Neville Chaimberlin Lo Mes

News sources still seem split on how they’re reporting it, but I don’t see any conclusive evidence of what you’re saying. I’m not sure why you’re pretending I’m the only one interpreting it this way.

When I look up articles, some of them report the proposal outright as “permanent daylight savings time,” while many others use wording like “doing away with time changes,” which could mean either. YWN fell on the “permanent DST” side when they reported it a few days back.

The Daily Wire uses your terminology, but the tweets they’re using as sources only mention getting rid of time changes, which, again, could mean either. They also bring Marco Rubio as an advocate for this, and he’s made it explicitly known that he wants year round DST.

The only proof I will accept is if you have a trustworthy source that uses the terminology “permanent standard time.” Even the phrase “doing away with DST” could actually mean adopting permanent DST as the new standard time and thus doing away with time changes. As I said earlier, it is very, very common for people to mix these up and just use the phrase “daylight savings time” to refer to the act of changing clocks in general. How else do you explain different news sources understanding this differently?

The only article I found that really went all-in on interpreting this your way was one by Newsweek that was using it to bash Trump (remember, everyone outside of frum yidden prefer DST over standard time, so it would be wildly unpopular).

In any case, even if it turns out that Trump really is advocating for what you say (wouldn’t surprise me if he chose the authoritarian idea over the pro-states-rights idea as he is a fake conservative after all), that would just mean I disagree with him as usual. I’m not sure why you think my arguments have to be “based on the understanding” that Trump holds a certain way. I’m still going to be pro-DST and pro-states-rights whether Trump agrees or not. To be honest, I did not come across reporting of Trump weighing in on this, just Vivek and Musk.

“maybe. why these became the issue? it is either increased contact (Austro-Hungarian empire?) or, maybe more likely, chassidic influence in previously litvishe areas bringing those minhagim in.”

You’re framing your theory as an Eastern European elitist. The central European minhagim have their basis in non-Chassidish sources. The fact that most of the people keeping them today happen to be Chassidish does not negate them. Most or all of these minhagim go back way farther than Minhag haGra.

Both sides have some minhagim that actually go far back. Chassidim have some that were changed due to kabalah or whatever, then the Litvaks have some that were changed due to the Gra. Mathematically, if you only look at the changes, I’m not sure Chassidim come out worse. To make the equation work in your favor, you’re left either insulting age-old minhagim that have nothing to do with Chassidus, or basically saying “it’s only okay when WE change the mesora, but you aren’t allowed to.”

“Sephardim say it at the usual times as most Ashkenazim.”
Sephardim do not say it the week following Shavuos, nor on Pesach sheni, nor (I believe) the entire month of Tishrei.

Yechiell: Why do you care? If you got the vaccine, you’re fine (unless you’re the one making an anti-vaxxer statement).

If other people want to take risks with their own lives, it shouldn’t bother you.

“To broaden your limited understanding, a simple Google search will reveal the 1966 Uniform Time Act, which prohibits year-round DST. However, year-round Standard Time is not illegal.”

Correct. Any state could already adopt year round standard time, or more standard time than others, but cannot take on extra DST. Year round federal DST would effectively mean states could take on as much as they want, or as little (as is already their right).

“I’m not sure what your suspicions are based on.”
A couple of things. For starters, the opposite was widely reported before this sudden shinoy lashon. For two, people commonly say “do away with DST” when they really just mean do away with changing the clocks. You only “lose” an hour in the summer due to the time change. Year round DST would also get rid of this problem, so that’s not a proof. It’s all relative; if every state adopted daylight savings time year round, we would eventually stop calling it DST as it would be an outdated reference. It would just be the new standard time.

“At this point, the federal government cannot expand DST to be all year”
Sure they could. It’s not like it’s set by a Constitutional Amendment. Sure, they’ll have to change the laws around a bit, but I think that’s always gone without saying. They already can and have expanded DST within our lifetimes.

“nor does it make sense for most states to do so.”
Then there should be no concern with leaving it up to the states. “Most” states won’t do it if it doesn’t “make sense,” then those for whom it makes sense will do it.

“how many of the men are exiting for other reasons (eg off the derech)”
Not many, and if there were it would just make the problem worse.

“Is the age gap really that wide? (real data says no)”
You’re simply wrong. Everybody knows that Litvishers marry at an age gap as I explained earlier. I’m not sure if you’re turning the blind eye to reality or just shamelessly lying at this point. It’s hard for me to believe that anyone even marginally acquainted with the yeshivish world could possibly suggest that the minhag is not for the husband to be older. Your “data” (if it actually exists) is probably pulling from too many groups. This crisis is very specific to one community. Chassidim and MO people don’t have this problem.

“IT would be very odd if after the dust settles and the 10 men went on their 50 dates 5 women never got dates.”
Huh? This has nothing to do with anything. Nobody cares about whether or not people can go on dates. If there is a surplus of let’s say 5 thousand women this past year, then it’s perfectly possible that every women gets to date, but 5 thousand still won’t get married as there won’t enough guys.

Your denial seems to be based on denying that Litvishers marry at an age gap, but you seem like you would accept that if there were an age gap there therefore would be a surplus. I’m not sure what I can say to convince you of the easily observable minhag. If you, as I suspect, live in a smallish, OOT community where you really don’t interact with many real yeshivish people, then you can either take our word for it or keep being willfully ignorant.

“Gemora does”
No, it doesn’t.

“so confirmed by the (very yeshivish) maggid shiur”
It doesn’t even sound like he said it’s assur to wear a hat. How would he feel about you putting those words in his mouth? Not to mention the thing you’re pretending he said would not even be historically accurate. Everyone, including goyim, wore hats 70 years ago in both America and the alter heim. Since you apparently disregard the Mishnah Berurah as proof, you can look up photographs.

“Put yourself in my place: after rav said this to my face, am I allowed to disregard this just because seforim say differently?”
The short answer is yes. If a rav told you to do something that is k’neged widely accepted and written halachah, then there’s no reason not to disregard what he says. Why would you even think otherwise? Again, however, it does not seem like this rav told you not to wear a hat. He said not to dress like a talmid chacham and you took the liberty of interpreting that to suit your own desires. The common application of this in the yeshivish world is that roshei yeshivos wear kapotes and up-brim hats while bochrim wear short jackets and down-brim hats.

Even within your crazy shittah, how does it show a lack of humility to dress exactly like everyone else in a given shul? You’re the one insisting on standing out because you want to show off your self-proclaimed humility, which is obviously counterintuitive.

“It isnt Chazal it is a later machlokes”
Fair enough. He should have said a machlokes rishonim.

“To say “NO basis is Torah ” [sic] is at best inaccurate if not flat out wrong”
True also. He should have said it had no basis in the mesora, not “no basis in Torah.”

“agree completely. particulary since if anything it undermines his point .”
It’s not clear exactly what his point was, but he might have been citing this as an example of powerful Rabbonim putting machmirus over what’s practical for baal habatim. To change the ~1000 year old practice in order to be choshesh for shitas hageonim was no skin off their backs, but starting Shabbos ~45 minutes earlier would be a lot more noticeable for working people. The parallel to this situation seems relatively clear.

To put it in perspective, if we did year-round daylight savings AND still did shitas R”T, Shabbos would never start before 6PM in NYC. People working 9-5’ers would not even have to leave early on Fridays (depending on commutes).

“My question is at what point do we say ok, it isnt clossable, lets look for another solution. 10 years ? 20 years ? 30 ?”
There literally is no other solution. If you think there is, then you don’t understand the problem.

Let me break this down to be a little simpler since you clearly don’t fully believe in this:

If I had a room of 10 men and 15 women and had to match them up for marriage with no polygamy, you accept that there would be 5 women leftover, right?

If a population is growing exponentially, you accept that the population born 5 years later at any given time will exceed that born 5 years earlier, right?

Do you accept that the frum population is growing exponentially?

If you answered yes to all of these, then mazel tov you believe in the shidduch crisis whether you admit it or not. If you answered no to any of these, then you are objectively wrong.

Not closing the age gap means girls dying alone forever, and the number of girls dying alone will grow exponentially. You can’t “beat” math. If one quantity is greater than another, you will end up with a surplus.

JustThink is correct, and it’s pretty common knowledge. It also isn’t as simple as just going around murdering people. You need a Beis Din.

I’m suspect these dinim regarding rov and Amalek being dispersed are what he means by “modern rabbanim interpretation” (using the word modern lightly here since it goes back to Chazal). I don’t want to say that way of thinking is kefiradik, but I also don’t know how to end this sentence.

In any case, Muslims have never implemented their law the way we have. For them, it has always meant literal murdering and chopping off hands. They don’t have a Chazal that told them how to implement these things, so it’s just up for the terrorists to decide.

“Give me a historical example where Yidden were mandated some uniform for davening. Outside of beis hamikdash.”
We already cited sources for you in this very thread. Why do we need to keep rehashing it? Even if you want to say that MB “no longer applies,” it still would be an example of “mandating a uniform for davening.”

“Story is about a gadol not compromising his minhag even when it embarrassed the hosts.”
So, in your quest for humility, you compared yourself to the gadol hador… There’s no shaychus. That story entails him not making what he would consider to be a bracha l’vatallah. You can maybe ask why he did it in a way that risks publicly embarrassing people, but nobody would say he should make the bracha with shem and malchus if he holds it’s l’vatallah.

That’s an actual machlokes haposkim. This situation is not. Nobody poskens that it’s assur to wear a hat and jacket for davening. In fact, everyone real paskens that you should. This is a machlokes between the poskim and random CR posters.

“The Muslim world, like the Christian world, has throughout the centuries risen and fallen in culture vs barbarism. In the last few decades, barbarism has taken hold (again) of the Muslim world.”

It’s not comparable. In an anthropological sense, Nazi Germany was still a civilization as evil as they may have been. Groups like ISIS and Al Queda are simply not; they are more comparable to hoards of barbarians that sustain themselves on constant killing. Even back in the “good old days” when Iran was under the Shah before the Islamists took over, it’s not like Iran was comparable to England.

“They have carried out terrorism globally. To think that they’d be viscous to everyone, including each other, but they’d make exceptions for Jews, if not for Zionism, is ridiculous.”

100% agree. This thread shows the dangers of Chareidim trying to argue against Zionism in a “logical” or political way. Stick to the script: chazal say it’s a problem, so it’s a problem. When people start trying to apply political logic to justify anti-Zionism, they end up integrating this leftist nonsense about how Muslims used to be so nice.

Usually not in agreement, but Square Root is 100% right here. Antisemitism is explicit in the Quran. We are to them as the Amalekim were to us. You can’t appease a group who believes in a chiyuv of killing you.

“the Jews in the Arabic and Muslim lands, by comparison (and that is key) were living mostly peacefully and safely despite sporadic exceptions.”
This just isn’t true. The Muslims could not pull off something like The Holocaust, not because they wouldn’t love to, but simply because they are so bad at life. It’s just not even shayach to compare them to Europeans. They don’t get brownie points for being failures. If modern, western civilizations became as Anti-semitic as Islam (as Germany indeed did), they could do some serious damage. Uncivilized barbarians running around in loin cloths living in their own filth simply could not ever be as big of a threat, but that has nothing to do with their hashkafa being any less Antisemitic.

“Bottom line – can someone ask a shaila: a Reform person takes an artscroll siddur and copies pages with amidah – are you allowed to use it for davening?”
Did the reform Jew use the copy machine on Shabbos? If so, this would be the same shailah I mentioned earlier. Unfortunately, I don’t remember the exact psak; I think it was one of those “it’s mutar, but you still shouldn’t do it” type of things.

If he didn’t make the copy on Shabbos, then what’s the question?

“No, I mean people with left/right wing secular biases and they are comfortable with translations that caters to their biases.”
Alright. I haven’t personally met anyone like this, but I’ll take your word for it.

“even twisted translations and the like are irrelevant, no one’s hashkafa is getting affected”
Eh, if someone didn’t know better and didn’t realize the translations were twisted, it could absolutely affect their hashkafa. Again, I don’t actually think Sefaria should be wholesale banned or anything.

“And memah nafshach, if the clock doesn’t matter. S owho cares if the clock changes teice a year. Ignore it!”

I generally agree with this stance aside from the fact that I think Shabbos starting later would be beneficial. The other effects of the time change don’t bother me nearly as much as they seem to other people and I think a lot of it is over-dramatization.

“Is that a real issue though among people you know ? they are mechalel shabbos Fridays in the winter? (not is it hard, have they come close etc)”

This is a bad argument, and I’m worried if this is actually Aguda’s stance. Yes, people have found ways around it or have simply been prevented from taking certain jobs. When it becomes a tefillah problem, they’ll find ways around that as well. It’s a moot point. Frum yidden aren’t going to purposely violate the halachah for their jobs, but tefillah is an easier problem to work around since it’s in the first place more meikel than Shabbos. As far as knowing personal experiences, I doubt people would advertise it, but I’m sure there are cases of people getting stuck in their commute in the winter that happen every year. There was a relatively well known story about Joe Lieberman who was otherwise shomer shabbos.

“Is this so? I see online a lot of articles where people try to analyze a parsha or a gemora according to their understanding and maybe trying to line up with their opinions on other topics.”
Yes, and those people want an accurate translation. If anything, the secular scholarly world cares more about translation accuracy than we do. For example, Artscroll purposely mistranslates Shir Hashirim to better shtem with Orthodox sentiment; secular scholars would hate this.

“Not knowing the background, my impression was that the core Sefaria team is kosher”
The founders were not frum yidden from my understanding. They were exactly the scholarly types you reference above. Then again, so was Marcus Jastrow; it doesn’t mean the product is assur.

“Do you think all YWN software was written by shomer shabbos programmers or 99% of it is open software?”
First of all, yes, I don’t believe YWN was created through chillul shabbos. I’m not sure why you would assume otherwise. Second of all, the question is around Sefaria because of it being used for davening and/or performing mitzvos. An internet forum does not have these concerns.

“Where the Agudah describes their advocacy on this issue and posts a Teshuva from R” Moshe encoruaging fighting against Year round DST”
With all due respect, I’d give more weight to the people who actually work 9-5’ers rather than Rabbis whose jobs intrinsically adjust for the halachah and couldn’t care less if Shabbos started at 1 PM.

“also FWIW R’ Moshe rejects this argument”
What argument? That Shabbos matters more than zman hatefilla? Zero chance.

“this is a bizzare claim .”
Why? The Sun will still rise and set as it does. We will just refer to it by a different number on a clock. Nothing is changing astronomically; it’s purely mental as he said.

AAQ: What’s your point? I wasn’t being anti-sefaria, I was being anti a purposeful mistranslation of Tanach that uses modern, leftist gender theory. I think this got brought up because someone said that translation is on sefaria, but otherwise this part of the discussion has no connection to sefaria at all.

ZSK: Obviously I know that leftist, non-Orthodox Jews exist. My point was, there is no group that wants a leftist version of the Tanach. The only reason the leftists are learning Tanach is to make fun of it and/or claim that it’s outdated, bigoted, etc. The last thing they want is a whitewashed translation that makes it sound more palatable to them.

Philosopher: People always get touchy about this, and I’m not sure why either. I couldn’t give you to location because I just remember hearing it in a shiur, but Reb Moshe addresses the question of using a siddur that was printed with chillul shabbos. It’s not so clear cut that “it’s just a siddur so who cares how it was made and who made it.” I’m not sure why people are so much more willing to take this lenient approach with Sefaria.

I do think Sefaria is mutar, but it’s not simple. Given who designed it, it’s almost certain some chillul shabbos was involved. People would not be crazy to worry that it’s mitzvah habaah b’aveira, but I don’t think it actually is, nor is it so pashut that that would even make it assur.

“I was arguing that the Shidduch crisis does not affect females more than males, since for every female who does not get married there must also be a man who does not get married.”

You’re still incorrect. The minhag in the Litvish community is for girls to be 5-7 years younger than their husbands, which means there will be a surplus of whichever gender is younger, in this case the women. If the minhag was for 19 year old boys to marry 25 year old women, then the shidduch crisis would exist in the other direction.

“In the early 2000s (or maybe the 1990s) I asked dozens of shadchanim:”

And they gave you answers that prove what we all already know: that they’re part of the problem.

“Yashardik, you are so right. The reason I argued so much about “Yaacov lo meis” is because Lubavitche…”

Absolute nonsense. 100% of the posters you were arguing with on that topic were non-Lubavitchers. Don’t try to spin it like you don’t actually care about that subject except for when Lubavitchers use it. You are obsessed with that subject to the point to interpreting every pirush to agree with your personal belief on it.

If you want to know what it looks like to “not care” about that topic, then look at those of us to casually accept the standard Orthodox presentation of it without question because we have better things to learn than midrashim that aren’t nogeia to anything.

“You know what isn’t listed? When someone doesn’t have a hat and jacket…”
Agreed, but this was UJM’s quote:

“Rav Moshe in 90:28 says it’s permissible to daven b’yechidus at times.”

What would have been the hava amina? That nobody can ever daven b’yochid? I’m confused altogether by the quote.

“The Age Gap is not the issue. There are plenty of boys.”

You don’t understand simple math. In an exponentially growing population, there are more people born in later years than earlier. I.e. there are more people born in 1995 than there were in 1990. So, if you try to pair up girls born in 1995 with boys born in 1990, there will be a surplus of girls. The same will hold true for any gap, even if it’s only 1 year. It just just affect how much of the surplus there is.

This would be true even if the population grew linearly, but because it’s grows exponentially, the problem gets worse and worse every year and the surplus of girls will just keep growing.

The real crisis is that the frum community apparently has such terrible math education that full grown adults don’t understand that the shidduch crisis is an easily provable reality. In public schools, kids would easily understand this at roughly a 7th grade level.

“Neville, not sure which posts was last for you, but I let you treat all my posts as jokes.”

The one with you bragging about how humble you are. I was clarifying that you were being ironic on purpose and not just extremely lacking in self awareness and/or the meaning of the word “humble.”

“Rav Moshe in 90:28 says it’s permissible to daven b’yechidus at times.”

What’s the chiddush? Would you have otherwise thought that if you miss minyan you just don’t daven at all? Of course davening b’yochid is an option.

“Or maybe, they indeed went to increase their market share …”

Yeah… I’m sure there’s a huuuuuuge market for pro-trans people wanting to learn Tanach…

“The alternative to a two state solution is for Israel to cease being a democratic state (either by killing the Palestinians or not allowing a large part of them to vote).”

Stop being a drama queen. There’s no “two state solution” right now and Israel isn’t having to “cease being a democracy” or start committing genocide (contrary to leftist claims).

The status quo is far more manageable than a two state solution would be. Most regular people are fine admitting that there is no “solution.” The problem will always be there; it’s just about managing it and continuing winning militaristically. They will always want to kill us all. It’s a core tenet of their religion.

Does Otzar Hachochma have more kedushah than Hebrewbooks? Does it look like a website designed in 1999?