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“Not sure i tried.”
I didn’t think you were. I didn’t mean that last post as a put down either. I was more confused as to why you viewed that other post as an attack when you seem to agree with what it said.It’s not a chiddush. It’s brought down in the shulchan aruch, as other posters have mentioned.
This thread just further proves that some people will always say whatever is the opposite of what Joseph says. Joseph, you should start a thread about the importance of keeping kosher to see what happens.
The mashal I heard, which might not work for those unfamiliar with the business world, is the following:
When a supervisor/manager has employees under him or her doing the grunt work, the manager receives some form of credit for the team’s accomplishments (even though they were done by the subordinates) and some form of backlash for when a team member makes mistakes (even though it wasn’t the manager’s own mistake).If you make a mistake, it’s nobody’s fault but your’s, yet it still reflects on your manager. You see the difference between fault and responsibility?
By the way, I don’t say this in an attempt to start an argument, but the shittah Nechomah heard that a woman should not encourage her husband to make minyan/learn is absolutely not standard in any community I’ve ever heard of. While the OP is representing the rabbi’s talk in somewhat of a controversial way, he is much more in line with the standard approach to marriage. I really can’t imagine a kallah teacher telling a girl “your husband’s observance is none of your business,” or vice versa.
Would you make generalizations about any ethnic group you see doing something you don’t find right, or do you only discriminate against sub-groups of Jews who are more frum than you and thereby make you feel uncomfortable and inadequate?
It wasn’t an attack and nothing in your response refutes anything I said.
Ubi:
With all due respect, you’re wasting your time. You can’t bring proofs to an argument with anti-vaxxers. Just do your part to treat them feel like third class citizens, make their shittos socially not acceptable so that they never find shidduchim, and they’ll be gone within the next 50 years. Logic did not create them, and therefore logic cannot destroy them.“this is what all the pro-vaccine religion”
Tip: You can just call it Judaism. It’s quicker that way.“really you compare alumunim foil to vaccines????”
Do you not realize that I was quoting you with that post? If so, then you are an extremely effective troll, and you have my utmost respect. If this is the case, I know you can’t admit to it, but from one angry internet loser (me) to another, just know that it’s a job well done.“Recently, I had a Rav talk to me about how a wife is responsible for her husband’s mitzvah observance.”
I think he meant more mitzvas aseh. I don’t know to which talk you refer, but I presume the point was that the wife gets credit for soliciting her husbands mitzvos such as allowing him to learn in yeshiva, reminding him to daven, etc. That speech is quite common and is used for chizuk for women who might be brought down by the fact that the Torah gives more mitzvos to men. I’ve never heard it having anything to do with issurim; are you sure you didn’t just assume that?As for the title question, obviously the answer is yes as well as vice versa. People can bring each other down. I don’t believe that was supposed to be the take-away of the talk you heard though.
“so maybe you can answer me why the governemnt is saying that alumunim is safe becuase its in mother milk when its 2 DIFFERENT Types of aluminum.”
Wait, do you actually avoid using aluminum foil because you think it’s dangerous? This is actual kind of entertaining. Could you just provide us with a list of things you don’t think are secretly poisonous and being covered up by a giant conspiracy? It seems like that would be easier.
Even if it were linked to autism, at least there are high-functioning autistic people. Anti-Vaxxerism seems to be a much greater and more crippling form of mental retardation than autism.
There will never be 100% vaccination, and nobody claims there ever will be. There are people who are actually unable to receive the vaccines for real, medical reasons. And, by the way, those are the people we actually care about who you anti-vaxxers are putting at risk, real, functioning human beings. If it was only anti-vaxxers putting themselves at risk, I would be fine just viewing measles as Hashem’s way of cleaning up the gene pool.
“Back in the 1950s the C movement did present a threat to the O movement. But, now, the C movement is really in death throes.”
It’s still probably upwards of 5 times the size of the Orthodoxy in America. You just don’t live in that world now and don’t realize it. Also, 90% of them only go to shul 3 times a year, so you wouldn’t realize it. This idea you apologists keep peddling that the poskim only had a problem with it because it “posed a threat” is completely insulting and shows that you probably don’t actually care about what rabbonim say because you’ll just inject your own “ulterior motive” theories when you don’t like their psaks.
This thread has taught me one thing that will make me sound 100% like Joseph, but it’s true: [Some] BT’s will steadfastly refuse to accept how the halachah views Conservative/Reform Jews probably on account of sentimentality for their families. It’s understandable, but I still don’t think it should be publicized.
“The only argument against “Artscroll” is that translation is a de facto commentary”
That is not the “only” argument. Don’t be ridiculous.It’s not opinion. It’s the simple definition of the word kefira. They do not believe that Hashem gave the Torah. Period. That’s all that needs to be said.
They label themselves, not us. And, by the way, you absolutely are in the business of trashing yidden. 99% of your posts are trashing the Orthodoxy, and now you’ve added defending kefira to balance it out a bit.
It’s not about censoring dissenting views. All I’m asking the mods to consider is the consequences of allowing this forum to be infiltrated by the Conservative/Reform. Not unlike an infiltration by Jews for Jesus, it would cause a lot of us to no longer feel comfortable using these forums. You can’t expect us to talk with a kiruv filter 100% of the time. We come here to avoid having to do that.
“Neville, do you think it’s better for them to be stupid and uneducated?”
I think it’s better not to put at risk the children who will actually stand to benefit from education on account of their functioning brains.“afraid of providing that info because of all the yentas that are unfortunately prevalant”
So, they’d rather the yentas go around telling people they’re anti-vaxxers? Sorry, don’t buy it. If it’s true, then it shows that anti-vaxxers are too socially accepted, which is exactly why they need to be publicly shamed.“Obviously, some prefer to paint them all as kofrim so thats your option but many are true shomrei torah umitzvos.”
That’s just flat out false. None of them are shomer Torah umitzvos, by definition. I hate to cry to mommy and daddy, but what ever happened to the “we don’t post kefira” policy on the CR?
“These “traditional” minyanim at some conservative shuls will not satisfy the standards of even the most progressive MO shuls”
You aren’t saying anything wrong, but it’s overall very discomforting how much you seem to be avoiding saying they’re doing anything halachically wrong and instead saying stuff like “satisfy the standards,” etc. Maybe I’m just being overly cynical; it might just be me. Are you just being choshesh for people’s feelings by wording it that way?
By the way, I’m aware of some split within the Conservative world, but it mainly revolves around the topics of female rabbis and toeiva marriages. Separate seating I have never heard of. That’s always been a defining characteristic of their “movement” as you can tell from that recent autistic daughter thread.
“The state can’t force them to vaccinate if they claim they are not doing it for religious purposes.”
You yourself said they ended the religious exemption. Religion is not a magic wand that paturs someone from whatever American laws they want, and if people try to use it that way the state will only grow to resent religion more and more.Rebyid:
Yeah, but the apple doesn’t fall far from the moron tree.Abba:
That’s for sure not what he’s saying, and that would be obviously assur.I’m going to be straight, unless someone can provide a clear, verifiable example, I do not believe that there are any Conservative shuls in America today that don’t count women and do have a mechitzah. Maybe, just maybe, that was true like 50 years ago.
Gadol, even if these mythical traditional minyanim exist, they are still 100% koifers. They don’t believe that Hashem revealed the Torah to Moshe Rabbeinu, they still drive on Shabbos, they censor tefillos to exclude mention of the beis hamikdash and openly state that they don’t want it to return, they allow Kohanim to marry gerim, etc. This idea that Conservative kefira is a new thing and that they were still kosher at the initial split is a total fabrication. They are and always have been “Reform, but with Hebrew.”
Tzipora was not black.
Who cares? If they’re dumb enough to be anti-vaxxers they’ll never amount to anything anyway.
“So the great world renowned Posek Rational differs with the Igros Moshe. So kind of you to share your learned teshuva with us, chock full of maareh mekomos and raiyos.”
Actually, the renowned Rational tried to change his stance completely and hoped nobody would notice. He’s now talking about Orthodox communities taking over abandoned Conservative shuls and converting them to Orthodox shuls. Nobody says Conservative shuls have a din of beis avoda zara. His original argument was that Orthodox Jews can daven in active Conservative shuls alongside their kefiradik brethren.
I thought liberals hated the police.
A person of color is one who may not be criticized or reprimanded in any way, shape, or form no matter what egregious acts they commit.
I think the OP was looking for a list of issurim (eg. kol isha, bracha l’vatalla, etc.) rather than inquiring whether or not it’s assur. The thread has taken a weird turn that’s probably a nightmare for the mods since we aren’t supposed to post kefira, but also don’t want to isolate not-yet-frum yidden.
You wouldn’t go up to a Conservative Jew and scream koifer like we do to each other on the CR all the time. There’s a reason not to bash them like they bash us. I don’t see where this thread goes that’s positive at this point.
rational:
I really hope you’re trolling. The Conservative movement is much more Reform, and anti-Torah today than it was back then. Unless you’re claiming that it’s so radically different than Orthodoxy today that nobody will be tempted to join? Which, by the way, would still be an insanely stupid argument.Motachah: DY was obviously joking.
ZD:
The OP clearly wasn’t about using a Conservative building for a wedding venue. That’s another discussion. It seemed like he was talking about actively participating in Conservative services, and which issurim are involved.I’m out of the loop, who’s the 4th anti-American woman? I only know AOC, Omer, and Talib.
“So when a Ben David arises to be king and he says to you lets go fight the wars of Hashem and build the Beis Hamikdash you will tell him, “listen buddy, I won’t believe you are Moshiach until after you fulfill all of the requirements,””
So, when a Ben David who isn’t the Rebbe (because it won’t be) arises to be king and he says to you lets go fight the wars of Hashem and build the Beis Hamikdash you will tell him, “listen buddy, we already have a moshiach. Go away.”
“Neville – are you also AOC’s speech writer?”
Why do you think that? Just because I’m black? Racist.Have you seen the viral videos online of Siri or Alexa or whatever being exposed as an extreme leftist? This particular answer should not be at all surprising.
Person:
OOT seems nicer than NYC.
Everyone:
I respect your opinion.
Joseph:
I like NYC better. It has more religious resources.
Everyone:
You dumb, mean troll! Why are you alive?!
“The issue here is a narrow one as to whether these continual rants by the religious anti-Zionists are inadvertently feeding the growth of anti-Semitism cloaked in the guise of political anti-Zionism.”
No. Because, we still hate the Arabs more, and you don’t have to talk to us long to figure that out.“First, nobody proposes boycotting “E”Y”; they propose boycott the Zionist State of Israel.”
Really? You think AOC and Ilan Omer would be willing to buy products with a badatz hechsher? Jeez, I had them all wrong. I thought they were just anti-semites.“On a serious note, I find it both humorous and a bit bizarre that anyone, including rabbonim from across the spectrum, purport to “know” who is moishiach or even speculate on his identity.”
Across the spectrum? Nobody does this except for Lubavitchers. The example to which you were replying was pure hearsay, as you yourself pointed out. Why do you think there would be such a controversy around Chabad if this were a normal behavior?
That best part of all of this, aside from giving liberals well deserved smack-downs, is that it’s exactly these kind of posts that got Trump elected the first time.
Don’t change, Democrats. Keep pulling the race card at every corner, keep making Holocaust analogies, keep losing…
“yidden should be on the forefront of working towards some realistic framework for providing asylum to those arrriving at our borders fleeing violence at home.”
Yidden should be on the forefront of securing those spots for YIDDEN. You have a confused approach to the world. An interest in the safety of yidden does not make a kal v’chomer that we have to be interested in everyone’s well-being equally. It is not in our interests as a people to let boarder hoppers get away with it and refuse to enforce the law of the land.
You’re sounding like a classic Conservative/Reform pulpit rabbi who throws out catchy buzz words like “tikkun olam” as a blanket defense of senseless, bleeding-heart leftist policy which serves no productive purpose to us.
“Any idea as to how many Chareidi “shaluchim” from EY overstay their visas and should be locked up by ICE and dragged to the airport and deported?? ”
Assuming you aren’t just making all of this up, which I’m quite sure you are, what’s your point? That we should deport them? That we shouldn’t deport anyone and just let our country be lawless?“Yidden can be notoriously selective in applying moral outrage”
That’s a middah tova that real frum yidden have. You, on the other hand, consistently seem to be more concerned with the well being of goyim than that of your own people. A “brotherhood of man” is not a Jewish idea, no matter how much the socialist, religious-left wants to pretend it is. If we didn’t put our own people first none of us would be here today.And, by the way, the ganzer Jewish world (including seculars) is actually notorious for self-loathing. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you were only referring to religious Jews.
“so as chassidim we hope that hashem will chose him”
Apparently Hashem didn’t. Because, you know, he died.
CTL:
Are you arguing against your own comrades? It’s the liberals who keep insisting that ICE raids are racially biased. We Trumpists don’t care what skin color they are; if they’re here illegally they need to be deported ASAP. You seem to be the only one making assumptions here and claiming that they are “common assumptions.”Was it explicit that the daughter was post-bas-mitzvah age? Little girls come into the men’s section pretty commonly in Orthodox shuls.
Either way, he was probably just using her as a sob story to bash Orthodoxy. He can say whatever he wants, and if you defend your beliefs you might as well be Jewish ISIS. It’s a societal problem, not a personal one.
By the way, everything Joseph has said here is true and shouldn’t be controversial on a frum site. The lengths to which some of you have gone to disagree with him on this thread is borderline kefira at best.