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Dear Just,
“Solid halachik standing”, is not an incentive. going to a shul this is struggling with a minyan, is far more of an obligation than going to shul at all. Yet, most of us go where we prefer. My question is to why MO=minyan only Jews, prefer davening on their porches? Will they be tolerant of porch minyanim becoming permanent?Dear Health,
I Looked up the letter. R’ Miller, does not endorse these minyaim at all. He says they are only allowed from a medical standpoint if certain criteria are met. Additionally, from the perspective of halachah it is problematic. He writes that it should only be done for mincha with a short chazzoras hashatz.For those who think the main risk of spread is from davening with a minyan, they should only daven with the same minyan when shuls reopen
I was advised not to take advice from online comments. I guess deciding on a Rov to follow about a gathering that is probably not a minyan anyways, is regarded as less than advice.
The main question is, who is the Rav that I ask about whom to ask about whom to ask?
Because the only qeustion people may possibly have is about a porch minyan. The Rabbonim are also not answering any other questions now. In fact,we are starting a new movement; MO= Minyan Only.
Why do we assume that it is better to daven in the street with a safek minyan, than setting aside a place inside?
Forget about the health, I do not see a Torah value in these “minyanim”. Except some people need it for their wellbeing.Dear Common,
I apologize, I mixed up your conversations. It seems like Health wants us to follow his medical advice. and Joseph, wants us to follow his rabbinical advice. I want to know if I am missing something with porch minyanim. They do not seem to be be tefillah b’tzibbur at all. Other than inspiration, there does not seem to be any halacha issue.I am still a teen, so very little changed for me personally. Mentally though, it is quite trying to contemplate what my community and country (both) are being hit with. catch- I would add shuls and yeshivos to my list. I have been studying and davening without all the nonesense that is brought in to our holy houses. kgn- Why do we assume that if Moshiach comes, there is no more virus? According to the Rambam, I am living in the times of Moshiach, I could daven and study Torah all day. But, oh, yeah, it is a very very painful and serious time. I think that is the message of today for the individual. May we all be able to be able to study Torah together with peace and without worry.
Dear Common,
I was just summarizing your point. The courts create a law, it does not assume our participation. The CDC issues guidelines that they think we can keep. our doctors can issue greater or lesser ones. The Rabbonim may speak either way, or not at all. I still wonder why the Rav has more Torah authority than the local doctor on our front yards.
It could be that the doctor on the video, feels that way on people taking disregarding the risk who happen to be Rabbonim. I still maintain that this is not the battle for Kavod HaTorah in our day.Dear common,
Your take is to follow the Rabbonim and the CDC, but not the Supreme Court. Should one take advice from online comments?Dear Reb Eliezer,
I do not follow. Are you responding to Joseph? Is that a reason to celebrate or not to celebrate? It does not relate to why we would or would not say Hallel.Dear Joseph,
If I where you, I would assume that Yseribus is from the gedolei harabbonim and just accept what he says for the klal.Today frum yidden celebrate lag ba’omer instead.
Seventy years ago, the yeshivos barely celebrated Purim. They observed Yom HaAtzmut by nodding and thinking, “yup that happened”.
Dear common,
I am reacting for the kovod of the Torah, because you seem to be distorting Torah for an unclear motive. One should always talk respectfully, even when commenting online. (And even someone as unworthy as myself.) Even more so when it is directed at the educated, all the more when they are knowledgeable in Torah. But it is hard to hold someone who is working overtime on saving lives in the midst of an unprecedented event. There is no reason to assume he has extreme negative views of the Rabbanim. People say things and don’t really mean them.
However, if like Joseph, you assume the Rabbonim have the final or only say on these matters, please tell us why that should be. Whether a Rav owns his shul or is hired by one, it goes with a large degree of following his directives in the shul and all the intercommmunal functions. Our porches and front yards are not part of his shul. Joseph stated “what is and what is not within their purview to rule upon for the klal”. saw tahave no idea how such an anti Torah idea became so mainstreamed. Maybe because for much of the diaspora, we chose to follow specific leaders in specific lands for all matters. The Torah only affords that authority to the court of 71 in the hewn chamber.
May we all live to see the Glory Of Torah restored to it’s place.You are correct, assuming that you normally do not refrain from shaving on Rosh Chodesh.
Mishna Berurah 493: 5Health or no health, we are trying to decipher what is inspirational tefillah without halchic prayer, in the context of a minyan that is possibly equivalent to davening beyichidus. It is implicit in the mishna that one may not pray where there may be any danger. There is no need for a reminder. And it should not be seen as a rebellion, because they are not pushing for an ease of restrictions. Haimy sounds like he is more inspired davening outside, than in shul. May all his bakashos be answered.
Dear common,
Is the issue medical opinions, or kovod hatorah?If it is the latter, we should start with topics that are not vital. And, where the speaker is clearly advocating for the destruction of our Torah based community. There are many such personalities, some receive a lot of respect from us. Keep in mind that kovod hatorah includes using it as a tool to promote oneself. We shouldn’t ban someone that the community needs their service, even if they are of detrimental character. When the fireman arrives to extinguish the fire, his opinions do not matter.
Though it seems to me that you are bothered by doctors giving opinions that interfere with the halachah. Well, in serious medical matters they have the right. One who has the knowledge to save lives, is required to do so. Even if it is not respect for the Rov, it is kovod hatorah to put jewish lives. This scenario happened many times, the cholora outbreak in Vilna, the cantonists, the Mir yeshiva’s escape, and so on. Today no one says that it was a lack of kovod hatorah. It is very clear that saving lives requires us not too ask to many halachic questions. The doctor has the solicited opinion of being docheh shabbos. Who would solicit someone with no medical knowledge, for a matter of life and death? If A rov says that you can drive to the hospital on shabbos for a hangnail, but you cannot for a child with a high fever, would you listen?
P. S. I have no idea who this doctor is or what he said. And I am trying not to find out. If he was discussing politics or some other nonsense, I am not defending that.lower – There is a difference between joining the tzibbur, and just having a minyan. Going to the cemetery or making a siyum does not qualify as a tzibbur. The same for a wedding. A minyan is not worthless. We can still have chazzoras hashatz without a tzibbur. The reasons you gave seem out of sorts with what is going on. I would venture that the Rosh Yeshiva – like Haimy – finds it inspiring to daven outside with his neighbors. May we all be inspired to pour our tefillos into our souls.
Health & Gadol; we are discussing the safety question. The topic is inspiration. Which I think is wonderful. I question why it is being promoted as representing the concept of tefilla b’tzibbur. We could daven outside without a minyan. Whatever we do, it should be with utmost care for everyone’s health.
Dear lower and his venerated LOR,
Your opinion is a bit puzzling to me. What does it mean to daven together with social distancing? How does your neighbor davening on his porch, designate your porch as a makom m’yuchad l’tefillah? Do you state first that your porches should not have kedushas beis hakenesses? If your porch or yard is not designated for davening, it would be better to daven in a specific corner of your home, like our mothers have done – and still do- for centuries.
What is a verbal kedushah worth, when we cannot interact with each other. What is laining besides for studying Torah together? Birchas kohanim is a result of a completion of our service to Hashem. It exists as a reminder that our shuls and yeshivos are our mikdash me’at. Sadly, there is no resemblance with what we have now. Minyan is not a personal whim. It is meant to serve the public.
I do think it is appropriate that those that can, should daven kabbolos shabbos, hallel, etc, outside for the inspiration of others, such as Haimy. May His Presence be returned To His Designated city.
P. S. I think burning chometz was about that those in Lakewood are not Boy Scouts.Your inspiration is pleasing to the ears! But referring to people staying 40 feet apart as botei knessios, seems to be the opposite of Umulah Ha’aretz dea. I would faster skip davening than be the shliach tzibbur at such an un-gathering.