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“And Neville and apukerma, yes for now things are still tolerable, but we are seeing things slowly changing and becoming more accepted and encouraged. ”
What we’re trying to tell you is that even if it was an extremely quick rate of change (which it’s not by your own words), it would take a century or more for the US to catch up with Israel in terms of danger.You can try to get people to move to Israel. There are religious advantages; there are all kinds of arguments you could make, but not the “safe-haven” argument. The fact that 19th century philosophers dreamt of a Jewish safe haven in eretz Yisrael has no relevance because that entity does not exist. It’s a dangerous place. There’s no more point in turning the blind eye to that reality than there is to turning the blind eye to the Antisemitism in the US you’re talking about.
Did somebody out-troll Joseph?
Joseph, obviously he/she doesn’t actually think wearing skirts is comparable to refraining from gebrokts. It’s an obvious troll thread at this point. A satire on the kind of things we would expect MO people to say.
There’s a halachic argument to be made for short-brimmed based on a Rashi in Shabbos. No matter, stylistically I still prefer wide/medium brimmed.
Israel: tens of Jews get murdered every year by people chanting “death to the Jews.”
America: 12 year old kid draws swastikas with chalk probably during recess.
Zionists: “Israel is a wayyyyy safer place to live.”
“Can a shidduch be successful if they are on the ‘same page’ in everything except their hashkofas?”
What’s left to agree on? Physical attraction?
I don’t know why I’m indulging as I’m 98% sure this is trolling.
It’s true. Stores do not stock healthy brim size hats anymore. If you find yourself needing a new hat, you find yourself looking like an 18 year-old hipster.
I don’t get hava amina about living vicariously through their kids. Aren’t they the ones wearing the hats themselves?
Discover:
To explain the thing you noticed about YWN readers, many of us, whether we admit it openly or not, are coming here for openly biased reporting. That’s what sells in general, as you can tell from the rest of the world.YWN has a pretty clear conservative political bias, which many of us like. Reading another frum publication like Hamodia you don’t get this so it gets a little boring. There’s also going to be biases with regards to religious hashkafa. Obviously we aren’t looking for a paper that gives objective treatment to news regarding Conservative/Reform movements. The readership here is always going to be Orthodoxy uber allez. Once you open up that flood gate, there are obviously going to be some people who feel rejected by the subjectivity.
Another thing is that we have forums and comment sections here that other sites don’t. People might want to complain about the frumness of every newspaper, but you’ll only see it here. And, it will be exaggerated on the CR which is, for reasons theorized about on other threads, clearly more charedi than the comment sections of the home page.
Oh, and by the way, the comment by RebYid you’re referring to was a joke.
There’s a heter to publish/distribute pictures of a woman even if it will cause people to gaze at her if it’s for the mitzvah of publicly shaming her and ruining her life forever.
You Zionists will really jump on any opportunity to derail a thread, won’t you?
“Not if it will make some people feel bad”
Ha. Facts don’t care about your feelings. If a town has an epidemic for halachah-ignoring behavior, the world deserves to know.Lechaim: CS subsequently admitted to being a meshichist after hundreds of posts of skirting questions. It’s a tough thread to jump into on page 41. Don’t assume just because it’s on YWN that it’s a chabad hate fest. There are questionable methods used by Lubavitchers and Litvaks both in these kind of arguments. You can pick whichever side you want, but not on the basis that this was just an innocent thread trying to explain chabad shittos to those who might be interested. That cover has been blown for probably over a thousand posts now.
“Not sure why this thread was brought up in the first place if ppl here have no interest.”
It was started by a Lubavitcher who wanted to convince us of Lubavitch shittos. So, that’s why we’ve responded the way we have.“What if birth rate changes and the frum slow down?”
RSo’s comment was that more people frei out than join the frum world. Your response was that this would mean, with mathematical certainty, that the frum world would vanish, not that it would vanish on the condition that people also stopped having babies. Theoretically, yes, the OTD rate could exceed the birth rate if numbers changed around. Are you claiming that’s how you interpreted RSo’s comment? I don’t think that’s how he meant it, but I could actually understand where you’re coming from if you thought he meant “more people leaving than coming in” included births in the “coming in” part.Yes on weekdays, no on Shabbos.
“I still hold of the theory I said – without looking at the birth rate”
That’s makes 0 sense. The majority of growth comes from the birth rate. Why on earth would you construct a theory that ignores it? OK, yes, is 0 Jews were being born then we would cease to exist. Congratulations, your theory holds up.“As I said you found a few things that a few chabad ppl do”
The things referenced are categorically Chabad minhagim: not sleeping in the sukkah, eating before davening, davening late, etc. They are not neo-chassidishe shticks we’re complaining about; read the thread.“Even other chassidic groups dont become litvaks (nothing to do with chabad) rather others are becoming chassidic.”
First of all, that has nothing to do with anything. Second of all, it’s not true at all. Have you never met an ex-chassid/heimishe person who sends their sons to Litvish yeshiva? Those families are quite possibly the majority of the frum NYC population. Not that I’m claiming them as a victory for team-Lita or something or rather. I would rather people stick to their mesoras. The point is, your statement is false.“i was looking at it from a theoretical point, that according to you there is a possibility for religious people to die out.”
And I still contend that you didn’t understand his original statement. Even if the number of people freing out per year were 100 times the incoming baal teshuva rate, that does not necessarily mean the frum would be doomed to die out (even “in theory”). The rates of people entering and exiting by-choice has little to do with the growth rate of the charedi population.” I would agree with you if that would be the only things that chabad does…”
We aren’t saying that, but those chumros are not as Chabad-unique as you probably think. There are plenty of groups that have Chabad’s chumros and then some (eg. virtually all other Chassidim) without the kulos. If it were just the awesomeness of Chabad’s observance drawing people in, why wouldn’t they go for a stricter chassidus?LT:
I’m not sure who you’re using as your test case, but all of us have observed multiple Chassidishe communities and found what you’re saying not to be the case. I’ll let you in on another secret: 10 o’clock shachris is not the norm for chassidim. Only Chabad, and maybe some neo-chassidic types who like to sleep in after partying the night before. And, it should be said that true Chabadniks are careful to say the shema b’zman.We aren’t accusing you of lying. It sounds like you’re just making inferences from a group that does not represent anything close to the norm.
Charlie: To be fair, a lot of the languages you mentioned have significant overlap. Eg. the difference between “Rabbinic Hebrew,” and “Biblical Hebrew” is mostly grammatical, not vocabulary. It’s not like you’d truly have to learn 2 different languages.
” I did simple math: if “more people become non-religious than become religious.” Then eventually there will be no more religious ppl.”
You left people being born out of the equation. The frum population can grow even with a greater number of OTD’s than BT’s as long as the birth-rate exceeds the differential. The proof is in the pudding.RSo’s point (which I agree with) is that it shouldn’t be surprising that people would switch to a group that allows them to daven late, not sleep in the sukkah, drink excessively, and call themselves “chossids.” That’s not a proof of emes that’s just a proof of easiness.
apush:
I have no problem owning up to the viewpoint that you seem to think is hypocritical. If a parent has 5+ kids and is expected to pay 10K+ in tuition for them, that’s a crisis. When a yeshiva asks for 10K+ in tuition per student, pays its staff minimally, and can’t be bothered to pay them on time, it’s not a crisis; it’s just mismanagement. And yes, I would say teachers should take one out of the power companies’ books and be less forgiving. They shouldn’t be taken advantage of.“Saying not to open new ones when there aren’t enough slots for everyone isn’t a solution.”
But having teachers as slaves is? If there aren’t enough slots then expand the existing yeshivas.Yeah, Sam, I think you have it backwards. Hiding the moshiach thing is the propoganda, not the other way around.
“I agree with shuali, it’s more of a problem in new and developing schools”
I agree also. It’s not like this is a problem in 100% of yeshivas. It is not, as some have asserted, that all yeshivas are financially insolvent by definition. People should not be opening new ones without enough cash flow and savings to be able to pay their teachers. It defies common sense.
In any other industry everyone would agree. When you talk about yeshivas, suddenly nobody cares about the teachers. The way the Litvish world views “the yeshivas” as a collective is relatively in-tune with how Lubavitchers view “the Rebbe.” If an unethical action is committed, rather than own up to it, they redefine their entire ethical code such that the action is now considered acceptable.
Any sensible business would figure risks into their balance sheet like missed payments and plan their expenses accordingly. They shouldn’t be able to get around doing this by having the fall-back option of not paying their employees. I think it would solve a lot of problems if they operated under a true free-market capitalist system. I would say that about any business; it’s nothing personal against yeshivas. Contrary to what’s said on other threads, I am not a Communist.
“note to “Anonymous Jew” — The “five towns” are one of the richest Jewish community in the world.”
Yet the yeshivas there still have a reputation of not paying on time. Hmmmmm… It’s almost like there’s something more to the picture than “being inclusive…”“Maybe when the poskim for the schools learned it up, they decided that it’s more important for a school to have a building, with electricity and heat.”
They would find it’s a greater chiyuv to pay the goyish electric company for their services than to pay fellow Jewish teachers? Unfortunately, as messed up as it is, you might not be wrong.In all my years on the CR, I don’t believe I’ve ever seen a thread created arguing that white-shirts are inherently holier, yet I’ve seen probably over 10 threads arguing against davka-white-shirt in favor of CC’s approach. For people who are supposed to be secure with your frumulinity, you sure like to get defensive.
“the real world economics to not apply to learning Torah.”
Lol nice. We’ll see how that works if teachers/rebbeim tell it to their landlords when they can’t make rent.I’d like to give a heartfelt thanks to the cool-aid guzzlers for proving my original point over and over again.
“That’s not the first time you’ve advocated for closing yeshivas. What’s up with that?”
Yeah, and the other time was just over a little minor thing like child-molestation. I guess I’m a real koifer now.“If it were a mainstream business it wouldn’t be open because it’s not profitable.”
OK. Change my original statement to “mainstream non-profit organization” and it still holds true. If they have employees, they pay them. If the money isn’t there, they go bankrupt.
Gaon: That’s lehatchilah. He’s claiming they are mevatel the mitzvah altogether. His only proof seems to be that he’s inferring from the time of their minyan that they MUST not be saying the shema. That’s a pretty embarrassing mistake even for a newcomer.
“You make it sound like they don’t pay because they can get away with it.
When they don’t pay, it’s because they don’t have the money.”
The two reasons are not mutually exclusive. If it was a mainstream business, not having the money would not be a legitimate reason. They are employing people many of whom would not work at other institutions so they don’t really have to answer to free market capitalism like real businesses. A normal business would lose employees and maybe eventually face legal trouble.P.S. for onlookers, see what I mean about societal pressure to never criticize them?
“Neville, when a chassidish minyan starts at 9:40 on a shabbos, ask around how many of the congregants actually said krias shema.”
That is absolute bologna. There are plenty of non-chassidishe minyanim that don’t reach krias shema until after zman during parts of the year as well (maybe the whole year by M”A). Everyone says it before davening.For one, they’re protected by mesirah and they know it. For two, people don’t want to publicly say anything bad about them (see child-abuse threads) on account of societal pressure. Good thing the CR exists for such situations.
“Or as silly as the shtarker litvaks decrying chassidim completely ignoring the mitzvah deoraysa of zman krias shma. That ship has sailed. Move on.”
Do you mean to say zman hatefillah? I’ve never heard of chassidim missing krias shema. If anything they’re more strict since they don’t hold by the Gra’s times like many Litvaks might.
“Also, like Berel Wein said, the Mussar Movement lost. So white shirts black pants it is.”
I found it highly dubious that any knowledgeable person would have ever said anything even close to that. I did a little googling and it seems like Berel Wein would not say “the mussar movement lost.”
Even ignoring the doubtful credibility of the reference, where are you guys getting this idea that white shirts somehow contradicts mussar? It just seems completely random. ~100 years ago university students probably wore button-downs and suits, so that statement in the OP doesn’t carry much weight today unless you think yeshiva bochrim should wear gym shorts and tank tops with Greek letters on them to keep up with the times.
Why DO places go like Slabodka in other regards like derech halimud?
I’m not sure if it’s archived, but when they ran the poll on whether or not yeshivas should require vaccination, it showed a map of where votes were coming from. There were some coming from states where no Jews live like South Dakota if I recall correctly. Admittedly, I’m not sure if that could just be an error in the locator technology.
Writer, what’s making you think it’s being ignored? It’s been published on the media and the police are investigating. Why don’t you just say what you think people should be doing instead of making general complaints about how they’re doing nothing, which is completely untrue anyway.
” I think a good test to see if they are mitztaer (at any level) is to offer to set up a nice bed in their sukkah in perfect weather and see if they would sleep there or opt to sleep in their house.”
Read this thread. Reach the sicha. Talk to a Lubavitcher. You don’t understand the minhag if you think that’s a test worth doing.
Trump immediately disavowed the David Duke endorsement; the “slow response” thing was outed as fake news a long time ago.
Do you think the integrity of Yahoo News is damaged by weird stuff random people ask on Yahoo Answers? I think most people have the common sense to differentiate between various services offered by a site.
Only if someone shows up in blackface. It has to be realistic.
“And ctlawyer and rebetzin, you are giving specific examples of exclusive facilities”
No he wasn’t. He was giving the general example of the standard, WASP sub-development in America before they criminalized that type if discrimination. It was the rule, not the exception.writer:
Lemme guess, you wanted to pose the solution that we all vacate the US to avoid our impending Nazi-doom (as many have before on the CR), but somebody messed it up for you by preemptively pointing out that it’s still worse in every other country on earth.
Aside from the actual neo-Nazi cases like in Pittsburgh, I imagine a lot of the lesser Antisemitism (eg. graffiti, internet) is worsening thanks to Jewish comedians desensitizing everyone to it with their self-deprecating humor.
YWN is not a site like CNN pretending to be unbiased. We come here for Yeshivishly biased news. If the bias we come here for manifests itself in the moderation sometimes that would neither surprise nor bother me.
“Your seeing it start to unleash and it’s never been this open and freely accepted here in America.”
Can’t tell if trolling or actually has that much of an abysmal knowledge of American history.“Why does YWN keep on accepting advertisements that this person, a supposed “miracle worker”, is coming to town? Doesn’t YWN have any standards?”
They also have a history of advertising get-rich-quick business seminars… So, I think the answer is no. They have no standards.
“As to DY’s skepticism of Rav Tendler’s credibility, I’ll repeat my original admonition to take anything attributed to anonymous internet sources with a grain of salt.”
Meaning we should be skeptical of it, yet our skepticism seems to bother you. Was it a hollow disclaimer?
If you take the greater Rav Tendler controversy out of the question, the story still makes no sense as you presented it. It seems to say that behind closed doors, Reb Moshe held like the Pri Chodosh, and his teshuvah is just something he told to the masses. There’s no reason to believe he would do that.
“I could refer you to a blatt gamara, but if you don’t see why this is wrong, I don’t think you’re capable of learning gemara”
Everyone knows that blatt from Maseches Blackface. It’s the only blatt you anti-blaxxers seem to learn. It’s clear that the entire frum community does not posken like the shittah you reference from that daf, and trying to revive it 2000 years later to justify your anti-blaxxer beliefs is borderline kefira.
Gadol: Seems odd that, based on your story, Reb Moshe’s shittah was identical to the Pri Chodosh. His heter as it is written is not at all as you present it. The lack of camels in the neighborhood is not relevant to Reb Moshe’s heter.
Not to accidentally be motzi shem ra, but is the rabbi mentioned in Gadol’s post the one who is known to fraudulently claim that Reb Moshe said/wrote things which he never really did?
Yudel: Why wouldn’t that make all of our beef treif as well?
“Today however, ou certified milk is plentiful and this hashgacha is as good or better than cholov Yisroel.”
Lol. Freilichen Purim.
“If it’s flash pasteurized, many poskim consider it mevushal, so you can drink it even if poured by a non Jewish.”
You’re original statement was unconditional, implying that every case of mevushal wine is a heter.
Also, I’m not sure it’s a good mashal anyway. Reb Moshe never claimed chalav stam is literally chalav Yisroel, whereas in this case the shittah is that it is 100% mevushal (I thought).