Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Dear Health,
Did he have the police officer in a chokehold?
My mistake, Obama was eleven and a half when Biden entered the Senate. (I was off by a decade in my head, and was thinking of the first time Biden ran for office.)
NYC has been undergoing a population switch for twenty five years. The pandemic has slowed incoming residents, but not outgoing ones, (May have hastened this part.)
About Yidden leaving the city, this is old news. There are threads on this site from years ago, lamenting the drive to move out.
Dear Ready,
China had about forty thousand confirmed cases, before the Zelenko protocol was introduced. This number is regarded to mean hospitalizations. (Asymptomatic spread was mostly discovered by South Korea.) Over 90% of these patients survived. That means thrty six thousand plus patients were ill and recovered without HCQ. And if I recall correctly, the first large study of HCQ was done in China. And they found it was no better than standard care.
Millions of patients have survived Coronavirus worldwide, without HCQ. The mere fact that people survived it with HCQ, could only prove that HCQ is not fatal for Coronavirus patients.
Dear Huju,
Trump has remade the Republican party. Period. Full stop. End of story. Even the Republicans die hards are not supporting him. Some have openly endorsed Biden.
PS Do not take this to mean Trump cannot win. In a fair election, anything is possible.
The Columbia Record Fan Club versus the Original Members of The Shaw Checkers Club. No doubt about it. The country would be completely razed before these two make peace.
October surprise: Trump divorces Melania and marries Hillary.
Dear Health,
Okay, we agree Trump is not the man for the job. Now, to Portland.
A cornerstone of our democracy is due process. There are laws and rights to protect those who have committed crimes. And the State is legally bound to give reason for all it’s judicial activity. What is the surveillance being carried out in major cities on American citizens? Who is the spokesperson for the federal agents in Portland and Seattle? What are Border and Customs agents doing there? And who’s decision was all this?
Dear The Little,
It is silly to assume that someone who has been active in politics for fifty years, would be pushed around by unproven radicals. Add to this, that both parties attempted to recruit him when he was in his twenties. Also, he was completely loyal to President Obama’s platform, (Even though he personally disagreed.) who was not even born when Biden entered the senate. He will demand the same loyalty out of those around him. Additionally, Biden stumped for Bush on the senate floor, even though he did not agree with him completely.
The irony of accusing Biden of pushing around foreign oligarchs and governments for a few thousand dollars, but being unable to withstand the pressure of a few politicians who have little national appeal, is flat out ridiculous.
Biden pulled short of defunding the police. He was careful to never cross that line. He is not a major speaker, and anything can come out of his mouth at anytime, but he has mastered the art of policy. When the Conservatives and Conservatism peaked in the Nineties, nobody had a problem with Joe Biden.
Dear Health,
I think Portland is an important topic, and I would like to discuss it at length. First let’s clear this debate out of the way. I do not think Portland is because of Trump. I said I doubt that he can solve these issues. You repeated that it is not his fault. You never said that he can fix it. It seems like we agree that it is not his fault. Can we move on?
[My point is that Trump seems unable or unwilling to end the civil unrest taking place now. And there is no reason to guess that he will handle it well in the future. Being that the factors in place will continue to come to a reckoning over race, class, and culture for the near future, the next president should be one that can reckon with civil unrest. The current president has not demonstrated that he is able to accomplish this mission.]
Here is an article that came out yesterday. Notice all the contradictions.
Jacob Blake — whose police shooting in Kenosha, Wis. touched off a renewed, nationwide wave of anti-cop sentiment — was armed with a knife and had engaged in a violent struggle with officers moments before he was shot, according to shocking new law enforcement allegations.
A knife-wielding Blake had put one of his arresting officers in a headlock and shrugged off two of their attempts to stun him into submission, an attorney for the union that reps Kenosha police, told The Associated Press.
The lawyer’s claim that Blake was holding a knife before they shot him seven times in the back appears to contradict the account of state investigators, who had said the knife was recovered inside Blake’s vehicle.
Brendan Matthews, the attorney for the Kenosha Professional Police Association, issued a statement Friday giving the police’s own version of events as they face criticism from across the country.
Matthews said Blake was holding a knife that officers initially didn’t notice during the altercation on Sunday.
“The officers first saw him holding the knife while they were on the passenger side of the vehicle,” he said.
But Wisconsin Attorney General Josh Kaul said on Wednesday that a knife was recovered from the driver’s side floorboard of Blake’s car, that no other weapons were found at the scene and that Blake had told the officers he had the knife.
Kaul has declined to comment on when the knife was recovered in the car.
Matthews claimed when the officers spotted the knife, they made multiple requests to Blake to drop it and that he was uncooperative.
That’s allegedly when the officers used a Taser on Blake in a failed attempt to incapacitate him, Matthews said.
The witness who recorded the shooting, 22-year-old Raysean White, has said he hadn’t seen a knife in Blake’s hand, but that he heard the officers yell to him, “Drop the knife! Drop the knife!” before they shot Blake in front of his young children.
In case this was not contradictory to you, here are two point I took out of White talking to the media last week – the day after the shooting. 1) After stepping away and coming back, White said the scene drastically changed. Police were wrestling with Blake.
“One of them had him in a headlock and was punching him in his ribs, the other had him in a headlock on the other side of him and was pulling his arm,” White told CNN.
“After they punched him in his rib, the female officer Tased him and Jacob kind of leaned on the car and they proceeded to wrestle him toward the back of the car and he went to the other side of the car. When they were on the other side of the car on the ground, I had to pick up my camera and start recording.” 2) He did not say anything about a knife, even though I spotted the knife on the video. By Wednesday, there were multiple outlets reporting that White said he heard the cops say drop the knife. But I could not trace it back to him.I am not saying I believe my sleuthing, or CNN. I am just saying we do not know now, and we may never know. But in real time, the police are supposed to know. I guess we could sum up that while it is not always clear how bad policing is these days, it is evident that journalism is not up to snuff.
Dear Syag,
The main part of the story, is not verifiable. If it is three minutes, it is nearly impossible to assume that the cops are completely innocent. [at this point, I have serious doubts about the timeline being true.] If there was more time, then it makes more sense to assume that they did everything right. Until, they were left with arresting him over (at least) a legality, and the suspect resisted arrest, which left the officers with little choice. It would be similar to the Rayshard Brooks case, in that it underlines that multiple nice cops are no match for one black man determined not to go to jail.
There is simply no coherent story of what went on between the dispatch and the video. This thread from the OP on, has been about the police and their take. That Blake threw caution to the wind, was obvious from the getgo and never disputed.
Dear Health,
If the cops never noticed the knife, they probably did not say “drop the knife”. Where did you get these specifics from? I will just assume you were there. I think you misheard. What the officer actually said, was “drop the wife”.
Dear Proud,
I sure would not have kept all three officers on one guy heading to his (Or his girlfriend’s?) car, and leaving my back open to anybody on the street. {Again, if the three minute timeline is true…..} The cops had no way of knowing if they were being lured into an ambush.
I am pro life even when it does not involve abortion. No reason for cops to screw up and be dead.
I am wondering about the non orthodox communities. Many of their services are live streamed. But would those that only show for the High Holy Days join in? This could mean a major disconnect at the extreme edge of Judaism.
Dear One,
According to organizations that track voting records, Biden is a tick closer to the median vote, than center left. Which puts him dead on the spots as a moderate. Of course, he is more to the left than he was thirty years ago. As the entire political scheme has shifted a lot to the left. (My opinion is that this is the fallout of the neocons undercutting the true conservatives.) Most Republican senators today, are more left than Biden was when he started in the senate in the early seventies(!). If four decades is not enough of a track record to prove a moderate, than there likely never was a moderate. (Or maybe there is a slight chance that your own politics are polarized.)
Harris has not settled into a specific political platform. It is a long topic, but she has made herself comfortable with leftist positions, without comitting to said positions.
Dear Gadol,
This was the tenth-strongest U.S. hurricane landfall by windspeed on record.
Storm surges are responsible for the bigger disasters.
We have had some really major storms this decade. Many different areas were devastated by hurricanes. Houston is the only (As far as I recall.) area to be hit multiple times.
Harvey does not compare to Katrina.
I think more people are evacuating now than ever before. There has been an added stress on adequate shelter space. And security for vacated towns is much improved.
The question is if the parents wanted to be congratulated. Otherwise, the shul is forcing the issue a bit. This could be used in a very frum community as a way of outing the whole family. The context is the debate here. Charlie was there. We are at the mercy of his take.
Dear Syag,
Some reports have it that the caller was reporting about her boyfriend. Others just say she called about someone. If she told the dispatch ‘boyfriend’ and the police were told ‘someone’ that is a crucial difference.
Nowhere does it say that the police ID’d Mr. Blake. The only newsbit (If we are to believe it.) is that he was involved (Settling or fighting?) in a dispute between two women. Did the police just assume that they were called to arrest him? Nothing is clear to me.
Dear Health,
The more i look into it, it seems like the police were unaware that he had a knife. Maybe it means he told that to the investigators in the hospital.
Dear Syag,
All the reports do not give much info on the why of the matter. For example: Officers arrived at the scene and attempted to arrest 29-year-old Blake, at one point using a Taser in an attempt to stop him, but that attempt was unsuccessful. Mr. Blake walked around his vehicle, opened the driver’s side door, and leaned forward. While holding onto Mr. Blake’s shirt, Officer Rusten Sheskey fired his service weapon 7 times. Officer Sheskey fired the weapon into Mr. Blake’s back. No other officer fired their weapon.
It does not say why they decided to arrest him. Trespassing? Failure to obey? Public disturbance? Open warrant? Domestic abuse? Three minutes is very quick to arrive at the scene and attempt an arrest. Could be the three minutes is not true. The story is very much unknown.
I do not think the unrest in Kenosha is due to this one incident. It seems like the community does not trust the police.
Dear Health,
All the reports are that he told officers he was carrying a knife. It is noticeable (to me) in the video. I am confused why it is not reported as he had a knife. Unless it means he threatened them with the knife. It is unclear.
It does not seem like the police had enough time to do much evaluation here.
Was the knife the issue? (See above.) How do you know they told him to drop the knife? Why is holding a knife such a big deal? I have a knife right now. Don’t shoot.
Dear Health,
It has calmed a great deal since the OSP started guarding the courthouse. The feds are still in the city. This little chat was about Trump helping solve the issue. The point that it is not his fault, concedes that he is not the man for the job.
American English is just the London dialetic of Medieval Jutish plus the great vowel shift with an intermingling of immigrant tongues of the last four hundred years.
Dear Health,
Old news that Trump is the ultimate wimp. Governors all over the country have managed to talk away most of the protests.
There was two nights of (almost) calm in early July. The rioting in Portland today, is in response to the Feds being there. Maybe Trump could be charged with inciting a riot.
Dear Crown,
Your ideas are not relevant to this case. You could be referring to Rayshard Brooks. Blake was a civilian interacting with other civilians. Police were called. And shot Blake three minutes later. If this much is true, than either the cops got flustered. Or he did (and said) something really stupid. This is not a resisting-arrest-no-choice matter.
The following is pure speculation as an attempt to make OCH’s point relevant to this case.
Though it could be that the Brooks incident is having an influence on police across the land. They do not want to be on youtube as bumbling fools. So they move quickly toward an arrest.
Dear Jersey,
What is simple? How do you know what he said?
(Failure to obey, is a misdemeanor.)
Dear Health,
It is unclear why or if Blake was ‘an (immediate) problem’. Was he the subject of the call? And did the police know who he was?
Dear Syag,
There is not much available. Whoever is in charge here, is doing an excellent job holding back information. We could end up with very different conclusions from separate investigations. I am not (seriously) speculating. I am just responding to other posters takes. It will take a while to figure out what when on here. The video does look bad. And if the timeline is true, it is likely that the police never really had control here.
Here are the props that I an aware of on this conversation.
Knife – A knife was found on the floor of the car. He told police he had a knife. He seems to be holding an open pocket knife in his hand on the way to the car. A bit confusing.
Car – The shooting occurred in a white sedan. It has been widely reported that his kids are inside. The big question to me is, was that his car and was the kids part of the original incident.
Gun – A lot of blabble about a possible gun. But I have not found anything real. (Even from MikeTheCop.)
Keys – The caller mentioned that someone took her car keys and was not giving them back. It is never mentioned again. Maybe, maybe, (I doubt it.) that was an odd looking key ring in his hands.
Taser – There are reports that police used a taser on him, and it did not work.
Pepsi – Some idiot on a wonderful site made it up to be funny.
For what it is worth, we may as well be talking about a story that never happened. It has not been clarified if Blake was the subject of the call. Or if the police knew who anybody was a the time of the shooting. I am just pointing out, that the police did not prove useful in this domestic incident. Obviously, Blake was not prudent enough. It does not make him wrong. It made him get shot.
All the reporting I saw, has very little detail. Most of the story is about the reactions to the shooting. (His condition. His father and lawyers statements.) What do you have that I am missing.
Dear Hakatan,
Your historical presentation is very cryptic. I expanded it for you.
Unfortunately, = It has enabled the survival of half of the worlds Yidden.
about a century ago, = Your problem is the Third Aliyah?
the Zionists = Were opposed to the Third Aliyah. But The Alter transported his yeshiva to Chevron at this time. And Rav Isser Zalman as well.
invaded = Legally purchased the Valley of Yizrael. Which was a desert, and shortly became the most fertile land in the country.
large parts of E”Y = a few hundred farm like settlements.
and = Weizmann and The Labor Party saw their main goal as not instigating any conflict.
declared = Independence after the rulers of the land left.
a State = Was conferred on them by the gentile nations.
there = Never endeavored to go anywhere else.
while falsely = thinking that Religious Judaism had met it’s end in the Holocaust. This reflected the popular sentiment of the times.
claiming = A Biblical Right To the land.
to represent = The Religious parties that were all united at the onset of the state.
the Jewish “nation”. = Which was also somewhat united. The Conservative Movement was still largely viewed as within the fold. Reform Congregations had kept to themselves. The cration of the state, would bring their interests back toward Jewish interests, and away from (purely) secular ideas. And every group was still picking up pieces from what had been shattered in Europe.
Dear Health,
I think your position on race relations is caught in a bind. You said that there was no fighting when Trump entered office. Whereas Obama wanted to start a race war. Good and bad intentions aside, that implicates that Obama managed to quell racial tensions as there was no fighting when Trump entered office. To walk that one back, would leave you stuck with the point that Trump is not calming the masses today.
Dear Huju,
Canada would be more democratic than the US no matter who is president. 😢😢
Israel? That’s pushing it.
The strongest democracies are in the far east. Taiwan, New Zealand, Australia.
There has been very little rioting until this week. Two exceptions. Seattle, which is a struggle between local politicians. And Portland, which was under control until the Feds moved in. It is really weird how everyone is in denial about this. You would think that Americans across the country could unite for basic freedoms.
Dear Health,
A lot of things could have saved lives. Maybe next time the country will do better. What you are referring to is a bureaucratic issue. And has nothing do to with Dr. Fauci et al. (I think it is handled by the FDA.)
Dear Doing,
What kind of knife? I carry a utility knife all the time.
If they thought he was going to get a gun from the car, they messed up by letting him get that far.
And, why weren’t they afraid of being shot from behind?
The easiest way to justify the cops is, if he told them he is going to the car to kill the kids.
Dear Doing,
It is too conflicting to guess what went on here. The point (Not my point. I think GH mentioned it.) is, that the kids were not props. But going by only the video, they may as well have been mannequins.
If they would have paid more attention (Maybe they did.) they could have had more restraint (Maybe that was not an option). The police where acting like he is about to blow up town hall. He is walking toward a car that has his kids in it.Dear Pekak,
Obama offered the same. And he got nowhere, until the Democrats committed an anti debate coup in Congress. As opposed to Reagan and Clinton who ran with their agendas and forced the opposition to keep up or miss out. Or, Bush 43, who found Democrats in Congress (Such as one Joseph R. Biden, a Senator from Delaware.) to stump for his policies on the floor of Congress.
You people worship the sea or the wind?
Dear Syag,
I asked if you considered it. It is a funny thought. just checking how serious this topic is to you.
I somewhat disagree. Police do not seem equipped to deal with domestic disputes.
The woman in the video seemed bothered by the outcome.
Dear Old,
These two topics are not directly linked. We can have civilian misconduct, alongside police misconduct.
Dear Proud,
These vaccines are owned by private companies or foreign governments. Dr. Fauci works for the American Government.
Dr. Fauci works for the NIH. The FDA has the final say on approving vaccines.
Dear Two,
To me, this is not about judgement. I leave that to the courts. This is about policing. It could be justified on the basis that they were trying to do their jobs in good faith. That is proving my point. Policing in this country is not set up for successful outcomes. Things could be changed. But I am skeptical if now is the right time for that.
Dear Old,
“FACT – This fellow was shot according to every reasonable standard of U.S. law and known public policy.”
Maybe it is reasonable to you that people should be shot according to standards and policies. To me it is all about the context. And it is the job of the police to control the context. If they are not equipped to do that, they should not be there.
Dear Health,
Any bystander that wanted to get involved could have killed theses cops in an instant. Like, if the fellow who videoed it would have had a gun.
Dear Health,
My point was that since we are not expecting a miracle drug, we could do more trials on more drugs. There is enough to go on for those who want to use HCQ + zinc. Since it is not the solution for everything, we may as well look into other drugs too. We are not expecting to find out more with further research on HCQ + zinc.
Dear Interjection,
“But, using the argument that he had three kids in the car, threatened in front of them that he was going to get his gun and then went to get his gun, shows that he doesn’t necessarily deserve the benefit of the doubt and that the cop shouldn’t assume that he wouldn’t shoot in front of his kids.”
Police have to maintain control of the situation. Period. That is their job. The kids in the back seat can be used as a key to understand the situation.
It is unclear what happened here. Maybe the Police never got a handle on what was going on. Maybe Blake flew off the handle. The video looks pathetic. I do not know how many facts will ever be known about this case.
Dear Health,
Thanks for your reply! I have been interested in your take on this treatment for months.
To be very clear, I have no opinion on how effective it may be.
I got from you two points.
It can save lives, but is not known how many.
And, it has to be taken within a few days.My analysis is, that is enough of a perspective to make it a closed topic. (In the real medical world.) Being that it has not shown the promise of being a ‘miracle drug’, there should not be a special emphasis on trying to see just how much this treatment can do. Let it prove it’s worth as it get’s used more. Special emphasis should be reserved for treatments that have promise, but have not yet been researched. (There are only so many patients at a given time in a given place to study. Why give them one treatment that does not hold much promise for them?)
Even if it would turn out better than any drug available, (I think that would be a forty percent success rate. maybe higher.) it is still not enough to soften the overall impact of the pandemic. Except for the most optimistic guesses at herd immunity. Additionally, a treatment that is intended within four days will not help much as most patients are not being tracked from the very beginning. Furthermore, all treatments do not help toward slowing the spread. Which is the crucial factor in reopening the economy.
As it stands now, if a doctor feels comfortable prescribing this treatment, he can do so. Dr. Fauci is not saying that it should not be prescribed. It would require the presiding physician’s intuition as to whether it should be given, and how it should be given. There is no way to regulate intuition. And for sure there is no reason to give it randomly (Such as after four days.) instead of medications that have fared well in more controlled studies.
In conclusion, perhaps you could have saved thousands with HCQ + zinc. But most doctors do not seem to be as confident. And, you seem to be indicating that one has to know how to administer it. [Within four days. With zinc. Any specifics on the dosing?] There is no reason to believe that this would change the overall crisis.
Dear Health,
Aware of what? There are three officers in the video, and they are all staring at Blake as if he is in the circus. And Blake is totally ignoring them. He is not their biggest possible threat. If any bystander would have pulled out a gun, there could have been three dead cops. I personally knew people who could have jumped all three officers at once in this situation. Maybe they had cover down the street. And maybe this is a case of suicide by cop.