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Depends on the added flavor.
Either way, I prefer it cold.
Why did you feel the need to add another tense topic the coffee room?
Reuters, AP, FOX, CNN, CBS, and ABC, were all over it from the beginning. In today’s climate, breaking windows is not prime time news. The media covers everything. Every blot is reported. Actual journaling to explain what is going on, that is becoming extinct.
At the very least, have some idea that you are not going out with a dangerous or deeply misguided person. Though traditional references do not help much with that.
After that, it is possible to skip checking out entirely, or to look into things at anytime. There is no such thing as looking into someone too much. Just most prospective matches, ask the wrong things. Think what really matters, That I would not find out from meeting them.
I’m not really hearing why it has to be one way or the other.
Dear Rbzs,
The part of the Chasam Sofer you posted, does not say that. I am interested in the rest, and hope to take a look at it today. Thanks.
I still very much doubt your point about tragedy occuring on the basis of averting a larger destruction. If you please source that one a bit better, that would be great!
To me, calling the departed a korbon, focuses on their last moments, instead of their life. When the public is also mourning, it could overtake the whole aftermath, and the mourners sort of lose connection with their loved ones’ life story. Magnifying the end, could minimize everything that came before it. Same feeling I have when I go to a shiva house, and hear a medical roundtable on some disease. Or a discussion of every instance of a demise similar to what had occurred in this family. I realize that there is a place for that also, but it seems off when it dominates the whole time. Also, Shiva houses, can get numb when they are forced to entertain for hours straight. I have seen great people go to comfort by sitting quietly until discussion becomes uncomfortable, to great effect. Okay, enough lecturing.
What really bothers me with calling a tragedy a korbon, is that is not the idea of korbonos. Should we all be granted the opportunity to bring a Todah, would we be thinking of these terrible events? Of course not! This sense of korbon, seems a bit pagan to me. As in Michah 6.
It’s been at least two years since I crossed paths with anyone from there. My assessment was typical boys at least average, maybe well above that to a solid level of learning.
This is in the context of compared to other Lakewood yeshivos.
Unsolicited information. I got the sense that they are used to starting seder on time. And they very much listen to him
Disclaimer! I’m reporting based off one or two boys, That may have left long ago.
Dear Always,
That is my point. It is weird that young people look for guidance for issues that are natural for adults, but are on their own when it comes to reaching adulthood. Seems backward, contradictory, and plain old stupid to me. I’m aware of the reasons that you indicated. Still, it leaves us with odd dilemmas, [Such as which outsider should give personal direction, on a matter which is at the discretion of the practitioner.] that should not really come to be in the first place.
Dear Avi,
But If this is guaranteeing that the hospitalized will make a full recovery, I’m all in.
Dear Reb Eliezer,
In that vein- his passing would not be an atonement for his generation. It would take away one of their few shining examples.
Dear Syag,
Agreed. One does not have to be a great tzaddik, to invoke great benefit for the Jewish People. (Both ideas have their place.)
I’m bothered by the term korbonos. Rashi is comparing the effect of Miriam’s death to the effect of parah adumah. She is and was still Miriam.
Another point. How the public comes to terms with tragedy, is very different from those who experienced it personally.
There is a larger message here. In today’s world, our youth are being told that they should get married younger/are not ready to get married. Shouldn’t they have other things to be advised about? Isn’t this something that young adults do for themselves?
Just pointing out, this audit in Arizona is not about who won the 2020 elections. As per Arizona State Law, it is unlawful to conduct a recount at this point. From a legal standpoint, there is nothing new to see.
Rashi is saying that the passing of tzaddikim atones for the people. As in every time. I have no idea why you would walk that back.
We have the free time to put things in perspective. But the families (as well as the survivors) may be overloaded between their internal sense of loss and the public portrayal of the larger tragedy. Comfort is found in accepting what happened. Adding on possibilities that a tragic, early death has cosmic implications, avoids what the life of the departed was like – and even more – could have been. It moves the focus of the personal greatness of each individual life to the overall placid and non descript merits-versus-sins of the masses.
Conflations aside, your source is not saying what you want it to pay. The tzaddik atones for the people on his/her passing. Much like they do when they are alive. In such an instance we would say the departed was a tzaddik, not a korbon.
It does not refer to the untimely passing of the young. Or the bewildering tragedy that just occurred. Using these term’s comes across as flippant, and does speak to the sub conscious realities.
-throughout TaNach and Chazal
Any classical sources? It sounds odd. And to my little knowledge, there are classical sources to imply almost the reverse. But more specific, who gets to decide which incidents were specific to avoiding greater tragedy? Also, it means that someone who never met the departed is confidently telling the mourners, “this was a very lofty individual, you just totally did not realize until this very public tragedy”. Which just adds to the sense of having missed out on appreciating the shortened life of their son/Ibrother/husband. And it takes away some more privacy, in what is already a lot of exposure for a young mourning family.
It would still stand that they may have never been welcomed. It was not necessary. They knew what to do.
Maybe have a shadachan put this question before prospective dates.
You may end up fulfilling both opinions.
This new audit in Arizona cannot disprove fraud. It is an attempt count how many ballots can not be traced back to the voter. Which in a secret election is supposed to be almost all of them. I have no idea why it matters anyway.
I wonder how personal the heading “someone else” was meant to be.
After rereading the articles, it seems like this thread is based on a misunderstanding. It could be that the family was not welcomed into either community. They integrated on their own. The were likely only able to do so with the training that missionaries receive about avoiding topics. If these communities are so welcoming to newly observant outsiders, I definitely will give them a look before I settle down.
It was funny.
Dear Avi,
It was in every post. But the moderator took it out. Such innuendo is reserved for the Zohar. Everywhere else, it must be censored.
Or: so many posts, so many different topics.
I would say that for most of us, economics was only brought in to give validity to other topics.
Dear Rbzs,
I am unaware of any gedolim as being the cause of this thread. Please do not fill me in. The discussion is about how it feels to receive the term. And, by extension, it’s use.
Dear Syag,
Thanks, and likewise.
Dear Reb Eliezer,
See how the Zohar is wrongly used in it’s application to everyday life. I am mystified that when one uses the gemara or midrash in such a way, he is rightly chastised. But when is comes to the Zohar, people assume that this silliness is some deep truth that only the author’s of the Zohar could have alluded to.
Amen. Nice thought.
Dear Asag,
The government has a strong say in our kids education, even when they are home schooled. It has been that way for eighty years.
Dear Twisted, I think you may be on the wrong thread.
You will not find any statistics on this issue.
Dear Aliyah,
I think feeling the extent of the tragedy, is not realizing that it is unnatural. Personally, I would say that I have thought about the tragedy without having any ‘wake up call’.
I hear you. But that is the way it is. Those who were caught in the crush, were not the cause of it. The two ideas are not contradictions. Even if disaster was just a matter of time, it was not inevitable that these people would be the ones to bear The tragedy. Brothers going from dancing together to being crushed together, is tragic regardless of any premonition’s we may/should have had.
The term korbonos bothers me. Always did.
This is exceptionally horrifying, in that there were so many people that were so powerless. Usually crowds are a source of comfort. As in somebody would be able to help.
?
Dear Huju,
My first post (11) is Torah – nothing to do with economics. Did you take issue with what I wrote?
Dear Always,
That is a good debate. But ‘issued an issur’ is not really correct. The R”Y was responding to the question of why the yeshivos ignore lag BaOmer. Although a better question would be, why should they pay any attention to it.
The Ramban mentions both possibilities. I’ll look it up and post it.
The current approach (As in what is wrong with the last 30 years of tax cuts.) is that more wealth should require more taxable assets not less. Just reversing the trend would go a long way toyard stable economics in the face of mounting debt. But the real matter is budget control. And cutting out military waste, is more of a priority then any tax plan.
Dear Square,
Aryeh Kaplan writes that his peers agreed to learn everything by heart. He says that it was very difficult, but very quickly became easier to do. It got to the point that they were able to memorize whatever they were learning in the same day.
When I was in yeshiva, I noticed that whenever someone learned the same topic consecutively, (For example, he switched yeshivos and was learning again what he learned the zman Bedford..) They basically knew it verbatim from any point that they picked up the discussion.
In sum, learning by heart is more about mental preparedness, than it is time consuming. If your motivated, than it is worth trying to fulfill it.
Dear Health,
I think your point is somewhat valid. The roots of 2020 probably go back to 2000 and 2004. Are we in agreement that future elections will be ran under assumptions of fraud litigation?
Dear Truth,
That is Not what the Yavetz says regarding the Zohar. He insists that Rab Shimon is the central author of the Zohar. The point is that certain practical halacha in the Zohar, is only practiced by the Sefardim. Because those passages were added in Spain.
Am I the only one to think that we have reached the end of free and fair elections? Elections from now on, will depend upon the qualify perception of how it was run. Nobody had a clue of the inner workings of the election process prior to 2020. Yet, many people make strong claims about the possibility/impossibility of fraud being perpetuated. Even if the major races this year do not claim fraud, the candidates will have to be ready to go to court to battle frivolous clams. This will affect the money on hand to run the actual campaigns. Even if both parties take the high road and agree not to convert the election no matter what – like they do in Africa – a fringe candidate can some along and upend everything with claims of fraud and vast conspiracy. Although the elections will have winners – maybe even unanimous winners, the election itself will not be free and fair. It will be costly too prepare for potential claims of fraud. And will be unfairly tilted to the candidates that embrace election turmoil.
Dear Emes,
Just wondering if the top ten percent have enough money to cover the national debt.
Dear Toi,
You make a rational argument. But it is not true. All the time people make statements about this one and that one being Moshiach. Just they quickly walk it back, because of the black cloud hanging over Chabad. If the Rebbe would have an obvious successor, I’ll Jewish groups would sound the same. Also, Chabad NEVER vehemently condoms ANYTHING. It is not their way. That just about ends your argument.
How many people have their own political party? Mike Bloomberg? Gary Johnson? Vermin Supreme? The question seems more about if a political party has you. Well, you erred from a Torah perspective in giving such prominence to shifting policies and moral standards that will never be applied. The affinity for a party is of itself turning against the Torah. See the first verse in Tehillem.
Dear Avi,
Levels of emunah, cannot be inferred from blog posts. And, the Zohar has no relationship to anyone’s beliefs. If one is still ascertaining a required level of belief, the entire rational behind all the basic Jewish texts becomes moot.
Dear Reb Eliezer,
The plain words of the Zohar do not contain ‘secrets’ anymore than the Talmud does.
Dear Ujm,
1. The criteria for Zohar are the same as any other midrash. Theological Jewish Meditation has restrictions.
2. Artscroll is far from any gold standard. They excellent at coherence and beautiful layouts. Much Torah has been studied because of their work. Though they have done little to advance accuracy or serious analysis.
Dear Unique,
Masuk is the cream of the crop for reading the Zohar in line with the more widespread ideas of the Arizal. The Sulam is intended to read the Lurianic system into the Zohar. But both mix in many, many, outside ideas. And contribute to the common misunderstandings of the Zohar. Additionally, both translations are not wordy. One word will be used over and over, where the original uses many different terms. And, neither one understood Aramaic as a living tongue.Well yeah, there is a ‘significant international problem.’ But you did not point at anything. I read the N.Y.T. article. It assumes that the reader knows the difference between a criminal, racist segregation, and an ethnic, and security driven one. The paper is mostly reporting that Israel’s critics are prepared to use the slur, while it was uncomfortable – even for them, twenty years ago. It is true that many readers will miss this, but the Times likes to view it’s readership as much more literate than the average paper. Except for when they insert some shoddy journalism so they can control ‘open discourse’.
I once came by a mention of lag baOmer (From about three hundred or so years ago.) as no tachanun and the boys go out of town to the fields. Nothing else. Interesting.