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Dear Doodle,
They view themselves as revolutionaries that have access to the real facts. (Not all of them think of themselves as better people for revolting.)Dear Cent,
Your argument has precedent. Stalin would order his victims to find their own executioner, so that their comrades would still support him. (As he would not directly kill them.) I’m not sure why the government’s policy affects how people decide to take care of themselves. It is hypocritical to be anti big government during a pandemic, and then pontificate over every detail of the Governor’s edict. Who cares how the general public goes about it. You can breathe on your own. (Without the opinion of your Doctor, psak of your Rav, and protocol of your Governor.)and some people post news without giving a clear opinion.
Some people watch too much television and get paranoid. Others who watch too much, go bankrupt, avoid paying taxes and get elected President.
Dear Haimy,
You are polarizing the opinion of a health care policy expert versus a whole bunch of other doctors. There is not much difference between what they are saying. If you do not have any symptoms, you can take a walk. If you still have a job, you could go to work. If you are self employed, you could daven to get customers. Either way, please wash your hands.Dear Joseph,
You seem to have mastered the art of being serious and light at once. I thought only the President can make a direct recommendation while being sarcastic.Dear Joseph,
Are you still making light of rhetoric?Dear Haimy,
What Dr. Atlas is advocating will not help millions of people. Yes, we can take a walk around the block. If we hug every person you meet, we will be back where we were a month ago.You do not exist, outside of you not asking yourself if you exist.
Dear Common,
I am lost on the legal stuff. If that is the pastime here, that do not reply. I am genuinely bewildered at the amount of PUBLIC discussion about every infringement about a slight to religious rights. Tenafly, Jackson, The Hamptons, Bloomingdale, and this etc. (We do not allow human rights to be this sacred.) Is the government on anyone’s list of the cause for our lack of growth in Torah and Mitzvos? (And, if the fear is allowing for dangerous precedent please ignore me. I’ve heard enough of that.)Dear Right,
Commonsaychel had enough of it to avoid this thread. Commonsense is even further removed from here.Dear Someone,
You mean to say a worldview can reach further than the Torah?Dr. Jastrow was a very traditional scholar for his times. One must realize that there were a lot of problems with every method of study in those days. The error with ner is one of a straight reading of the text, something that is common in the dictionary. (Nothing to do with any ‘agendas’ his only goal was to teach Torah and preserve the Jewish tradition. Rabbanim did not have side agendas in those days. People were genuine back then. Today, your non-rav has an agenda to convince the Rav that all the other Rabbis have an agenda.) Many of the confusions he refers to, took decades to clarify. the new dictionaries of today, have the same amount of errors, without the excuse of best available knowledge. The introduction to the Jastrow is just a fragment of a thorough understanding of what gemara is all about. The theories that are prevalent today, are silly and not mentioned by the Geonim. Use Jastrow he knew how to learn, unless your goal is to be an am ha’aretz.
In short, brain death with the lungs being able to breath on their own, does not exist.
Please excuse my writing comprehension.
Dear Ubiquitin,
To make the issue more tenable, I am writing from the perspective of life existing independent from any specific organ. (Like, maybe my hair clippings after a haircut are alive.)
Brain death was not used until 60 years ago. (It was first detected in the late 1950s.) Before then, Death was proven by absence of heart and/or lung functions. When brain death, was clinically diagnosed (proven) there was a fear of people being declared dead, even though their major organs still had independent capability of life. (I’m not sure how science based that fear was, even then.) There is no brain death without total cessation of the lungs. So, the question as it was posed became obsolete.
I thought the resistance to using brain death today, is a fear of hospital bias. And, that the person is breathing on their own, but only because the vent is in. Or, some idea that science cannot determine life or some other thing like that.Dear Common,
I am not interested in the legal angle. It tried to answer what I was asked. I do not understand why someone would back this suit at this point. If people are diligent about how they form their minyan, there will not be any trouble. Do people really believe that we will lose our right to congregate? There is a thread entitled “event 201” for that. It will help my maturity if it can be explained why religious practice freedom of religion are so often conflated.Dear Ziongate,
Zmiros as part of the meal is recent. Originally composed around 1000 years ago, they were used in shul, or at home AFTER the meal. The kabbakists composed some for before they ate.Dear Common,
Excellent! Fifteen years should be enough time to prep an answer for anything. But, hindsight may render your arguments unreasonable.Dear Right,
I was trying on your hat.Dear Common,
1) So, can we sue for how Congress spends your tax money?
2)Only oneself knows his own obligations.
3)The virus does not care about anyone’s feelings.Dear Someone,
It is complete ignorance of Torah to compare it or align with or against any political views. A committed Jew takes his own world views and refines them by the heat of the Fire of Torah. To think Torah is too narrow for an political view, is to value worldliness over Torah.WHERE IS JOSEPH?
Dear Redleg,
History does not look kindly on your statement. Humanity suffered it’s greatest losses of dignity when the ruling class feels that moral interactions between humans are becoming less feasible. It definitely is not dangerous thinking, because unless you are coming from the “event 201” conversation, we can sue later. Or I could take what is mine by force. This point preceded the Bill Of Rights.Dear Right,
If nothing can be done, we should not mention it. I realize that you must be working for them. They want to see who is ready to accept reality and oppose them. Why else bring it up?Dear Moshe,
The Supreme Court did say that it was corruption, and a bunch of other evil concepts. They could not understand why it was punishable by the courts. Getting elected has become a right, and one may lose that right and get voted out of office. Political crimes is a reason to not sit in jail.Dear Joseph,
To avoid the bittul zman of the coffee room! I think a lot of jewish non-fiction is fundamentalism. (Not necessarily in a bad way.)Dear Joseph,
I have been bombarded by Democrats crying for you to stop, they can not handle it. The remaining three Democrats who do not lie find your statement pointless.A time capsule! in 2020 we are all aware that holding back/not taking a get is about custody and/or finances.
Nineteen letters. Rav Hirsch
The Moreh is individual-centric. It loses it’s openness when it is brought into the classroom. It was heavily studied in Europe – but one on one. As far as I know, there is no great public teacher of the Moreh.
This is not a reason to draw arms. The tefillos are not directly connected to the day-night cycle. Therefore they can overlap and contradict.
Dear Ubiquitin,
I accidentally deleted my response. It is for the better. You write with much more clarity. My point is, since brain death will never be declared on a breathing patient, (Because if they can breath on their own that proves a functioning brain.) the question became inapplicable. (Except for those who think protecting lives only reply to the unborn and the dead.) I think i read somewhere, that the original question was reversed. That because of brain trauma one can be declared dead even though there is a possibility of the lungs still working on their own.Dear Just,
The big discussion in the poskim is if they all count to one minyan, not if they join to form a tzibbur. For me that represents the disconnect taking place here and in the real world. We want other Jews To be counted on our side (minyan), but we have no interest to join with so that their concerns should be our concerns (tzibbur).Dear Joseph,
The state of Montana has been spared. (So far.) That is about it. Other than that, you seem to be mentioning that the majority of Americans vote democrat. The tea party wrecked the republicans. Are you insinuating that the virus is politically biased?Dear Common,
I could not get you a pay stub, only a paypal email. I see you call this a government overreach. It was not Governor Murphy’s intention to interfere with any rights, he was trying to govern the crisis. I knew that governing by the government is highly unpopular these days. I did not know it was unconstitutional.Dear Right,
I was only discussing the irrefutable truths you mentioned in your first post. What should we do about the worlds billionaires coming together to justify shutdown and control over the general populace? How can we foil their evil designs?There can not be a poll. Nobody has an independent opinion of him. He took a bullet for the president, and now he is not useful for any investigations. One who thinks highly of the president will proclaim innocence and blame the investigators and all seekers of truth. (Yes, this really happens all the time now.) One who does not support the president knows that no one in the the administration ever spoke truthfully to the FBI.
Dear Doing,
The government is deciding what amount of traveling and congregating is allowed. Religion in America today has nothing to say about religion. That is why the youth today have all the sociall justice that is unjust and anti-social.Dear Common,
How about PayPal? I tried, but pay stub are not used anymore. You have not given an opinion about the ethics of bringing this case. I do not see a disagreement.Dear Milhouse,
Rav Forschiemer of Lakewood started the rodef reference. He was talking about gatherings ending upon social media.Dear Right,
So what do you propose to do about it, since the powers that be are obviously so much greater than people want to admit, let us just move on and forget it. What could we do anyways?Hmmmm……….. The OU is accepted almost everywhere……… MO Rabbis sold most of the chometz eaten today in the U. S. ………….. There is much less of a divide than a sliding scale…….. Keep up the debate! It is very important to determine who is more accepted, because Avraham Avinu and Moshe Rabbeinu were both outcasts.
Dear Daya,
Some practice their religion. Some are content with just having the right to practice.Dear Common,
One component of bringing a case is that it affects you in a unique way. I cannot sue against traffic laws because they apply to everyone. (This keeps the courts out of legislation and budgets.) The shutdown was applied (mostly) across the board. The government could admit that disallowing certaIin functions were in error, or argue that the interest of containing the virus is being applied equally to everyone. Personally, I think the Governors are being overloaded with getting medical supplies, and so on. We are better served the less they have to parse their directives to address personal freedoms. My freedoms could wait for better times.Dear Just,
I suspect you know most of my response. Well, here it is.
1) Agreed. But that is not a defense for a public question with people yelling from both sides.
2)If it would be a makom m’yuchid lt’fillah than it should not be used for a direct entrance to the house. Or as a place for the children to play. This is a matter of fact, not p’sak.
3) Tzibbur is a metziyus, not an halachik creation. I think this is the root of our disagreement.
4) I would not feel free. there will be backlash from those who supported it over Yom Tov. See number 7.
5) “what we should do” The question to ask is should we have gone into this topic, or put our mental resources elsewhere. There was a lot of confusion at the time. People did not know that you cannot join your porch minyan in quarantine.
6) Ikkur chasser min hasefer. But it sounds like we agree on this one.
7) My question is, why was minyanim so polarizing? Like we must find a way to have a minyan, was countered with we must shut down every minyan at all costs. Maybe in hindsight everyone could realize that it was not a big question. A better one would have been, how can we keep tabs on (old) people living alone at all costs.Dear Coffee,
The officers have discretion how to react. They are on the streets and usually know what they are dealing with. If your point is that they are blindly following the Governor I suggest you are blindly following the anti-Governor. The quote from the article is demanding that the Mayor should back the police for doing their job. You could explain the Mayor to me. You seem to have aproblem with the Governors doing theirs.Dear Right,
I do not know why you bother pointing this out. It is so obvious, that only the willfully ignorant could deny it. Nothing can be read without a hint as to the real origin of covid-19. Take this recent quote as an example.” The most obvious question everyone should be asking their government is; why are there no confirmed cases on Mars??” -Elon Musk, The Midnight Show May 6th 2020
Dear Just,
Meseches Horayos, first sugya.1) If one does not take the time to know the basic concepts, how can he get a clear answer? Once we take the responsibility to self educate seriously, we can ask for further guidance.
2) I have a designated room to daven & learn there. Consequently, I cannot sleep there now. We lose the makom m’yuchid l’tfillah whenever we daven outside.
3) Ruling that we are allowed to make such a minyan, is not even a hint that this is t’fillah b’tzibbur.
4) We are allowed to do it b’shas hadchak. In certain communities there is a literal d’chak every Shabbos.
5) My main question is from a Torah (not medical) perspective, did anyone ask if we should do this?
6) Torah and Ratzon are very different. Why are you equting them?
7) Were these minyanim formed for the will of Hashem, or the will of those who do not want to face this trying time head on? Most people who insisted on a minyan at all costs, would insist that it is better to daven alone than with an unconventional minyan.The doctor seems okay. The investigator seems straightforward. This journalist is full of bunk. He is the subject of the inquiry.
Dear common,
All right I checked off that little list for you. But in between forging my HS diploma and passing the bar, I noticed that we are all being affected by the shutdown that is a generalized grievance. Of course, there is Joseph’s argument. But the religious groups should be required to hold up their end of separation. That will never happen. And so America is destined to keep losing it’s religious leaders. And if he wins in court, we will be told it is a victory for religious freedoms.This thread is not funny.