s question with my own opinions, no I don’t think it’s OK to give money with strings attached to basically bribe in either case. I think it’s hypocritical when the hardcore Zionists rebuke the chareidim for not taking state money, but then turn around and talk about the importance of making Israel financially independent for reasons that would apply in both cases.
Akuperma, I think the OP implied your points in his post. His question is, if Israel shouldn’t give money (bribe) the chareidim to act as they would like them to, why should we be OK with the US doing just that to Israel?
There are certainly posters denying that they’re being “persecuted.” They’re being PROSECUTED. And, don’t say the jury is still out; you can see in the article that they’ve been found guilty of kidnapping in the past. I don’t see how a kidnapper can be considered “righteous” just because they go to extremes like making their girls dress like Muslims, completely ignoring the Chasam Sofer’s “anything new is assur.”
We look out for each other in the frum community, but you have to know when to draw the line. It is possible that people who look totally frum, actually are not fully sane and are doing very bad things.
If the kids are being taken away, they should be sent to normal Torah observant communities to be raised how they should have been in the first place. Unfortunately, the authorities will probably secularize them and they’ll all end up being interviewed on liberal news networks about how horrible Judaism is. Don’t any of you forgot, probably well over 50% of goyim consider all Orthodox Jews to be a cult. You can pretty much get that vibe if you watch 2 minutes of the clip with the YWN article. Even if this is the end of Lev Tahor, it’s far from being the end of their legacy being used by the secularists…
Obviously it varies, but I think it’s safe to say that the general answer to the OP’s question is that using the Gra’s times is more popular. As you can see on this very thread, there are people who use M”A for chumra reasons sometimes. I think just about anyone admits that the Gra’s times are calculated in the more precise way than those of the M”A; it’s just a popular chumrah to satisfy all opinions on Biblical issues.
DY is right. Close the thread. CA’s comment should have been mod’d out in the first place. We all know that there are some people in this world that cope with any given tragedy by grasping for straws to try and blame the victims. That’s something that SHOULD be a “frum” issue unlike country roads.
And, while we’re at it, is it really possible that people live in such a backwards bubble that they think walking down an urban road in say Brooklyn NY is safer simply on account of the presence of sidewalks than a road in a country town in which violent crimes happen maybe once every 10 years?
Yes, you’re going to say that the coin dealers COULDN’T just buy directly from the “mint.” Just like how the guy with the winning lottery ticket CAN’T cash it himself so he just has to sell it to you for 100 bucks.
I believe it’s you who aren’t reading what I wrote. Why would any of us work if these free money scams were real?
Yeah I’ve accidentally gone to YWN without my ad blocker on and it is traumatizing.
I still hold strongly that we are all talking about the same coin scam, it’s just a matter of whether or not you’ve fallen for it. It’s just a variation of the “I can’t cash this winning million dollar lottery ticket, can you do it for me? I’ll just need a measly 100 dollar deposit.” Or any telephone, free-yacht kind of scam. You get “free money” which somehow the seller can’t get themself, and they NEED you to do it for them. I’m not going to argue this any longer. At a certain point, I don’t really sympathize with the victims when it’s kind of like economic natural selection: if you’re dumb enough to fall for these, you don’t deserve to have money. I do, however, feel bad for elderly victims; they have an excuse. And, they’re who’s being targeted based on form of media (radio, religious news sites, etc.)
OK, so where is the CR standing on this one, troll or not troll? I’m trying to be relatively discrete here, but I think it’s crossed many of our minds by now.
Meno, no, forget about the coin thing. I should have made it a separate sentence. I was talking about how people seemed to be arguing that the mere act of selling something for more than you bought it constitutes a scam.
The coin (assuming it’s like all coin scams that are advertised) is probably something that leads people to believe they are buying at a cheap price and they will be able to sell for more. Apparently even some YWN readers were convinced. In reality, you would never be able to sell it for more because it’s garbage. These scams are all over the radio and TV channels that older people watch. They target people who have lost some of their wits.
Sparkly is a female? It’s a problem with tefillin and possibly other issues for a guy to have long hair. But, if we’re talking about an unmarried female, why would it matter? Am I missing something from another thread?
These things are so, unambiguously scams. I’m also really shocked they get put on YWN. And not just adds either. I have a umm… kosher… internet filter that magically makes all banner adds go away. Sometimes these things are posted as articles.
I’m not really understanding the argument this thread is descending into. I’m sure this coin thing is just a scam, but generally speaking, are people saying that buying something and selling it for more is a scam? Do you realize how every store in the world works?
Gavra, Yekke clarified that he was just speaking about situations he’s personally seen. In his experience, Kollel families have better exposure to Torah values. Not everything has to be part of a larger, blanket statement.
To the thread in general: Don’t criticize others until you’re on their level. Everyone in this forum has SOME threshold when it comes to who is in the school with your kids (i.e. if you send your kids to Orthodox school, you have a reasonable expectation that there won’t be militantly Atheist secular Jews with them). Some people have a different threshold on this matter than others. That was Yekke2’s point, and he’s spot on.
Now, I’m only referring to thresholds when it comes to religiosity. If it were a matter of rich, Upper-West-Side parents turning their noses up at kids who were more religious because of their economic status it would be different. And it would get a lot less ink.
CTRebbe: I googled that quote, and DeCartes DID say that!
The point I made wasn’t conspiracy theorizing. The fact of the matter is that smoking is a lot more prevalent in religious-right communities than it is in the MO. Members of the MO often claim that’s because their poseks assur it (it’s really probably more a matter of social class).
If you have to listen to MO’s long enough, you’re bound to hear one eventually say “smoking is a perfect example of where we’re actually MORE strict than those crazy black-hatters,” or some such thing. It gets old. Yes, I was accusing this thread of being one of such cases and I stand by that.
“Neville ChaimBerlin – that is SOOO different. so now you want to tell me that your definition of modern is someone who watches TV and listens to not jewish music and goes to movies? Thats considered regular like me NOT mo like the only people who dont are the rabbis kids. i happen to have a mo rabbi as well but i dont consider going to movies, listening to not jewish music, watching TV mo its NOT going against the Torah. Breaking shomer, wearing pants, etc.. are going against the Torah.”
What??? When did I ever say anything like that? Are you saying smoking is analogous to breaking shomer or watching TV? I really can barely understand this paragraph.
Smoking is the MO’s favorite topic to bring up. It’s where they get to say that, because they don’t do it, they’re really better than everyone more stringent than them. There is probably a greater number of pokim who assur smart phones than there are they assur cigarettes. Would you consider iphone users “OTD?”
Sparkly: Feminism is not just saying ladies should take “stem” classes. The feminists are saying women should get priority on all the jobs over men, that women should get better pay than men (the claim that their current pay is worse is false. They’re lying now, so I don’t know what makes people think they’ll stop once they get their way).
People probably thought Feminism would go away when women’s suffrage was granted, or when affirmative action gave them an unfair advantage, but it didn’t. They will just keep asking for more like when you give a dog a little piece of human food: it doesn’t go away satisfied, it just begs even more.
Others were also just stating facts. Like the fact that Feminism is unambiguously incompatible with Judaism.
Indeed. In Swahili, gut doesn’t mean anything. Because it’s not a Swahili word.
RebYid acting like forced marriages are only a tragedy for the girl, Moderators hoping for cat fights… This is all extremely entertaining, but I’m still wondering why nobody took my bait. This place isn’t what it used to be…
I thought Sphardim would even during the week of Tisha B’av since they don’t do the haircut-avoiding as a sign of mourning. I might be wrong though.
I had this exact same question as the OP; glad to see I wasn’t the only one. Yeah, the answer is apparently no.
You can say git, gut, tov, whatever, but it is NOT “good Shabbos.” What you are trying to say is “gut Shabbos.”
Whew. Had to get that out. Anyway, I hope everyone here had a lovely Shabbos and is having an equally enjoyable week.
In a lot of communities men are 22 or 23 and women are significantly younger. Thus, in a growing population, there’s a deficit of men for the women……..
How has this thread not gone in this direction yet?
If the Federation is explicitly the enemy of yiddishkeit then why would Yeshivahs want to “get involved” with it?
The CT day schools mentioned here are dwindling and willing to take money where they can. There are a lot of completely irreligious students who, for whatever reason, go to MO day schools sometimes. I heard they even take in Chinese goyim sometimes who hear that those schools turn out better SAT scores.
Before I get accused of discrimination, if we were all OK with sending the kids to school with a bunch of chilonim and goyim, we would just send them to public school with a kosher meal in their lunchbox and wait to teach them Torah when they get home and save tens of thousands per year. We all know why that’s not done.
Clearly a troll. Everyone knows that REAL Orthodox Jews would never go to med school.
People are still going on about this? I thought it was settled.
RoB: You usually can rely on Avi as an ally when you’re arguing with the religious right; when even he disagreed with you, it was time to pack up and move on. It was NOT time to accuse him of “siding with the machmirim” as though it’s some kind of vice. Saying it’s mutar to ride trains and buses on Shabbos is like saying it’s mutar to flick on and off LED lights. You can make the argument, but you and everyone else here knows that it’s rejected by–I think we can pretty much say–everyone. If you were using the bus and train argument to show DY that buses and trains are not comparable to escalators, I would say you are a brilliant debater. But, you fell into your own straw-man and starting actually defending taking a bus to shul.
As for the doctor, didn’t the Rambam say it’s preferable NOT to use a Shabbos goy in cases of pikuach nefesh? (If that’s not mainstream let me know. I don’t want to join the ranks of people to argue with Rambam poseks that nobody holds by).
Exactly. Such a pleasure to see frum yidden of varying levels of observance respecting each others beliefs from the extreme machmirim like RoB to the hard-line-religious-leftists like DY.
OK perfect. RoB admits that the analogy to trains/subways is correct, so he and DY are in agreement.
DY: I said the same thing, but he just restated his original argument as a rebuttal.
RoB: So I guess you can turn up a stove burner on Shabbos? Turn up the brightness on a light with a dimmer? All of the things you mentioned are exceptions because they only might cause more energy to be used. If something definitely causes it, it’s different.
yehudayona: I mentioned the kind with that mechanical switch, but many newer models don’t have that. Like I said, perhaps the Shabbos elevators have it, but it’s becoming rare otherwise.
RoB: I never said anything about Avi K.