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Hope this isn’t considered derailing since the title technically mentions Chabad specifically:
Do you guys think the system would work for other kiruv organizations, or does it only work because Chabad has become somewhat of a kiruv culture (I don’t mean that as an insult). Most Lubavitchers at this point are either baalei teshuva or involved in kiruv so it’s pretty easy for people to fit in with so much uniqueness.
To give a specific hypothetical case of what I’m asking: say a Litvish kiruv family raised kids on a campus in rural Iowa or something. The kids go off to summer camp and learn online like Chabadshlucha said. Then when they grow up they try to move to Lakewood. Would they fit in? My guess is no.
“Not true – that is cross-pollination, or cross-breeding, and does not fall under the GMO rubric.”
You’re correct. I looked into it and it looks like hybrid corn also is not technically a GMO, so that was my mistake.
Even if they send them off at age 11 or 13, their spending the formative years of there life with no experience in a frum community.
I think not enough kids brought up in such homes have reached adulthood yet for us to see what happens. My prediction would be that they will not frei out, but that they will be really visibly weird and different if they try to live in a normal community.
My big question is how those kids could go on to become shluchim themselves. The whole point is that someone from the religious world brings a taste of that to the outside. If you’re raised in a “hick town” and them become a shliach there, how are you going to answer questions about living in a frum community? You’re just as inexperienced as the chilonim.
99% sure this is a troll thread, but there is a 1% chance that just is just another sad case of someone woefully uninformed on what GMO’s are.
When Gregor Mendel changed color of pea pods by moving pollen from one type of pea plant to another (the same way bees do), the resulting plant is technically a genetically modified organism. The genetically modified corn that yields more ears per plant is similarly done using farming techniques with pollination. The uninformed masses seem to think they’re shooting death rays over crops to turn them into evil GMO’s.
I was referring to “doped up like an elementary school kid” I think it was.
Joseph, if your work is done 10 years from now, what will you do?
I was always annoyed when Open Orthodox posters like Charlie or rebdoniel would make weird, extreme statements like “black hats are beged isha,” but I’ve come to miss that since they’ve left.
Wow, finding that old thread was a fascinating read into the history of the CR. The moderation was a LOT more lax back then and we apparently used to have openly non-Orthodox posters.
There were pop-culture references made back then that you never see anymore in the CR. There was a username so inappropriate that I don’t want to say it in this post or I fear it will be mod’d out.
I have to ask, and I know this will get me in trouble with some posters, when did the tradition begin of claiming everything Joseph says is radical? The thing that got everyone fired up on that thread was the assertion that “Reform, Conservative, and Reconstructionism aren’t Judaism.” I think that’s the mainstream stance of almost all of today’s CR users.
Do you guys think it’s good that there less of a wide range of opinions here today? We obviously come here seeking out a certain bias, but maybe it was more fun back then. I wasn’t around to know.
“And people who are stupid enough to drive while high or drunk are possibly the same set of people who use substances despite their illegality.”
Ahh yes, another area of overlap between this and the gun debate: “people will break the law anyway, so we might as well just have no law.” Clearly there are more drunk drivers than high drivers; nobody denies that. I think pretty simple logic suggests that that’s because alcohol is legal and available in bars. The illegality of pot forces users to use it privately. If it were legal and there were pot-bars, there would obviously be more DUI incidents with it.
If you all admit that tobacco and alcohol are bad, why are you advocating for introducing a third, bad thing into the mix? Is it just that you think if people are going to harm their health and that of others, they deserve to have more options of how to do it? Or, is it the more likely reality that you have all gotten so used to arguing the liberal side of every point that you’re virtually incapable of having a real, personal opinion that is in line with your own beliefs instead of those of the greater leftist cause?
And, while we’re at it, another faulty argument that bothers me is the comparison of drunk driving accidents to high driving accidents. This is exactly like when the claim is made that “guns are safer than toasters” or some such thing.
What you need to compare is the conditional probability that one will get in an accident given that he’s high vs. given that he’s drunk. The fact that there are more accidents caused by alcohol isn’t even worth mentioning because drunk driving is probably a million times more common than high driving.
DY is actually right about the science. Pot has more carcinogenic content than tobacco; the real question is why do so many people believe it’s the other way around?
For starters, people who smoke tobacco often smoke 20 cigarettes. Nobody is smoking 20 reefers a day. Pot smokers who do end up with lung cancer have always been people who also smoked tobacco, so there’s never been a case of someone getting lung cancer purely from pot (to my knowledge). That is the basis of the “pot doesn’t cause cancer” myth. Breathing in campfire smoke, coal smoke, paper burning smoke, etc. is bad for your lungs. The idea that there’s this one magical plant that breaks that rule is laughable.
I think there’s a real halachic debate to be had, especially about whether or not it would be theoretically mutar on Purim, but clearly that’s not the direction this thread went. The pro-pot posters have made their agenda very clear.
Unicorns and Leprechauns are now illegal is Nevereverland. Yaaaayyy
“You attack me to make yourself look good, yet you still take a shot at chabad in your response. Well played.”
Where did I look good or attack Chabad? How many posters and mods have to directly criticize your rhetoric before you get it? This isn’t some giant conspiracy against you like you seem to be thinking.
You don’t deny the fact that Chabadshlucha was not being elitist here, because you can’t. You don’t deny the fact that every thread on which you post becomes a Chabad fight, because you can’t. This isn’t even entirely about Chabad; this is every bit as much about you derailing every other thread. It’s just getting annoying.
About “many” of your comments not getting modded out. I notice it took a very long time for that last comment to get out of “awaiting moderation.” Going to guess it took at least an edit or two to get through. Am I wrong?
Litvish: Did I say that meant nobody knew about them? It was you making the assertion that everyone knows about them. There are plenty of us here who really couldn’t care less what it says in Hayom yom and don’t consider any it “common knowledge.”
“they do it in such a way as to belittle everyone else and to persuade you and “prove” to you, why their Torah way is the correct one. Thats why it bothers me. And no, it wasnt just some lubavitcher that “offended” me, it is the general nowadays lubavitch mindset.”
What you describe might be a general problem common to Chabad, but Chabadshlucha has not been guilty of it here. Even if 99% of Lubavitchers were asinine (which I’m not saying is the case), it wouldn’t make it right for you to jump all over one of them in the 1% who’s actually making an honest effort to be respectful.
To bring her point home, this is a thread about Gog and Magog. It became another Chabad fight thread. There’s a clear trend of that happening with every thread with which you’re involved. If you were wondering why you feel like you’re on thin ice with the mods, that’s probably why.
I don’t see why state law comes into this. There’s nothing stopping them from getting a legal divorce, right?
Litvish: Are you an ex-Lubavitcher or something? Who care’s how much Hayom yom Chabadshlucha knows? I’m not familiar with any of the Chabad shittahs that you say are “well known” on this thread.
As to the media thing, the “balance” you describe simply doesn’t exist. Every single major media outlet is deeply leftist: NPR, CNN, MSNBC, CBS, every college radio station, etc. All conservatives have is Fox, which isn’t even consistently conservative. When Trump was running in the primaries, every liberal outlet targeted him, and even Fox had a clear bias against him (they liked the “safe” [RINO] candidates like Rubio).
Serious question: If a Sphard found himself in this situation, would he not need the heter meah? Could he just get a heter from 1 Rabbi?
“It is by far more important that the person who will lead the davening suffer and cry through the screaming of the words be married. That’s where we’re holding now.
I hope that the Maharil isn’t reading this blog.”Why do we get this garbage through? The CR should preserve some integrity.
“For the rest of the year, there is no such restriction.”
For a professional, paid chazzan the rules apply year round (married isn’t the only one). For a casual Chazzan, it doesn’t apply. No matter, I have a sneaking suspicion that this thread was not made to discuss the halachah of chazzanim, but rather an opportunity to get on the soap box about a personal pet peeve.
I was under the impression, as are many people I have met, that the Temple Institute believes we are allowed to rebuild the Beis Hamikdash ourselves (without moshiach).
Either they really do believe that, or they play up the misconception in their ads because they know if brings in the dough.
For those saying it was located elsewhere, those people are probably what you would call Biblical Nihilists. They base all of their theories and beliefs off of whatever is the opposite of the words of the Tanach, even if archeological evidence suggests otherwise. In secular society, as stupid as this approach is, it sells a lot of books. What I’ve always found ironic is that if you are purposely believing the opposite of what the Bible says, you’re actually STILL basing all of your beliefs on the Bible.
Oh jeez, the suspense is killing me; let’s just hurry up and turn this into a fight about Zionism already:
The absence of evidence for the assertion that Zionism is true avodah zara is evidence of the absence of such a halachah.
Thus, I dun disproved the OP’s argument.
“@joseph-Islam came after Judaism so they can call whatever they copied from us however they want.”
I don’t think there’s any evidence that they existed as a “Jewish” thing before Islam though, so, in this case, it might be something we stole. It’s especially suspicious that they only seem to be a thing in middle eastern areas.
Beni: “To bring my point home. I did not think Rav Shteinman tz”l was the “Leader of Klal Yisroel.” I saw large segments of the Yishivish velt not deferring to him. And I did not get the impression that people viewed him as a halachic authority.”
I didn’t have the guts to say this, but that’s kind of what I thought too. I don’t really know enough about the society in Israel, but it sure seemed like Rav Kanievsky was always the more prominent posek.
“Rav Moshe isn’t always the final word in America either. Roshei Yeshiva and Poskim, such as Rav Hutner, Rav Eli Meyer Bloch of Telz, the Debreciner Rav, the Chelkas Yaakov and others, sided with the Satmar Rebbe over Rav Moshe regarding the obligatory size of a mechitzah in a shul”
Yet we stuck with Reb Moshe’s psak. That whole example just provides more evidence that he was the final word in America, even when other respected rabbis disagreed.
“Rav Moshe was widely accepted as the Torah authority for the yeshivish velt in the United States. But he was not accepted as such an authority by the Chassidishe velt or even the Yeshivish in E”Y.”
Yes, yes… To say what should have gone without saying, this thread is OBVIOUSLY talking about who the next gadol will be for the Litvish velt that followed HaRav Shteinman. I don’t really see how anyone managed to be confused by that.
” I have known quite a few individuals who had they been Jewish would be considered apikorsim and totally off but they managed to fool batei din in to converting them.”
Yeah, this unfortunately smells of one of those cases. I think the batei din are actually probably good in general about keeping those kind of people out, but there are so many weird people in the world that a few a bound to slip through. I know someone who is a vocal meshichist who got through the Queens beis din. I’m not insulting that beis din at all; it’s just a tough situation.
It’s highly unlikely he shared his idea to any beis din that converted him of starting a new Chassidus and declaring himself Rebbe.
“He started his own chassidus, and declared himself a Rebbe? What a joke. ”
I would agree if I thought this was a normal situation. Read the article and look at the kid. I do not know how they let him get through geirus.
Yikes… That was a painful read.
Can you guys make mine “Participant?” I think that would be really cool. I could really see it catching on.
The super long one came later and it’s not making the exact same point as the other 2.
I’m sure it has to do with technically restraints and how they divy up the moderation job, but that’s just my theory.
A few weeks back there were like 5 parallel “let’s fight with Lubavitchers” threads. We’ve all seen parallel Zionist fight threads going on; I’ve never seen the mods merge them. Mods, do you really have the ability to merge threads?
I could tell you, but then I’d have to incarcerate you for 27 years.
Rubashkin.
“Is being a jerk something for which a person can’t do teshuvah?”
Actually, the mikveh only clears the ger on sins between him and Hashem. So, you could make the argument in this context…
CT, my apologies. I misunderstood that sentence.
If you freeze your sifrei Torah without properly sealing them first, botulism Torah is a real concern.
“Neville, next time you want to accuse me of being a hypocrite, don’t do it based on one of the most widely reported economic statistics regarding chateidim”
Lol, then it must be really easy for you to find a source. So easy that you still haven’t done it.
Classic Joseph.
CT: “Greenwich/Stamford”
Lol, that’s the richest area in the entire country. You think we were all born yesterday and are going to eat this up and think you’re a poor little lad with tattered pants worried that Trump is going to take away his money to buy a can of beans?
I admire that you’re worried about how it will affect tzdekeh, but if you earn enough to give 20K per year to tzdekeh, you’re doing alright. If you earn enough that a change in the tax system causes a 20K swing in what you can give, you’re really REALLY doing alright. You express left-wing views on other threads, yet now that you’re observing a case of the low earners getting tax breaks, and the wealthy (you) getting tax increases, it’s all Armageddon.
Lesschumras, wanna cite a source that KJ is almost entirely on public assistance or would you rather just be hypocritical?
RebYid, what did chabadshlucha say that warranted that response? Just because it’s her minhag not to light you think she’s a “slave to men?”
Gaon: Sorry, I should have been more specific. I did not mean that we actually ARE paskening from archeology. And, yes, I noticed that DY’s post was the correct form of rebuttal. What I was trying to say is that arguing against the Chabadniks by ONLY saying “they’ve now found coins etc. with round branches” is falling right into their trap.
Litvish: I don’t disagree with your points. And our experiences are very similar. Weirdly enough, I very recently saw that same Belz article you referenced and the comments (and it’s not a recent article I don’t think). The point is, if a less learned arbitrator saw this thread, they might think, “hm, those Litvaks really are antagonistic towards Chabad, and they really do attribute signifigance to the arch of Titus over the Rambam.”
Also, word of advice, if reading Chabad websites is what puts you in this mood, stop doing it.
Litvishchosid: I am all too familiar with the Chabad/Crown Heights world. I know exactly to what you are referring, but it isn’t doing us any good to be going on about it like this. There is unquestionably a Chabad “custom” to go around telling everyone that their menorahs are wrong for being curved and that they’re based on carvings by Roman idolaters rather than the Rambam, etc. But this thread has largely done the opposite of what you probably wanted.
1) Other archeological evidence was brought up to show it’s not just the arch of Titus with round branches. This just corroborates Chabad’s argument that we’re paskening from archeology instead of Rishonim, which would be wrong.
2) By a simple count, you’ve thrown more punches on this thread than them. So, solely within the context of this thread, it’s hard to claim we’re the victims.Litvish, we’ve had plenty of threads recently (now closed) that show that many others have had similar experiences with Chabad. It really doesn’t do you any good to keep repeating them. Maybe in other cases you can say they play the victim unfairly, but look, you started this thread, not them. Of course they’re going to defend their shittos.
I’m with Uber. I’m interested in where that came from about the first menorah being straight, but the second curved. That’s not just a Chabad thing?
I just went through my old posts and my previous self has caused me to change a bit. I used to sound like a real jerk and am haaretz. My future self 2 years from now will probably look at the today me the same way. The take away is that it’s way too easy to be a rabid dog behind internet anonymity. When I started here I was just as meikel/modern (or more so) and half the people I scream at here today.
That’s enough internet for today.
Lighter skin is a weaker trait. A tiny percentage of gerim would not explain an entire race changing skin tone.