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Maybe he’s older than you.
But I think he means the Mir in Israel.
Dear Avira,
You did not contradict my post.
As in ‘to the right of MO’ is not ‘right wing MO’.
Halachah is not chumros.
Where did kolleliet get into this?
“It’s arrogant, chutzpah, and is breaching a boundary of mutual respect Klal Yisrael has for one another.”
You are not part of Klal Yisrael???
Dear Always,
Something that depends on the praxis of the surrounding society is not one bit objective. The rest of your post is not clear. Or untrue.
Dear Avira,
Your post is baffling. How is limud Torah not Limud HaTorah? Your trying to construct a system where one study is limud HaTorah and other study is not. Being that all the topics under discussion are using the same classical (Tanach, Mishna, Gemara, Etc.) Torah sources, how could it be different just because it’s officially being studied during Mussar Seder? To quote Rabbi Yochanon, Limud enables Activity.
It should be the same across the board. The level of study is only relevant to the level of understanding. Be it Mikrah, Mishna, Chassidus, the Kabbalah, or Birchas Shmuel. You would be better off learning Nefesh Hachaim correctly off-line, instead off using as a cover for on-line debate.
Or from China/Japan.
On Yehurah.
“Usually it’s something excessive that nobody around you does.”
Please use an objective standard. It will then be useful even for Jews who follow the Torah regardless of their social pressures.
In a standard Chabad yeshiva, they learn the standard rishonim, S”A, and maharsha type acharonim. More teshuvos and less of the standard acharonim. Not much lomdos besides the Brisker sefarim.
The study of Chassidus replaces Mussar, Machashava, and Chumash sefarim. It’s a much cleaner transition than any other yeshiva. Because it’s the same authors for all these topics.
Missionary Bachurim is a 770 phenomenon. The Chabad yeshivos outside the tri-state area, are much more level headed. I’ve hung around a few. They learn shas and poskim on a high level. If not for the cultural barrier, they could easily excell in BMG. Which isn’t saying much.
I’m not arguing anything. I’m explaining a point about your’s Kuvult’s posts. Claiming as a different poster did, that ‘the two state solution is the final solution’ does not help convince anyone against the two state solution. It makes sense to those that are pro a unified Israel. But it does not explain anything to an outsider.
Nobody is voting for Trump. Today is not election day.
Dear Smerel,
Your making a good argument. But there are even better arguments. Kuvult’s point is that your argument does not get anywhere with the people you are arguing with. It gives them more of a counter argument.
Dear Get,
So it boils down to that shuls that are available for davening all day are predominantly Chassidish. These minyanim are all types. Not getting your cat together in the morning, is a non-denominational problem.
Okay. Let me educate you. Almost any group of Chassidim are not machmir more than any group to the right of MO. You will always find individual outliers, but as a group they are not into chumros. The individuals that you identify as Chassidim outside of their locale, are much more likely to be more strict in their observant than the mainstream.
Although, they have some areas where they are generally more stringent eruvin is definitely not one of them.
Dear Common,
Yeah, how about it?
For now forget the exact words Kuvult used. This is about the point. [It’s somewhat true that Kuvult’s post was a reaction to the words of Square’s post. Still Kuvult was making a worthy point.]
The point is, that one can be totally pro-Israel and still acknowledge the truth. And the idea that Israel might be in a weak position to defend itself, is not really true. Israel has a real right to it’s land beyond just the right to defend itself. Just saw that Israel has full right to all it’s land.
When you say that Israel has a right to defend itself, a proponent of a two-state solution can respond that Israel can defend itself enough from any invasion. It comes across as making the attacker into the victim. [I’m not saying anyone is trying to make Israel into the victim. But a pro-Palestinian advocate would take it that way.]
Dear Get,
It’s not just Chassidim.
Dear Smerel,
You completely proved Kuvult’s point.
The Roshei Yeshiva would be horrified by that suggestion.
Dear Mentsch,
That’s not how chassidus started. It’s later hmm history.
That said, I agree with your point.
The environment of the Chayai Adam was an outlier.
Dear Avirah,
You just don’t understand Chabad.
Dear Pekak,
That is not the request. Maybe you can provide a sustainable answer.
I was told by one group that their siddur that was written by their Rebbe almost two hundred years ago, does not have tachanun by Mincha. I thought that was silly, because some older siddurim only print it once and your supposed to turn back. Anyways, I found a siddur from that group that had it printed by Mincha. One chassid told me he has a copy of the original siddur. Nobody else cared. After a few months, he finally lent it to me. It had tachanun by Mincha. And mentioned very few days that tachanun is omitted. They still did not care. And, when asked, they still claim that it is not in the Rebbe’s siddur.
What really bothers me, is their lack of confidence to just saw this is how we do it now.
Dear Jackk,
The tzaddikim that are greater than Shimon, (assuming there are greater ones) have greater issues to deal with. You can’t back up a somewhat minor issue with the fact that people let it pass.
Back in the Old Country, every locale had their own tachanun calendar. Many Chassidim took on many different calendars. I’ve seen this evolve even today, with my own eyes. It really needs a justification. But it won’t happen.
That’s true. But a majority of us will not be able to differentiate between the hashgochos that insist on kosher ambience. We go by the appearance of the retailer more than the halachic know how of the supervision. Case in point: there is at least one moveable hashgocha that is more aware of the ambience than the happenings inside the establishments they supervise.
Dear Baltimore,
This is not a hundred years old minhag.
“I did not research this beyond the visuals.”
Can I take this as a confession that you have very little insight into the actual groups among the ultra-orthodox?
“But it got me thinking…”
Keep it up! At the least keep thinking until you have your own perspective of these topics. Than you can post your actual opinion, instead of a question to us so you can harp on a phrase or two.
Dear Catch,
The same market realities might dictate that the kosher ambience is more valuable in the current market than kosher food.
It’s dishonest to pick chumros and avoid a Rav’s kulos; following minority opinions all the time, for every question, shows a complete lack of yiras shomayim, and a desire to simply do as one pleases, without regard to what the ratzon Hashem is.
a more simple explanation is that living in EY is not a mitzva kiyumes. It’s a continuous state. Which should be written as living in EY.
If 1 Rav holds that something is assur, and 5 Rabbonim hold that it is muttar, it is not just assur.
“Chassidim, typically, would not use such an eiruv..”
I’m not aware of any Chassidim not using an eiruv because of a chumra.
You can ask anybody any question you have. And you can be accordingly stringent or lenient. Just if you keep asking different people, your going to get conflicting views which will lessen your clarity.
Bump!
Dear Avira,
Is it possible that sometimes people have experiences or information that you are not aware of?
Dear Yabia,
I leave the imperative issues for face to face conversation. Topics like speaking Hebrew. I would never imagine anybody bringing up a topic about being meikil on the CR.
Dear Reb Eliezer,
I wasn’t attempting to clarify the halacha at all. The fact is that the way Meseches Eiruvin is learnt in the yeshivos is at odds with the Brooklyn Eiruv. A Yeshiva guy who uses the eiruv is being looked as having rejected what everyone is learning. It is not analogous to reaching across the aisle for a kulah in say, bishul akum.
Dear Meir,
Leadership and fatalist thinking ido not go hand in hand. Did you actually get such a response? That’s not what they say to me.
I think the ‘rav shopping’ debate is a more honest conversation when it is about chumros not kulos.
You (and anyone) can go kulah shopping as much as you want, but going to all different rabbonim may make you confused in your knowledge of Torah . Nothing is worse than that.
Dear Avira,
I’m not sure who you count and you don’t, but if we would count up all dedicated rabbanim of the sixties and seventies, there was not even a clear majority consensus on eruvin in cities. Including the Brooklyn Eruv. It’s a messy topic.
Dear Avira,
Rav Moshe was not a yachid on cholov stam. It was accepted before he came to the USA. His long teshuvos on the topic make it clear that it is not a chiddush in the sugya at all.
The case is way out of point. It’s not a kulah from the yeshiva perspective. It’s about learning Eruvin. It would be similar to asking why is it frowned upon when someone goes weeks with opening a sefer. Or wearing tefillin.
To your point, who cares? People frown about all kinds of chumros and kulos. It’s not a big deal. And it’s personal.
In a real litvish/yeshivish setting we all just sit and learn.
Biden, Harris, and almost all Democrats and Republicans care a lot less about these garbage issues than the posters on this thread.
If your a public persona you can’t say that you could not care less. But most people really don’t care at all. It took months of publicity for people to realize what was going on in their own towns and cities. And even today the counter-protests are negligible.
This isn’t a winnable topic. It just plays with peoples emotion in a never-ending culture battle. Don’t be fooled by it.
Dear Ubiquitin,
Your post is clear and makes a lot of sense. Now let me double check. To my understanding, you are reading the letter as a principled statement. They are not really conveying any of the ideas behind their position. Thank you!
I think I agree, but people shouldn’t be called crazy for how they feel.
Dear Akuperma,
The founding ideas of Black Hebrew Israelites came about after emancipation. It doesn’t have any aspects of the African Tribal Religions. It is more of an imitation of popular white preaching of the late nineteenth century. And it is doubtful if the founders of these ideas had any significant interactions with Jews. Maybe they thought that Israelites were like a mythical utopian people.