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This is like bizarro land. I usually defend Joseph against trolling accusations. I finally join the bandwagon on this thread and now all his old enemies are praising him.
The edit was so tiny I can’t even figure out what it was. Did you fix a spelling mistake or something? 😉
That’s what Joseph said too. Threads have to die eventually though. It should be when their original discussion has been exhausted.
While we’re using this thread for completely off topic subjects, I just had the realization that MD means Maryland. For years I’ve thought it meant you were studying to become a doctor. If you were going to med school in Maryland, that would be a delicious pun.
I can’t believe how far you guys have taken this. This has to be Joseph’s greatest CR success story (at least since he’s become a 1-account man). He’s managed to get like 60% of this thread to be about women going outside when it was supposed to be about Chabad hats lol.
Philosopher: I think the mods have been pretty good on this thread actually. I’m not sure what exact words you were trying to get through, but they might have just broken written forum rules even if they were for a good cause.
646: Philosopher has the right idea. Only a fool thinks he can change someones opinion once it’s made up. The only productive thing that could come out of this thread would be to hurt the feelings and ruin the day of an anti-semite.
Tiny edit – sorry
apush: I knew my conspiracy theory was missing something: Joseph is a FEMALE Lubavitcher!
“So your saying that what happened is that Jews were just emigrating with no intention of taking control of the land, the Arabs attacked them for this, and then they decided to declare a state after fighting back?”
Yes, because that’s exactly what happened. Liberal revisionist historians claim otherwise and say we “forcefully invaded” the land. The intentions of the immigrants are irrelevant; the point is, the Arabs are the ones that started the aggression.
Arabs did not like the Jews prior to Zionism. That’s just a flat out myth. Antisemitism is mandated by the Quran; we’ve literally always had problems with them.
It is a problem that happened. The Palestinians were attacking Jewish immigrants before the state existed as we’ve pointed out several times.
At that point, their worst crime was illegal immigration. It’s funny how you Neo Nazi liberals probably love illegal immigrants in the US, but when the Jews illegally immigrated to Israel, you say they deserve to be murdered for it.
The reason you don’t like Winnie’s answer is because you’re an atheist, as was seen on the other thread. This is a forum for religious Jews; please find your way to the exit.
” he was a potential murderer and regardless if the charges bought forth didn’t say he was racist, the facts prove otherwise.”
Do you realize how absurd this is? You honestly believe judges just set bail at whatever they want by reading media articles about the case? It has to be based on the charges made; I can’t believe you’re having to learn this here.
The problem is part of a larger issue of intentional under-prosecuting in NYC. This is a well known issue, not a fairy tale. De Blasio’s approach to boasting lower crime rates is to not enforce the law and let criminals roam the streets. That’s what this case was about, and that’s what it should have stayed about.
646: To your specific points:
The point that Israel invaded Palestine: we did respond. If you chose to ignore it, it’s not our problem.
The point that most Palestinians aren’t bad: we did respond to this also, you ignored it.
The point that Jews are evil for “occupying” Palestine: this is a Jewish site, please kindly find your way to the exit.
The point that the Palestinians should be able to build an army to kill Jews more efficiently: this is a Jewish site, please kindly find your way to the exit.
The point that it’s immoral for Jews to defend ourselves: this is a Jewish site, please kindly find your way to the exit.There might just not be a lot of interesting news right now. Maybe they could look into better ways to fill the lulls. More Op-Ed’s, halachic pieces, financial news, etc.
From the other thread regarding 646’s aprikorses:
“Randomex: 000646. He’s more or less respectful about it so they let him stay. I think. I’m not a mod.”Maybe it’s about time they stopped letting him stay. Explicitly siding with terrorists could fall under the realm of not being “more or less respectful about it.”
CT: I’m glad someone who actually understands the system got involved, but it won’t do any good.
If you look at the articles and at moderation patterns, it’s clear that YWN has some agenda against Judge Freier for some reason. You never see these kind of comments let through regarding any other frum community member. We come here for biased reporting, and sometimes the bias is on our side, sometimes it’s not. But, in this case, it seems a little over the line to go so strongly against a non-anonymous individual rather than an institution or school of thought.
I’m explicitly taking advantage of moderation bias on another thread currently, so it seems hypocritical to criticize it here, but I admit that it’s more personal than principled in this case. I’ve considered leaving YWN over this particular issue, but I’ll always just end up coming back in all likelihood. None of the competitors have forums…
“Do you disagree that the people who live in a land should have the right to determine who governs it?”
The way they tried to determine it was by committing mass murders against innocent Jews at universities and hospitals. So, you admit without hesitation that terrorism is their “right,” in your opinion? So, basically you fully back their holy jihad. You still expect us to believe you are Jewish?
Sorry you weren’t born in the right generation to support Adolf. You and him would have been two peas in a pod.
646: Is it also the Zionists’ fault when you Muslims beat your wives? Is it the Zionists’ fault Muslim refugees assault women in Europe? Is ISIS the Zionists’ fault?
Face it, Islam is the problem. Zionism is an internal problem within Judaism that we can and do argue here. You, my friend, are sad and confused if you thought Chareidi anti-Zionism was the same thing as the kind of terrorist sympathizing you seem to be into.
YWN is not such a hardline frum organization. Their bias is centrist-Orthodox at best. This headline really doesn’t surprise me at all.
Essentially what I’m hearing is that people’s expectation was that she would be unabashedly biased towards whatever emotionalist cause the Jewish community had on its agenda at a given time. When she actually did her job as a normal judge, it disappointed those people.
We would all love to see this criminal suffer. A lot of us wouldn’t mind seeing him dead either, but what kind of system would it be if judges had to take that kind of sentiment into even the most minor decisions like setting bail?
As I said, the Jews immigrated there and defended themselves which ultimately led to establishing a state. That state later on GAVE the West Bank and Gaza to the terrorists as a failed peace attempt.
You’re missing A LOT here. The territories to which you keep referring were actually graciously given to the Arabs in failed land-for-peace deals. They were part of Israel proper along with the entire Sinai Peninsula. I don’t think you’re actually so stupid that you aren’t aware of these facts. I think you’re just choosing to only believe in what suits your antisemitic opinions. But, I could be wrong. Maybe you really are just that stupid.
Also, 646, I know I’m not going to change your rabidly Antisemitic opinions. My goals here are to:
Make you feel unwelcome and hopefully leave the CR for good, or cross a line and get blocked.
Make you feel less liked and worse about yourself as any anti Semite deserves.
Make you realize that you have no allies: if you’re Jewish, the Arabs hate you, and thanks to your opinions, so do your own people.Sometimes these things have to happen for the greater good. No matter how tough you want to act behind your screen, the Achilles heel of all of you liberals is that you’re extremely sensitive and easily offended by anyone who doesn’t tell you how perfect and genius you are.
646: You actually aren’t arguing facts as you keep asserting.
Israel did not invade and forcefully take over the land like you keep saying. Jews immigrated there and were attacked by the Arabs. They formed armies (it wasn’t one unified IDF at first) to save themselves. I’m sorry they didn’t allow themselves to all be killed like you would have loved.You also keep saying over and over that they aren’t bad people and are just upset about being occupied. More than one of us have referenced surveys now that the average Palestinian supports murdering/abusing Jews. Why don’t you just say what you believe: that those polls are all part of a big Jewish Zionist conspiracy and aren’t true. Just admit that you agree with literally all of the shittas of the Neo Nazis.
She can’t set the bail based on something he isn’t charged with. You guys are responding to this with emotionalism.
From the beginning it was clear that YWN had no understanding of the judicial process and just wanted to bully her with their usual laissez faire approach to moderation on any article relating to her. You expect her to weigh in and call it a vicious hate-crime before the trial has started? Do you really not realize that judges can’t do stuff like that?
They aren’t innocent people. They are all part of a massive terrorist enterprise and there is nothing immoral about defense by force. It doesn’t matter if the number of enemy combatants is 4 million or 100 million, Israel has the right to take out anyone coming at them. So, I don’t see why you think repeating that number over and over is going to help your case.
P.S. I’m not a religious Zionist. As you would know if you hadn’t just created an account here for your university newspaper piece, I generally fall on the anti-Zionist, chareidi side of the fence religiously. I argue with Avi all the time on the CR. This might be hard for you to grasp as a goy, but those of us with that shittah aren’t opposed to the medina because we love Hamas. We still hate anyone who wants to kill the Jewish people as any real Jew should.
War is never pretty. Do you think WWII would have ended without the allies bombing the daylights out of Berlin? And, by the way, the civilian casualties there were probably ACTUALLY innocent, unlike your beloved Muslims.
My mistake, I found the source of the poll I referred to in my last post in the number is actually 87%, not over 90.
Nonetheless, if 87% of them support murdering Jews, why would you want to reward them?
Also, I should point out, the Arab-Israeli conflict is probably the only conflict in history where self-defense is labeled as “immoral.” You guys are actually explicitly saying that Israel should not be able to fight back against the terrorists and that they only thing they should be able to do is give them a state so that they can build a huge Nazi-style army.
” I don’t believe even 75% of Palestinians are all into terrorism”
You’re right, 75 is not correct. According to polls over 90% of them support the terrorism. The moderate ones went to Jordan. And, by the way, I’m using the word “moderate” lightly here. They’re still mostly probably Antisemites.
You terrorist-lovers need to get 1 thing straight: people generally tolerate varying shittos here (even though we argue) from the religious-right, 3-oath types who are b’shittah against the medina to the Avi K types who assign religious significance to it. But, if you’re going to come in with full-fledged political support for those who want to exterminate the Jews simply for left-wing Antisemitic reasons, you should face nothing but contempt here. I am proud to make you feel unwelcome.
Ugh, you guys are fools. I’m sorry, but you can’t say I didn’t warn you.
You can’t do stuff like admit that people are generally less tznius than 500 years ago in a discussion like this even if it’s true. Why? Because this whole thing got started from a totally innocent, non-controversial comment by CS about women being well put together (in contrast to the men) while ALSO keeping fully tznius (she specified the latter part several times).
This was always about looking respectable vs. disheveled, and you let him make it about tznius. Now, you guys took the bait and your latest comments make it look like your making a mockery of hilchos tznius, which we all know isn’t your intention. Joseph wins the day as far as I’m concerned. You others should have listened when I said not to respond.
Can we go back to talking about hats or something? This was one of the only good threads still active on the CR. I’m starting to wonder it Joseph purposely derailed it to protect Chabad’s image.
I could use that in a “Joseph is a Lubavitcher” conspiracy theory thread. I can’t remember if I tried to make that already and it got blocked, or if I decided that it wasn’t worth hours of painstaking research just for a thread that would probably be blocked. Does that sound like the kind of thing you’d let through, mods?
646: They already tried a 2 state solution. Jordan is a Palestinian state. The ones left in Israel are just the crazies that nobody wants. You can’t just keep giving the Arabs more Islamic states. Why would that “solve” anything anyway?
The solution is to let Israel respond properly and harshly to their terrorism. If they had been allowed to do that all these years, your 4 million Palestinian problem might only be a 2 million problem. And, after a few more provocations, a 1 million problem. Eventually, a 0 person problem. Catching my drift?
And, go ahead, if you’re some goyish college liberal trolling here to get quotes on “how the evil Jews think,” go ahead and use my post. It doesn’t matter because your dreamy terrorist utopia is never going to happen.
It becomes a financial burden on the cell phone providers to keep around a product that almost nobody wants. Because of this, they have to charge more than normal for flip phones. So, the cheapness advantage of flip phones is really deteriorating.
You used to be able to get them for free with your wireless plan. Now, they charge you hundreds for a flip phone and try to give you all kinds of deals to get a smart phone. The selections used to be bigger for flip phones in stores also. Now, it’s usually just 1 model per store, and whatever it is, it’s probably not as good as the flip phone you had back in the day.
Guys, just stop replying to it. You don’t even realize how many threads he’s ruined with these random Rambams that nobody holds by.
We’re kind of halachically required to say converting is worse so I’m not really sure how much discussion this could possibly generate.
5ish: “Who says that a shirt needs to be tucked in????”
Who says you have to wear a white button-down? Who says you have to wear slacks and a jacket?
Nobody is mandating these things. The whole point is to look respectable. If one isn’t concerned with looking respectable at all times, they could wear shorts and a T shirt or whatever they want, as some people indeed do. Keeping to a frum dress code and then wearing it in such a way that doesn’t look respectable is just kind of ironically off point. It’s kind of like when people who want to always daven with a hat over their yarmulke put on a baseball cap when nothing else is around.
Am I saying that wearing an untucked button-down under a jacket (often just hanging off the shoulders) is barely any better than wearing shorts and a T-shirt? Yes, I am saying that at this point. I understand the look you guys are going for like I’ve stated earlier in this thread, but it just doesn’t look at all presentable. I guess I just lost my status as Chabad’s public defender.
Lol. That’s me. Neville ChaimBerlin, oheiv Lubavitch par excellence.
JNN, give it a break. What are you, a Muslim or something?
Nowhere were there specific criticisms of the current Israeli government. They were just broad statements about how Israel is “evil,” using that exact word. The language of Antisemitism really hasn’t advanced since the dawn of mankind. Wake up! These are today’s Nazis.
Joseph, please don’t derail this thread with some “women are required to look ugly at all times and if they don’t they should die” shtick. People might have still had stuff worth saying before this thread goes quiet.
Yeah, I actually have to agree with Shlucah’s point. When girls are wearing miniskirts or pants and calling themselves Orthodox, we never claim that it proves Litvaks are un-tznius. When girls do it who follow Chabad hanhagas, people use it as a proof against Chabad.
It’s not fair that when Ashkenazim have one foot off the derech, we relabel them as MO so that they don’t set a bad example as Litvaks. When Lubavitchers do the same, we keep calling them full-blown Lubavitchers.
Yes, the gartel does go on the outside of the cover of a posul sefer torah as I’m sure people have witnessed in shul. What’s your point in making that statement here?
I would just like to take this opportunity to point out to the mods and everyone that I am NOT the one who turned this thread into a Chabad war.
I may have said some bad things early on that got edited out, but subsequently I’ve been really nice to Chabad. Just figured I’d throw that out there. Anyway, carry on.
Shmuel: My problem with your tie answer is that it isn’t limited to bochurim. I know Lubavitch baalhabusim who don’t wear ties even to their jobs where most other employees probably do. They say the reason is religious. When I asked one of the tie-wearing Lubavitchers why he wore a tie and others refused to, he said, “we’re old school Lubavitch.”
Is there some cut-off point at which tie-wearers were grandfathered in?
It’s definitely a difference between Israeli/French Lubavitchers and American ones. The Israeli’s seem to go more extreme for the look I was describing. I think I can safely say I’ve never seen an Israeli Lubavitcher with their shirt tucked in (at least when they’re visiting America; I don’t see them in their natural habitat).
The tie thing I don’t get, and shluchim always seem to avoid the subject. Lubavitchers over the age of ~60 who were “old school” Lubavitchers and probably speak Yiddish all wear ties as glued to their necks as their hats are to their heads. Yet, the younger Lubavichers will flat out say it’s against their minhag to wear a tie. It doesn’t make any sense to me.
Meno: think of it like how in Litvish Yeshivos the bochurim don’t usually wear ties on weekdays, but their rebbeim do. The Rosh Yeshiva wears a longer coat at most places. We all have concepts of bochurim dressing less formally than their superiors for gaavah kind of reasons.
To get the thread back on track, if I may…
The “Chabad Look” to which I was referring I believe might actually be b’shittah. Chassidim usually have more established dress-codes than the rest of us. A big part of Chabad’s philosophy is that the Baal Shem Tov was extending frumkeit to the less financially fortunate; the assertion being that the Yeshivish velt had become too reserved for the rich. I think that shittah continues to influence their hanhagos today in that they might take pride in worrying less about looking primp and proper than their Litvish counterparts.
While Litvaks are very delicate about our hats and will replace them if they go limp, the Lubavitcher Rebbe wore a more tattered-looking hat that any of his chassidim could afford. The Rebbe didn’t dress royally like other chassidishe rebbeim. And, Chabadniks may keep strictly to a button-down + black jacket dress code, but they aren’t always tucked in and worried about their hats looking perfect. I think it’s all part of finding a balance between showing that a yid dresses respectfully, while also showing that yiddishkeit is not reserved for the posh.
Any Lubavitchers here want to back me up, or am I missing the mark?
“If that’s not a minhag I don’t know what is.”
OK, you don’t know what a minhag is.
The point with the turbans is that formal wear always defies climate. If you really didn’t want to sweat, you would wear shorts and short sleeves. Whether you’re wearing Arabic formal attire, European, or Chinese, you’ll probably be warm. That’s just how the world works.
These discussions used to pop up a lot more in the CR. Usually just comes down to someone not entirely comfortable in their own shoes who gets insecure around people who are more frum, so they pick on superficial things like attire as a coping mechanism.
Yechiell: Nobody ever said it’s assur to not wear a black hat. Your understanding of changing minhag is very poor. Dress trends of a certain time period don’t constitute an official minhag. There’s also no written mesora I know of that Jews wore turbans 2000 years ago. People just like to assume they did to compare us to Arabs.
Why would anyone think a turban is better suited for heat than a fedora? Do you think there’s an AC unit hidden in there? At least the fedora has a brim for the sun.
lower: True, but we can still have our opinions.
Dayeinu: I hate to even dignify your latest arguments with a response, but just in the interest of getting you to stop repeating yourself:
You can’t just claim that every posek who doesn’t jive with you shittah didn’t properly learn the sugya. That’s the height of arrogance and absurdity. You’re actually outright claiming to be smarter that Rav Eliyashiv on this topic. At least the other commentators were implicit about it. Nobody here has said “the rabbis who are matir the techeles didn’t really learn the sugya and don’t know what they’re talking about.” Only you have sunk to that low, which is a new low for the CR.They’re clearing modding out even the most tame of comments that agree with the OP. Afraid of losing donors or something?