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Dear Avira,
As you have been saying on the other topic, the secular world is completely different. Leaving aside stupid partisan culture jihad, this is not a win for any group in this country.
So it is not an issur. And is subject to preferences.
Just one point to refute your entire post. Why did the Avnei Nezer not mention it?
That is how the reformers read the Rambam. You’ve been on their course for this whole post.
Dear Common,
There are several Rebbes that maintained their chassidus after they died.
Dear Mods,
A couple of things.
1. We appreciate all of your efforts. It’s nice to come back and see that you kept the lights on for me.
2. Can this page be pinned? It should not be on the second page of decaffeinated.
3. I sent some posts and they were posted after later posts. Overs have not posted yet, but I get a duplicate message if I rewrite it from memory. Are the missing posts:
A. Being held for moderation.
B. Only coming into your queue hours later.
C. Not reaching you at all.
D. Both. Some awaiting moderation. Some lost in the system.Thanks again!
And you might post in an unbiased fashion.
I know all the chillukim.
But that is not the point.
These issues have nothing to do with an apprenticeship.
Additionally, go look at some of the descriptions of the Arizal’s meditations. Angels, ancestors, and the pious of the past. I’m not saying I think they are authentic, but there is precedent. It’s odd that you don’t just saw there are old debates that no-one is lenient about anymore.
Also, go to Meron in two weeks and ask them what is going on.
“It’s avodah zara. Period.”
If you say so.
Regardless of what they are actually thinking.
And all the precedent by other Rebbes that you choose to ignore.
If I had a copy of the sichos, why would I not keep it? It’s not really worse than most of the reading material in the yeshiva world.
You wrote that as if they sat together and argued over the exact way to believe in some stodgy dogma. Is that the way it is in your head? Sounds Catholic. Kol haposel…..
They were not discussing anything as trivial as we are. The only one who actually had discussions with other Jews about what they believed, (from what is known) was Rav Saadya Goan. (Maybe add the Ibn Ezra instead.) Those discussions were more about the supremacy of the chachamim than anything else.
But that is off topic. What interested those luminaries was the truth. Not the ltechnicalities of the commoner’s personal beliefs.
What did you want explained? #2082247 I’m not sure. Maybe I missed the point of that post.
Dear Reb Eliezer,
Because pregnancy is hard. Especially when there is no father around. And everyone spends their money on booze.
Same to me. But it’s the same words if it happens because the legislators decide.
Syag, you made me laugh today.
Dear Avram,
Exactly! It is not that your relatives want to believe in sainted humans as atzmus haguf, or they want to speculate endlessly on what is above, or even that they struggle with the terms used to describe God in TaNaCH. It is simply that belief does not mean much to them. Whether that belief is dead-center, borderline, or out-of-bounds. Instead of fighting about what is proper belief like a bunch of simpletons, we would do better to discuss the benefits of an unshakable conviction in the ultimate divine powers. However they may be properly defined.
It is not what you believe. It is how much weight you put on your beliefs.
By that thinking, a non-Jew teaching Math in a yeshiva would be assur.
Having a non-Jew coach a sports league where the kids show up for a few hours and go home, is not what the Shulchan Aruch is discussing. Not even close.
Dear Coffee,
What would you like explained?
In the nineties the evalangicals started some good programs to notice mothers to maintain their pregnancies. And keep the children, or even have them be adopted. All this is in serious jeopardy. Already now, a lot of these initiatives have been stopped because they are not on the right side of the culture wars.
The individual’s discussion of abortion, is more of a religious issue than a matter of State. But the clergy in America became a bunch of worthless political stooges long ago……
Abortion laws that decide who lives and who dies, are far more abhorrent than allowing mothers choices.
Dear Haleivi,
Combing abortion clinics is a worse moral.
*air conditioned seat.
Manchin is always for sale. For the right price, he can be insane too.
Yiddishkeit is an orthoproxy. Especially in a yeshiva. Where do your ideas come from?
Dear Avira,
You mamash have everything backwards. I’m so sad- I can’t even reply now.
Dear Coffee,
I thought I explained it well. Above #2081673 Yserbius #2076490 as well.
Dear Reb Eliezer,
There can be a cult that venerates an idea or a cause. Some Jews use cult practices in Judaism.
And you completely misread the news.
Why is that a good thing? You seem to be stretching the point.
Dance instructor.
Astronomical tour guide.
Online forum moderator.
😎
Most minim throughout history were solitary individuals. How could there be any cult aspect to that?
Emunah is one [the first!] Mitzva. Take it easy. One can be a strong Jew with a weak emunah.
Video game tester.
Promote your online campaign on this page.
Dear Avira,
Please follow. You posted “I believe halachah decides what is harmful…” and later “I wouldn’t want my kids in a spiritually, emotionally, or physically, unsafe atmosphere”.
These two quotes do not add up. The first line is weird in light of the second. I took issue with the first line. Maybe I’m being too literal.
I’m not bending myself at all. This is how I see it. And I have met some really far out chabad missionaries. Maybe I’m wrong. But they do not seem to be specific in their beliefs.
Funny about Rav Belsky. My views on chabad have been shaped by him personally. Besides, I wasn’t only explaining his psak. I was making my point clear.
Emunah as in assumed beliefs that are leveraged by cults against self awareness, have little place in Judaism. Some people think Judaism is supposed to work like a cult. They are completely wrong.
I wonder if this whole topic is relevant to the present or the past. Both then and now.
From the 1500s until today, advocating in the halls of kings and parliaments on behalf of the Jews to practice freely almost always included advocacy on behalf of all religions. You should be complaining to the God Of History. But obviously you consider that a different faith.
On the main issue: the themes that you say are commonplace.
Is that a problem to you? If they just mean the theme, than it should not be a big deal. Even though it sounds weird to us.
Dear Avirah,
You misunderstand me again! Many in yeshiva understand the gemara! Probably more than everywhere else combined. But because of this, they give little thought to how the gemara came to be. And they give it much weight in some places. And to little in others.
I really think that fighting over proper belief is simple minded. Do you disagree?
I do not consider myself blessed with clarity or pure reason. I was blessed with being born into the yeshiva world in a real sense that is not common to even by the most committed kolleliet. And I have had access to many great talmedei chachamim. Including pre-war Yidden. My nomadic existence has given me the abilities to test which thought experiments only works within the yeshiva. And which ones are more universal.
It should not be hard to describe arrogance. Don’t worry about how I’ll take it.
Dear Avira,
No. I’m not Chabad. Though I have been around a few. I guess you’ll be shocked to know the truth.
‘The Rebbe runs the world’ is a kabbalistic statement. ‘Whatever runs the world’ has to be a metaphor of some sort. Just to be clear, I’m not automatically defending the speaker.
I have nothing in common with the Rational Judaism folk. They lie when it is rational to do so. And they do not care about the truth. They care about ‘proving a point’.
Only chariedim stay around on this site after repeated criticism.
Dear Ready,
If you are really being truthful, why would you care so much about the meaning of the word cult or religion? Why would I need to understand anything? In the event that I’m wrong, I would just be uncovering the truth. Why do you write ‘that my conception of the truth is off’?
You make it seen like you have cult-like beliefs. That your views become more true when more people agree with you. It does not work that way. Truth is toe only thing that makes itself be. You can’t have artificial truths. While we can really believe in artificial beliefs.
The Torah is not even based on certain beliefs.It can all be learned from within itself. There is nothing in Judaism that requires us to advance a certain belief, against better evidence. [Though of course in actuality we are constantly being called upon to stand up for the truth of Torah over temporal thought.]
Dear Avira,
Yeah I thought so. That halachah line was weird. This conversation is not for me.
Yes. And that is not purely because of matters of belief. It also could be indicative of really simplistic thinking. And such people are not reliable, no matter what their views are.
Dear Always,
The Shtetl was producing agnostic-to-Torah Jews three hundred years before the cantonists. Which was before The Enlightenment as well.
Besides for a true/false question, there is also a ‘he has no idea what he is saying’ option. Which negates the whole thread. If they do not know the difference, than they are saying the same thing as the simpletons in every Jewish community. They are not expected to know better.