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There were several episodes over the years. Given what could have happened, it could be said that it went well.
Dear Sensible,
None of those three is from just now. Two months, three years, and twenty seven years ago.
It’s not just fighting. It’s chillul Shabbos as well.
Dear Ujm,
Understanding the Torah is critical to the fulfilment of the mitzvah of limud hatorah. My question is why is your hypothetical student, spending his whole day on what he does not understand? Better he learn something that he understands. Or else he can just learn Arizal or the Ragotchaver all day. Sitting all day on what you do not understand is also bittul torah.
Rewarded does not go by minutes or results. I do not totally disagree with your point. But it does not prove yours.
I don’t know what’s better for the yeshiva. However, the more the yeshiva prioritizes the one who follows the yeshiva guidance, over the one who is really growing in Torah- the more of a failure the yeshiva becomes. If a yeshiva can’t produce boys that are using their strengths for Torah, than why does it exist?
Dear Always,
I’m insinuating that seminary does not prepare girls for what a learning boy is really like. Maybe the crisis is contrived by the seminaries to get the girls to panic and marry despite the confusion.
Dear Are,
Maybe Shadchanim have less boys than girls because they exclude certain types of boys. Anything is possible. A real tally would give a real look at the reality. We would be informed of the real issue, and that could lead to real solutions.
He can call himself anything. The question is what the Torah thinks of him.
Dear Always,
Correction above: A real learner must know whole masechtos.
Ten hours a day for barely understanding half an amud is not a real learner. Using the word learning to explain such an activity would be a misnomer. I do not know what to call such a person. They may be a better yeshiva student, but are they better talmid chacham than someone who learns TaNaCH all day? What kind of mitzvah is it to learn what is not being understood?
Dear Always,
Logical reasoning, is not a prerequisite for lamdus. Reading comprehension, and not wishing away complications, are.
But my argument is about something else. Even if we would establish the bar for what can be called knowing sugyos, one it a fraudulent lamdan if they do know mesechtos. Besides for finishing whole Seforim.
Dear Yabia,
Some Safardim suffer the misconception that their Rabbanim can not compete with the super lamdus of the Litvishe Rosh Yeshivos. That is not at all true. The clarity of precise lamdus exhibited by the Sefardishe Gedolim of the last fifty years, is of the highest quality. You just do not find everyday Sephardim trying to explain their way through things that they do not know.
Dear Avira,
Go ask them when they are holding in Yevamos or Eruvin. Too many long term learners will just stammer.
“Anytime …. Anyone”
Your opinion.
ChaZal had a different opinion. Hashem is available for the community. An individual has to seek Him, during The Ten Days.
Dear Yungerman,
Why are you so sure that we are worthy of having our prayers accepted? And a good argument can be made that prayer through the appropriate messenger is more powerful.
A simple point. Boys that go off, have an easier time getting things back together. So it does not help here. Also, going off has a higher juvenile death rate. So there is a redundancy.
But this is all a futile exercise. Until someone takes an actual tally, this is all heresy. I maintain that due to the rigors of getting into a seminary, there is only one girl interested in a learning boy for every dozen such boys. The only solution would be for yeshiva guys to start marrying pre-seminary girls. It would also lead to better marriages.
“Requires techeiles”
Total mix-up. The discussion is about if the white tzitzis on linen garments is wool or linen.
“The right type”
What does this mean, kalla illan?
“Tying pattern”
From this same Meor and Ramban, it is clear that holes etc. are not the issue.
In my recollection, the Meor says not on Shabbos because of carrying. And the Ramban argues than always, because of 4 corners without tzitzis.
Dear Ujm,
Source?
Jewish boys in WWII ran to enlist after Pearl Harbor.
Dear Midwesterner,
If you would compare to what the basic level of a full time learner fifty years ago, you would not so easily refer to all of them as a real Bais Medrash.
Tikun is better than shmoozing.
Bad idea. Keep the Bais Medrash for those who seek Torah. Let the glory seekers stay in Meron.
The glory of Torah is when we treat those than study it’s Wisdom with respect. Putting them on a live feed, or in the news, is not glory. It’s insulting.
Of course! It’s the most difficult to attain and the easiest to lose. In reality, what percentage of boys can be assumed to learned? We would need to give so much more input to our schools, yeshivos, and kollelim, to attain the expected output.
I understand that there is only one fire this year.
True on not, the Boyaner lit.
I also met one older person. Who insisted that the Rebbe is still breathing, walking, and talking. But he had a completely secular, entertainer, pegged as mashiach.
I never met any that claim anything like elohist. Unless basic kabbalistic expressions have to be meant literally. So sure, ban all the kabbalah again. It was all probably avodah zara all along anyway, right?
I’ve sat with groups of Chabad Bachurim. None of them will admit that they are mishachist openly. Only in private discussion, would some argue a messianic angle.
Dear Avira,
You condone your actions with you intent. At the same time you condemn Chabad because of what they think. If you have the right to claim righteousness in light of your thoughts, than you simultaneously relinquish the right to speak for what others are actually thinking.
Here is how I see our disagreement about yechi.
Suppose we would C”V see a minyan insert yechi or something similar into the middle of kedusha or kaddish. You would think that they are putting yechi on a celestial level. And I would think that they just do not know the concepts of kedusha.
As I’m typing this, I realize that this could be a fundamental difference in how we view this whole topic. [As well as some others.] Your thinking is that yechi is an addition. Like a new concept. And I see it as they are missing something and use yechi to fill the void.
Okay. Not that radical.
Thanks, Gefilte!
Dear Coffee,
The host posted that it will be held online.
Your heilige minhag was never widespread among the people. And may have been nothing more than a status symbol.
Census taker.
Remember that thread?
PBA keynote speaker.
Dear Ujm,
Your overestimating how much it was practiced in antiquity. Even then it was considered a bad idea.
Dear Ts,
I have no problem with letting Chabad be Chabad. Most of those here have no idea what Chabad is all about. A lot of it’s ideals go back two hundred fifty years! There is almost no Jewish group that can compete with that record.
I’ll get to the intent later. My point is that from what I’ve seen it is more like wearing a hat than wearing a cross. It’s a slogan. Not a declaration. It does not belong in davening at all.
We need to update the question.
Is murder a bore shoin?
Dear Ujm,
You obviously just skimmed through her posts. If you would have taken the time to read them, you would understand.
“Have always practiced”
Name me an individual [Excepting a king, the nasi, etc.] that had two wives concurrently, before Rabbienu Gershom. I can’t think of one in the Mishna or Gemara.
The wine would have to be mevushal….
Depending when the hundred years starts. And how much cooling off, is a lot.
You keep posting the intent. I’m comparing the way it is ritualized to na-nach.
Lol!
But, you really have no idea about the mesorah of the non orthodox. They stop observing long before they stopped believing. It’s hard to differentiate the fringe Orthodox and the not based on beliefs. But when it comes to observance there usually is a big drop off.
I’m trying to tell you, that the yeshiva outlook of yesteryear is still not popular today. Even though the yeshiva community has grown substantially, the purity of it’s ideas is still not widespread. The majority of the yeshiva literate, get more of their outlook from the frum media, than from a bona fide Rosh Yeshiva.
Most of the topics on these pages that have a yeshivish versus from outlook to them, have nothing in common with what a Rosh Yeshiva would actually say.
“Why then do you care what I believe about Chabad?”
From my post last night. ‘I would like to know why you think I’m wrong’.
You should lay off trying to assess my yeshivisha hashkafos. I’m not intimidated by that the majority of the groups think. The yeshiva has always been a tiny minority. It still is. Even if it does not look that way today.
I’ve always seen yechi as a cultural thing. Same as na-nach. Do you get the comparison?
I’m not at all talking about what they think. I’m talking about how they say whatever they are saying.
No, Avira. I’m not making any argument about what Chabad is actually doing. Most of the discussion has been around my chiddush that it does not matter what they believe. Just last night, it got into a tangent that they are not messing around with tradition like the Orthodox Left.
Do you want to get into the core issues? Do you really care to learn about Chabad?
Dear Gefilte,
Can you please tell us exactly how it is done? When in the service. How much fervor. If all participate. Etc.
P. S. This thread has not gotten into the issues people have with Chabad. I made a point about Chabad being traditional, even with the prevalence of these issues.
It’s not scary. It’s what goes on Tzfas. Nobody answers for what their own does in these kinds of places.
If anybody wants to talk Chabad, they would be wise to check their own closets first. I have a friend, a grandson of a Rosh Yeshiva who is not serious about himself. When asked he’ll just say he’s Chabad or Na-nach. And he randomly says yechi and what not. It’s an easy way to deflect unwanted critics. I’m not saying that he makes Chabad look worse than it is. I’m pointing out, that you’ll find all types in all groups. Just everyone ignores their own.
Dear Daas,
So long as the Tanya is the baseline for what is allowed then yes, the general idea has been given an explanation. But there is nothing stopping anyone from drawing their own erroneous conclusions.
The yeshivaliet of a hundred years ago would be shocked at how many battei medrash there are today that are open 24/7. With hundreds of sefarim and full amenities.
They would then be doubly shocked at how often nobody is learning in them.