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If someone comes into your shul without a yarmulke and you don’t mind, the same can go for not wearing a mask.
Dear Doing,
Lakewood has had several worrying cases in the last week or so.Dear Health,
The question of rodef begins when the drunkard is about to drive. When the cop was on Floyd’s back and gasping for breath, even had he been a full rodef before (He was not one bit a rodef to begin with.) he regained his status as a life worth protecting. Stopping a rodef, is not a license to kill.
PS The minchas chinuch mentioned above can be found at 337 4. Please take a look!
Dear One,
Only one Democrat in the senator (Robert Byrd WV) voted against the ’95 embassy act.And thirty two Democrats co sponsered it. (Including oneBiden, Joseph R., Jr. DE) And the resolution that commemorates the 50th anniversary of the reunification of Jerusalem was unanimous. Ever heard of Joe Lieberman?
Whatever reason one condones for not wearing a mask, would they uphold the same reasoning for not wearing a yarmulke?
Dear Proud,
Hashem is in charge. As long as you cannot think of an answer.
Dear Syag,
Someone with big pockets can influence a national election more efficiently than forging votes one mail carrier or post office at a time. If mail in voting would work from a technical perspective, is a different question. If Washington wanted, they can make it work.
Dear Participant,
I have read through your posts on this thread several times. If you can please link or post what Charlie wrote to initiate this topic.
It seems like we agree on most points. Trump is not a doctor. And he is not the destination for medical advice. People should have followed their doctor’s advice, and not the media’s opinions. [There is a problem here that people do not listen to the doctors anyway. As was shown by the measles outbreak.]
I am not sure how much we agree on assessing the pandemic in general. There are two issues. 1) A global health crises. A lot of patients. Overwhelmed hospitals. Lack of protective gear. People to sick to work. Cities being shutdown. Lack of effective medications. Efforts to find a vaccine. Typical stuff that we see every year or so. [On a much smaller scale.]
2) The other major issue is that this was a little known virus, and still is an unknown disease. Odd symptoms. Unclear diagnoses. Lack of known treatments. Nobody could say what the long term side effects are. On this part the Trump Administration did their part. They put forth a lot of funding for research. They eliminated less needed steps to hurry along potential vaccines. They did not interfere with the scientists.
However just dealing with the first part, requires a lot of cooperation. Smaller state governments, are not capable of dealing with all these issues at once. Some states banded together to be more efficient. Our obese Federal Government exists precisely for these major events that the states cannot handle. I think we agree that the states did most of the work. And Trump picked up some of the tab.
The federal response was full of contradictions. The CDC bungled testing. The problems seemed to indicate a lack of leadership. Instinctively, people point to the president. However, the president has more to worry about than just public health. Obama was not the front man on Ebola or H1n1. At some point, it seemed like Pence was supposed to be the front man. I do not know what happened there.
Dear Syag, that seems to support Quay. Though to be honest, Interjection’s point makes no sense to me.
Out of a study of millions of ballots, there were found 9 (nine!) fraudulent votes.
Out side of the mayor of Podunk race, what does one gain for changing a couple of votes?
A massive campaign to enable or prevent people from voting is much more of an advantage.
Dear Common,
Although many major shuls are near or at regular levels, many minyanim that cater to the elderly are still closed. As well as smaller shuls that never had a big crowd. Also, people are more comfortable with minyaim inside and outside the work place. Impromptu and scheduled vacation minyanim are at an all time high.
It is a good question how this plays out for Rosh Hashanah. Some places put a lot of work into squeezing out as many seats as possible. They may feel it is wiser to turn people away. [Or use it as an excuse to work less.] Also, yeshivos do not want to risk being shut down for the beginning of winter zman. Additionally, there will be much less of a pilgrimage to Umann this year. And less people are not heading to Eretz Yisrael until after succos.
Dear Proud,
“You think this is normal not to go to shul? Tefilla is the most important thing. If you do the right thing everything will be fine.”
1) Shul has nothing to do with Tefilla. And vice versa.
2) When is tefilla most important?
3) What is the right thing?
(Maybe we should follow the yearnings of the navi. Let’s head for the desert and wail the corpse-like state that is our nation.)
Dear Insert,
This virus is a communal concern. A shul is a communal concept. They go together. This pandemic has laid bare how much our sense of community has been weakened.Dear Nachson,
Some fearless people are being prudent.
Some fearful people are being reckless.Dear Syag,
One Yid personally told me not to wear a mask “because old people die anyway”.
Huh? What is the contradiction?
There is no reason to force the father, as circumcision could be done without him. The question is, can an execution be carried out without the witnesses?
Dear Proud,
There is a thread about defunding the police. There has not been a solid argument how it would make things worse. Biden did not endorse defund. I understand that people love Trump. I do not know why that has to translate into that Biden is a problem. He has been heavily involved in american politics for four decades.Dear Health,
Curious question. Is there something to your random capitalization of words? Just wondering if I should be paying close attention.While one is obligated to make sure a drunk does net get behind the wheel, once he is removed from the vehicle there is no way to consider him a rodef. At the point that he was resisting arrest, he was not even endangering anyone. [Rodef is typically one who is committed to murder. A public menace is depends on how much a direct act is taking place.]
Dear Common,
What did you notice on your travels about covid guidelines?Dear Proud,
Most of Trump’s ’16 platform was about dismantling big government. (ACA SS TPT NATO) To say he accomplished so much, is to say he did not fulfill his agenda. Would you mind listing some accomplishments?Dear One,
Negating Israel right to exist, has been demonstrated to be a cover for denying Jews the right of self preservation. Hostility usually means something else. Either way, Obama never denied Israel’s right to exist. Recall his ‘Israel has the right to defend itself’ statement.
i have been all over the northeast. I have not seen any fights over masks. I noticed it being enforced in busy places (Rest stops, Convenience stores, Shopping malls,) especially around the Washington-Boston corridor area.
Dear Health,
There are a number of circumstances that would nullify the din of rodef. Even if all the conditions were fulfilled, a soon as they got him out of the car he would no longer be a threat. When Mr. Chauvin showed up, Mr. Floyd was no more of a rodef then you or me.Dear Common,
You do not receive any invitations?I do not understand. How can a narrative be unquestionable? If I am to reframe something, than it is no longer unobjectionable facts?
Dear Syag,
I do not think you understood. 1) The overall data is not put together well. 2) Whatever cases we take off the total amount,it is still a major health crises. 3) There are a lot more people in the hospital than normal. That is a major concern, regardless if it coronavirus or something else.
I’m not sure why changing hospital deaths from coronavirus to, say, typhus is any better.
Here is why ‘the hospitals inflating the numbers’ doesn’t change much.
1. There is no fabricated patients. All the covid deaths or cases in the hospital, refer to actual patients. The question is what was their medical condition. Nobody is questioning their existence.
That already concedes that hospitals that reported large amounts of cases were overwhelmed, or close to that. It does not matter if they were there for infection, anxiety, or mischief. Either way, the hospital would have to deal with it.
2. Hospitals receive the extra funding whenever a coronavirus case is closed. Which would include the patient dying. Or leaving the hospital. It makes no difference how the patient leaves the hospital. Even if a patient fully recovers and leaves on his own feet, the hospital is eligible for the extra 20% reimbursement. [I assume this would be the same for patients that are transferred to a different hospital. It is also a closed case for the first hospital.]
There only seems to be an incentive to inflate total cases, not deaths. But they go together. (If someone had TDS and they listed him as coronavirus, if TDS would turn fatal then that would be a mislabeled coronavirus fatality.)
3. Hospitals only receive money for what they provide. (I do not know if this is only treatment, or is the bedding and so on included.) If the patient is deemed covid positive, they get the same money even for non covid related treatments. (Such as a broken foot.)
Either way, hospitals are dealing with an extraordinary amount of serious respiratory infections. Whether they are 95% or 70& percent coronavirus related, it is the same crisis.
4. The real data problem, is that there is no central way to manage the data. If someone tests positive twenty five times over three months before they finally test negative, how many cases is that counted as? There seems to be very little personal information taken at the time of the test.
While this leads to inflated numbers at the point of data collection, it points to a significant rate of infection. In other countries, they know almost everything about every individual case. Because they have tens of cases, not hundreds or thousands. The U. S. only has such confusion, because of it’s high caseload. Dropping a few thousand cases, does not change anything. We are nowhere near effective containment.
Ultimately, the impact of the pandemic could end up being measured as excess deaths in a two, five, and ten year span.
Dear Syag,
It is complicated.
“I speak first hand..”
What does that mean?
a. You falsified patients yourself.
b. You saw someone falsifying.
c. They told you that they did it.PS Just kidding! I recall you mentioning this before. I understand what you meant.
I misunderstood the OP. While it is dumb to blame Trump for the pandemic, it is even dumber to minimize the magnitude of what we faced/are facing. Developed nations are not used to dealing with health crises. Over the last two decades, epidemic diseases has toppled governments, started wars, killed crops, and generally devastated some countries. If this is not a call for leadership, than why have leaders?
Dear Syag,
Was Mr. Biden’s cognition failing when he was forty? (Talk about being blinded.)
“Again, judging only by Trump’s own statements/history, not her input”
Fixed that for you.
I’m curious what you meant in the shady character line.
If someone is scared of Joe Biden……… Is there a more docile politician? The President calls him Sleepy Joe. Absolutely hair raising!
Harris has been a real problem for the Republicans o the senate floor. Typical self destructive Democrat politics to take her out of the senate. She is not a threat in the real world. See her campaign. The idea that she is far left, is radical in of itself.
If we trust our system, we are not afraid of our leaders. The only fear is ruining the system.
It is interesting to me, that both parties are trying to paint Biden-Harris as more left than they really are.
Dear Health,
I still maintain that the term Gezel, generally only refers to taking possession by force. Duping someone out of their money, is only termed gezel by association. The clerk likely handed him the cigarettes with the intention of Floyd keeping them forever. [I am aware of the other issurim involved. The byword is not gezel.]
Dear Health,
I asked, “at what point did the cop judge the case?”
You responded, “when he arrived at the scene & was told why the Perp was arrested.”
Nobody at the scene was a witness. They did not even hear from the clerk, and probably had no idea who he was. Floyd was never given a chance to defend himself. (Verbally or physically.) Nor did the cop ever ponder the evidence. Nobody even checked that they had the right man. Or if the bill was really counterfeit.
Dear Health,
“By mortals, a witness is by definition a bystander.
Similarly, a judge would have to hold office.”A ben noach is a mortal.
Based on what is happening on the political threads, maybe this could help Trump. If he comes out with a sound plan for handling the pandemic, his supporters will fall right in line with it. It could be all the recommendations since March. [Plus some hindsight.] Just he would say it in his signature single-syllable style. Imagine the relief the country would have, if we sense there is actually a real plan.
Dear Quay,
Saying that there was, is, or will continue to be, a pandemic is upsetting to some posters. I have no idea why, but they insist that those who analyze it openly are terrified of coronavirus or lying.
“Brain washed.”
Hmmmmmmm.
What about Trump makes him the best president?
Dear Akuperma,
“Worldwide, more people are dying for the panic and overreaction…”
Maybe this is true throughout history.
Nuclear explosions. Hiroshima. Chernobyl. Kyshtym. Windscale. Fukishima.
Civil wars. Colombia. Peru. Serbia. Sudan. Somalia.Afghanistan. Iraq. Syria. Libya. Yemen.
Murderous dictators. Stalin. Zedong. Hitler.Pasha. Tojo. Kai-shek. Gowon. Mariam. Pol Pot. Kim il Sung. Leopold II.
All epidemic diseases. Typhus. Measles. Ebola. Malaria. Smallpox. Nipah. HIV. TB. All three forms of Plague.
Major natural disasters. Earthquakes: Haiti. Messina. Chengdu. Ancash. Tangshan. Ashgabat. Tropical cyclones: Bangladesh. Bhola. Nargis. Nina. Andhra Pradesh. All five major heatwaves this century. The Vargas Tragedy and the 2004 Indian Ocean Tsunami.
Major wars. WW I & II. Balkan. Finland. Indochina. Madagascar. Korean. Algerian. Vietnam. Afghanistan. Kashmir.
Mental illness. Chronic pain. Poverty. Human trafficking.
You can leave my nobel prizes in a neat stack on the home page.
Dear One,
“Hospitals inflated the numbers to get funding.”
How does this work? Are they getting money for treatment that is not being provided? Are they creating fictitious patients?
Dear One,
Hostility toward Israel, is not hostile to Jews. Big difference.
And, it was not from day one. The only major issue of contention was approving new settlements. Obama brought Israel into negotiations twice. The US never forced a concession from Israel to keep negotiations going. [This is in line with every president since Nixon, applying less pressure on Israel, then his predecessor. Trump is in line with this. In fact it may be impossible for the next president to pressure Israel less.] This was mostly during the second term. In his first term, Obama gave a major pro Israel speech at the UN. (“America has Israel’s back.”)
The redefinition of marriage, mostly happened under Bush’s watch. It seemed like the trend was turning back a bit in state referendums. Then it gained a bit of momentum before it reached the supreme court. Not sure why this is a presidential issue. It never involved the executive branch.
On BLM, I think the reverse is more of a criticism. Obama did little by way of repairing race relations in this country. He did see to it, that his initiatives should be followed through. Also, he is a terrible spokesperson for the guy on the street. He never took a firm position on racism. Bush did a much better job of bringing the country together. Where do you think he empowered BLM? [In other words, what kind of power does BLM have outside of the support of the masses? And, how much is that really worth?]
Dear Frum,
“Very large and broad”or, “nebulous”? I think the whole discussion is fictitious. Nobody ever demonstrated a hint of a parameter for what can be called jewish music. The only point ever made, is that these things change with time. I consider just about every song out there, to be (potentially) tomorrow’s jewish music.Why don’t you take it up with her?
Dear Two,
The cost is covered by the amount of business the US economy generates, due to cheaper services and greater infrastructure.
Dear Som,
Memorandum of the CMS of March 13.
Dear One,
Ask him. I”m not sure what this means to you. Those in government that are able to govern during crises, did. The others did not. Nobody ever advocated for Trump that he is a great leader in face of a crises. The pandemic should not be held against him. It is not in his skill set. Cuomo opted to clear out the hospitals, instead of death panels. You think it would have been wiser for him to do nothing?!? Or, do you follow every whim theory and think that he wanted more people to die for political reasons?
Dear Reb Eliezer,
Yes, no clear reason to stop them.
Dear One,
The camp david accord is very beneficial to Israel. The Shah was still in power when Carter was president.
Anyhow, you missed the point by a mile. Oslo was only possible because of the decade before it. But, overall it may have been to Israel’s benefit that Carter did not win a second term.
Dear Sam,
“and affect the yiddishkeit and kedusha of klal yisrael”
Not one bit true.
The Cuomo nursing home libel should end. As I outlined on a different thread, he followed what was then a federal guideline. So did many other states. Some states still had this guideline in place after NY started requiring each patient to have negative test results before going to private care facilities. Some states nursing homes were harder hit than NY’s. Studies conducted indicate that the nursing homes share a large portion of the blame.
There is nothing to indicate that NY would be better off without all the intervention on the state level. If Cuomo would have just kept wishing it away, the state would still be seeing a thousand deaths a day.
The President is claiming that he did a great job on the pandemic. You are saying that he did not have to; or could not have done anything. See the problem?