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Baltimore:
What kind of Shabbos is it without being able to drive to your favorite shul? What kind of Shabbos is it without being able to heat up a nice bacon double cheeseburger?
What’s the difference between your usage of oneg Shabbos to be matir all kinds of issurim and the Reform movement’s? They make literally all the same points as you as did the Christians.
I’m not arguing with him on the status of the mikvahs; I don’t care whether or not he uses him.
The point is, he’s talking to people who got p’saks from their rabbis not to use Chabad mikvahs. What would you like us to do, posken like CR User: Milhouse instead of our rabbis?
I can’t speak to whether or not “all shittahs” are against Chabad Mikvahs. But, his assertion that nobody says they’re posul just isn’t true.
A scarier trend that isn’t getting as much attention is people not making it to Slichos altogether. I’ve now seen multiple places not be able to get a minyan together for slichos. My slate is not totally clean in this regard so I don’t want to sound too much like I’m getting up on a soap box and yelling at the masses. It’s just a scary thought that decades from now selichos could be one of those things like tikkun chatzos that people “used to be careful to say.”
I’m sure the musical slichos folks think they’re preventing this from happening, which is nonsense. The reality is, if a person can wake up at 6 AM for musical slichos, they’re just as able to wake up for traditional slichos. If they chose not to, that’s just their own bad middah.
“Honestly? Beer is beer.”
I advise you to check your yichus.
Milhouse:
You’re just straight up wrong. Why are you trying to lecture people on their own shittahs? Are you a Lubavitcher or something?
We know how we hold, and we hold that Chabad mikvahs are not good. Not everything has to be a big controversial insult. Yidden are allowed to have differences in halachic shittah; it’s not a big deal unless you make it one.
Anyway, this thread has wandered quite far from being about Shabbos.
The Chabad Mikvahs with the Mikvah water being on top the rain water is an innovation of the Rebbe Rashab, I believe, not the Baal HaTanya.
Non Chabad Mikvahs can also be heated. The difference is that the heating is integral for the Chabad mikvahs to stay kosher for the hot water to stay sitting utop the colder rainwater.
“Lol labatt is literally water”
Less so than the other beers in that genre like Coors or Bud.I just remembered, Sam Adams had one called Escape Route one year that was my favorite. It was a winter seasonal, but I haven’t been able to find it for years sadly.
“I have to go Corona extra”
For the love of all things holy please tell me you’re joking…For quality stuff, I say Sam Adams Octoberfest. For cheaper beers, Labatt Blue!
“The big difference is that MO have a hashkafa for being MO. They are, generally, Bisheeta MO.”
That’s not a real difference l’maaseh. If they behave in a way which–today–we call “MO,” then I don’t really care what their kavana is, they’re MO. Labels are our friends. They tell us who’s kashrus can be trusted, to which shuls we can go, etc.
“It was in 2015 that the caption of Meron you pasted above is taken from and it was not Breslov chassidim, it just says thousands of Mispallelim are expected there. What actually happened is not reported.”
Are you actually theorizing that nobody actually showed up in Meron and the article is all part of some intricate conspiracy?
The point is, there are legitimate alternatives to going to Uman brought down by Rav Shternhartz himself. You guys even agreed that when Uman was under Soviet control, larger portions of Breslevers had to rely on these alternatives. Don’t you think that Uman becoming a land of drugs and znus might also be a decent reason to look into alternate venues?
It’s pathetic. You guys are going to take every MO trend, and call it as it is when Ashkenazim do it, but make excuses with Sphardim do it. It’s embarrassing how much left-wing PC culture has crept it’s way into the frum world.
There are many frum Sphardim out there who probably would not appreciate you trying to say their mesorah is synonymous with Modern Orthodoxy.
If it quacks like a duck, has a beak like a duck, call it a duck.
This is silly political correctness and nothing else. If someone goes around bearheaded and davens in jeans and a T Shirt, we all know that’s called being MO. You guys just don’t want to say it about Sphardim on account of PC culture.
“Neville ChaimBerlin
That Kibbutz at Rashbi was during the Communist years when no Breslovers could go to Uman. There is no such Kibbutz today as those who made the Rashbi Kibbutz were the first to run back to Uman after the (Berlin!)wall came down in 1989.”Now that just isn’t true. From my understanding of Brelev history, R. Bender’s shittah that Meron is not a suitable substitute for Uman was somewhat of a daas yochid.
Hopefully links within the YWN site are allowed.Also, HaRav Yaakov Meir Shechter didn’t go to Uman for 30 years until apparently last year:
Hagaon HaRav Yaakov Meir Shechter Is Traveling To Uman For Rosh Hashanah
2017 is well after the fall of the Berlin wall.“Your being motzee shem rah on frum yidden “and you know it””
Frum Yidden cover their heads.
“Sephardim are not into much Modern Orthodoxy or Daati Leumi. Those are by and large Ashkenazic contraptions.”
Without getting into whether or not this statement is true at all, it has no relevance. Nobody said all Sephardim are MO/daati leumi; what I said is that the people going around without their heads covered are MO (at best). This is pretty indisputable and I don’t know why we’re still talking about it. The only people trying to say that real frum yidden go around with bare heads are those with an extreme left-wing agenda.
“Many, many sfardim in Israel still only wear a yarmulke when davening or making brachos.”
That has nothing to do with being Sphardi and everything to do with being MO/dati leumi and you know it.
mentsch: The exact same event IS set up in Israel by the kever of Shimon bar Yochai by many [real] Breslev Chasidim, and it does not descend into the same madness. The part of Breslev that insists on Uman also seems to also be the part that attracts tens of thousands of hippies.
The “idea” of going to kevrei tzadikkim at this time of the year (Erev Rosh HaShanah at least) is brought down in the Rema, so I would not recommend calling it kefira.
The disaster of Uman is not just because of people going to a Rabbi’s grave. That happened for centuries with no problems. The disaster is because of a group using hippie, feel-good yiddishkeit as their selling point with no concern for the consequences.
akuperma, that’s not 100% true. The custom for goyim was to cover their heads while outside and take the hats off indoors. That trend goes back at least as was as the Taz who mentions it in a Chukas HaGoyim argument in favor of head-coverings. I’ll try to find the source.
What you’re claiming is completely untrue and I have no idea what you’re seeking to gain with this thread.
I have National Geographic magazines from the 1940’s that talk about the Jewish community of Morocco and mentions that they wore Yarmulkes. I don’t know of any proofs you could bring from poskim to corroborate what you’re saying.
What’s there to talk about?
Litvaks marry at an age gap. That means, assuming a growing population, there will be a surplus of the younger gender. No need for a survey; it’s very easily mathematically provable.If Chassidim don’t do it, they won’t have the same surplus.
Takes2:
I don’t get the mushul. You shouldn’t use Sirloin to describe meat that isn’t Sirloin. Kosher places usually say “mock-whatever.”mentsch:
We’re on the same page. Although, I don’t know why you assume 90% of the people don’t see the bad stuff. Any time you see photos of Uman like we will here in a few weeks, the real Chasidim clearly only make up a tiny fraction of the people there.For a pretty divisive issue, this thread has stayed quite calm. Maybe it’s because it’s Elul.
I think think all the posts here give a pretty accurate representation. Let me just say one thing: when in any other scenario have you seen the following conversation take place:
“Hey, what do you think of this shul for the Chagim?”
“Oh, that shul? It’s not bad. There’ll be a few people talking during davening, and of course a few people shooting up heroin here and there, but other than that it’s really uplifting davening.”“Rather it is about even having the education of a regular Litvish Yeshiva, so that they are not functionally illiterate in English and they are able to speak clearly (even with an accent).”
If I were confident that that were all the debate was about, I would agree. Like I said before, they need to speak English. Nobody has any business being an American citizen if they speak no English and have no plans on learning it.
“why does everyone get all bent out of shape when a meshichist pops up and shares the party line in the cr?”
As Toi basically said, it’s not that they’re coming here and saying “I’m a Meshichist, here’s why…”
Certain posters are basically insulting the intelligence of all non-Lubavitchers by trying to convince to that we’re misinterpreting every Meshichist statement they make. The cat’s out of the bag and they need to get over it. I know I’m going to catch flack for this, but I’m going to say it anyway: comfortably frum people don’t like being spoken to like they’re kiruv-cases. Chabadniks need to learn how to talk to other frum people. Whenever we give advice in the CR on how we would prefer to be spoken to, it goes completely ignored.How do these threads keep happening? Chabad can’t blame us for starting this one.
CS: Nobody is misunderstanding anyone. We all know that when Lubavitchers make vague references to Moshiach, they’re talking about the Rebbe and making hints that their fellow Meshichists will pick up on. You assume these references go over our heads; you’re wrong. It’s a mistake to assume all non-Lubavitchers are as unaware as the people you deal with in kiruv.
I can only imagine, at this point, that the reason you keep making these posts is to either convince a few less-learned passerby’s, or to purposefully elicit a disproportionately angry response from certain anti-Chabad posters in order to appear as the more moderate side. As I hope you can understand, neither of those motivations is going to be particularly welcomed here. This is a forum for frum people, not people who need or want Chabad kiruv.
mentsch, I don’t think people were actually claiming the Chassidim should have gone to Public School chas v’shalom. Usually the people in the CR being critical of frum schools are those who advocate for more MO Day School systems.
It’s just an age-old CR debate. One side thinks it’s worth taking on a little bit more risk of kids going off the derech in order to pursue a better education for them. The other side disagrees.
What’s the big deal about the Regents? You New Yorkers are so weird.
But, in all honesty, one area where I might really disagree with Joseph here as about English.
If somebody lives in America, they need to learn the language. Hispanic immigrants, Asian immigrants, Chassidim, I don’t care. They need to learn to speak English if they want to live in this country.
I’ll wait with anticipation for one of our posters like CTLaw or CharlieHall to come in and say that illegals should be granted amnesty even if they don’t speak English, but for Chassidim not to speak English it’s a huge problem and chillul Hashem.
Avi, so you’re proudly not Ashkenaz, but you would call someone a rashah if he refused to eat Ashkenaz meat because he only eats Beit Yosef?
I don’t know why I’m dignifying your ramblings with a response. Just wanted to point out that inconsistency.
Would you guys call it a “problem” that the other 49 states might not be meeting Regents requirements because NY is the only state that has it?
“No “proof” has been given. People are giving their own boich sevaras.
How many people do you know who really gain more in ruchniyus by going away to some place with no minyan?
Hint: not too many.”
That’s not a proof either…
“I thought it was one username per poster.”
What in the world gave you that idea?
The CR has several times danced around discussion about the particular Spanish shul in NYC to which I presume you are referring.
Any place that tries to change their minhagim “back to a purer form” of the mesora as opposed to following the contemporary poskim within their circle is bound to become problematic.
Suggestions would include, actually finding a contemporary Sphardi posek to go by, like Rav Ovadiah Yosef, instead of acting like they’re all not truly Spanish enough. If you are referring to the shul to which I think you’re referring, then there probably isn’t a lot of hope. I think they’ve been a stronghold of the Open Orthodoxy/Conservadoxy for as long as anyone can remember.
CT: It’s up to the upkeepers of the minyan’s page to keep it up-to-date, not the site itself. If your shul changed times for minyanim and godaven doesn’t reflect it, that’s not their fault.
As for old shuls that closed still being on there (which I know is quite unfortunately common in Connecticut), that is an issue with which they need to deal.
You know of a thing called godaven?
#The_REAL_Peleg
Don’t get sucked in. I think this is just a response to the Satmar kever thread. Either that or just very coincidental timing.
The same reason non Lubavitchers go to the Lubavitcher Rebbe’s grave: he has, at least indirectly, had a lot of positive influence on a lot of people.
I say this and I am for sure not a Satmar or a Lubavitcher.
Whew, OK good. It looks like people have finally started fighting. I was worried this thread about achdus would actually stay cordial…
It’s true in all of NYC. Nobody warned me; it’s actually kind of frightening to think of what we would have to do if we had a halachic emergency.
For anyone planning to move to NYC, be warned… Don’t listen to Joseph. What the OP is saying is 100% true.
That isn’t at all what happened on the thread to which you refer. If I say McDonalds workers get paid enough, it doesn’t mean a fry cook abused me as a child; it means I think they get paid enough. You’re flying to overly defensive conclusions, most likely because the issue is personal to you.
This thread would have been more timely had it been posted in the wake of those Chabad war threads or some such similar situation.
By the way, what I’ve been focusing on is the hours worked by secular-studies teachers and public school teachers. Yeshiva Rebbeim work different hours.
The facts are that teachers are in the class room much less than office workers are in the office.
You teacher lobbyists are relying on 2 assumptions that you’re presenting as facts: 1) that teachers put in so many hours outside the classroom that it adds up to over 40. 2) that office workers DON’T put in any hours over 40.
I don’t believe in either of these.
And, by the way, my comment wasn’t meant to demean teachers. I’m not the one saying they’re doing a poor job. I think they do fine; I just also think they’re compensated fairly based on how many hours they work.
Teachers work less than half of what normal 9-5’ers work. There’s no reason to believe throwing more money at them would make education better.
Yeah, well, what can you do? We stay, even with the bias, because this is the only frum news site that has a coffee room.
Avi: Not true. There are multiple examples of real Hebrew words that are used as swears today. Obviously, we can’t give any examples here.
Zionist pronunciation does not align with any pre-existing mesora. The fact that you single out Ashkenazi pronunciation for rebuke rather than Teimani or authentic Sphardi (which also aren’t the same as Israeli) is just indicative of the fact that the early Zionists were self-hating Ashkenazim who instilled that school of thought in their movement for generations.
“That the Lubavitcher Rebbe will be Moshiach is only according to Hillel whose view is that techiyas hamesim will coincide with the comming of the Moshiach”
No, it’s only according to Chabad Meshichist’s interpretation of that daf.
The “no dirty words” reason sounds like something they would teach to 8-year-old’s.
Oh, you’re talking strictly about modern, Israeli Hebrew.
So, the argument is basically that every language ever used by the Jews gains a status of Lashon haKodesh with the exception of Hebrew?