n0mesorah

Dear Avira,

I don’t know if that would work. You don’t make strong balei teshuvah through hashkafa battles. At most you have weak extremists. (This is specific to those born not frum. I don’t know why, but it is this way.)

I don’t know anything about Feminism. It doesn’t make any sense to me. I’m just posting about Bais Yaakov educations.

Dear Sam,

So what was that about communists and democrats again? It seems hypocritical to me.

Dear Avira,

We witness his words. We do not witness his thoughts.

Dear Avira,

Chabad girls are taught those themes as much as any other Bais Yaakov. In Chabad there is more emphasis on being a home maker than most of the east coast. If a family is sent on shliichus, the mother has to be quite the homemaker!

Dear Lost,

Completely untrue.

Sincerity will always be the same.

We want more people to vaccinate. What else?

Dear Sam,

Since when has Hashem been out of office?

DearNevile,

Your misunderstanding my take on this.

“it’s only OK when he does it,” or “it’s never OK and there has never been any real heter?”

I am so much saying the second statement, that I don’t agree with the issue here. If a (major qualified) posek would put out a teshuva permitting going into a church and would use this as precedent, that posek would be creating the precedent. Because this is not a matter of deciding halacha. This is a matter of the function of the Office of the Chief Rabbinate. And while the office is not above halachah, it is an entirely different question. Anybody who goes into a church and says “well Rav Mirvis did” is a fraud.

I understand that we disagree here. But I’m really confused why you are so vehment about my position.

I know your screenname. But I’m not familiar with your opinions.

Dear Avira,

Are you saying that proving ‘pig is not trief’ is megalah panim et alia? I think that would be correct. But I think that if we are wrong on this, that would not be a problem. It’s a mistake with no implications beyond what we would actually be wrong about. Meaning, someone would post ‘proofs’ that pig is kosher, and you and I would say that he is a megaleh et cetra, and Eliyahu would say he is not [Shrug. It’s a hypothetical anyways. Even today the mods won’t let it.] I think at least we would not be megaleh panim batorah, because nobody is going to eat pig or not based on how we label this wrongheaded poster. Since we weren’t advising anyone to do an issur, we were nothing other than mistaken. and we get rewarded both for stopping people from eating pig. And Limud HaTorah, eve though we erred. That’s my take. Would you say that we would be in the category of megaleh panim for wrongly saying that the poster is in said category?

PS Which of the above statements would be heresy in the reverse? Not just wrong. Actual heresy.

Dear Avira,

Do I need to make a birchas hatorah before any of these statements.

Anti semitism is a result of our religious lifestyle.

No creature ever went fully extinct.

The aggados are binding on all Jews at all times.

All Zionists are kofrim.

Arayos are a problem because of how certain communities approach tznius.

Feminisms are against the Torah.

I know I’m not making sense.

Maybe you meant the reverse.

Divrei Torah is all over hashkafa etc.

Dear Avira,

I thought about that when I wrote my last post.

Do you really think my fictitious example is megaleh ponim or a bizoyin?

It more silly than anything else.

But let’s say I really believed it.

It’s not a bizoyon or megaleh ponim. I’m simply wrong.

So I’ll be corrected.

It’s a problem when I know it’s wrong and try to lie about it.

But being stupid, isn’t by itself a sin.

Dear Hakatan,

But we debated Zionism on multiple threads and some news items.

Other than a bunch of quotes, you have no grasp of the actual problems witth Zionism. Yet, you are willing to reconstruct large parts of the Torah to peddle your ideology. In my books, that was Zionism’s original sin.

I went with some other bochurim to a hangout that had all kinds of troubles. The Rav who sent us gave each of us different instructions. The only rule that was the same for all of us was no white shirt.

Dear Frum,

That’s not the question here. It is not a matter of permitted or prohibited.

The question is what should the Office of the Chief Rabbi do about the invitation to the Royal Coronation that is held in a church?

If your reaction is a so-what-shrug, than you really do not understand the matter at all.

It’s like a bible critic that only knows the King James Version.

Dear Hakatan,

1) I have discussed Zionism with you multiple times. You can’t back up your position even a little. For you it comes down to this. If a zionist rabbi does it, then he is wrong because he can not be trusted to have a justification. But if an anti-zionist rabbi does it, than we give him all benefit of the doubt. An interesting wrinkle in hilchos loshon hora. Silly opinions give legitimacy to slander.

To further make the point. If the Ponevezh RY and the Gerrer Rebbe would do it, than it would be assur for OE or YU to think they did an issur because to them they are great talmidei chachamim who deserve the benefit of the doubt no matter how outrageous the circumstances appear to be. But for Satmar and Brisk, they can judge the matter at face value because they are more anti-zionist than Ponevezh and Ger.

2) Going into a church is because of one of two very basic reasons. A child could understand them. There are dozens of precedents from all different countries. I’m not going to discuss them, because I don’t want to imply that there is a permissiveness about this issue.

Your theory of splitting halachah based on ideology, does not have precedent. Oh wait! It happened before. It’s called The Great Schism. Which took place in ………………….a church.

This is still ridiculous.

Since we just don’t go into a church regardless of the reasons, the rabbis in question should absolutely not publish a responsa.

A Royal Coronation is a rare event and only a few Jews will ever be invited to attend one. Why write a precedent that any clergy could freely dispense to their congregants?

You really have to decide what you want out of the issue before you blah-blah. Even if it’s not your kind of rabbi.

1) So you fall back on your uncompromising position that you failed to coherently defend numerous times.

2) And you seem to be unaware of the two simple statements of why it is forbidden to enter a church.

Dear Always,

What Shul and what park?

😂

Dear Ujm,

Before my time. But I know of several MO Flatbush families that tell their out of town relatives there is no eruv in Flatbush. Maybe you don’t realize that they are MO because they approve of kollel.

Dear Hakatan,

If it comes down to mesorah than I probably outdo you a thousand to one. But it comes down to shimush. You have to know how your own leaders apply their standards to themselves, their peers, other leaders, the laity, the unobservant, etc.

1) His position is stuck in a lot of tough public conundrums. This is nowhere near the toughest call he had to make. If it is so obvious to you that it is forbidden regardless of context, wouldn’t we be obligated to be convinced of some outrageous explanation to avoid lashon hora?

2) I never meant to insinuate that it is permitted. Just that it is unclear the reason of the issur. Can you provide the reason from today going all the way back?

PS What if R’ Murvis went into a church to meet with a priest on a matter of religious freedom?

I’m loving this thread. All the history, from the insiders perspective….

I basically learned how to read from this site. All the times you posted about corrupting kids? I was tht kid. And, thank you for the fascinating view of how we yidden can be schismatic.

i have a lot to say about this topic. Part of it is unique to what this site was and still is. But most of it is that the larger way of posting, debating and even personal schmoozing has changed.

Should I continue?

Dear Ze,

Just ask Zaphod.

Dear Akuperma,

It comes down to vote tallies. A very many people vote. And a large amount of them are easily convinced that society’s ills can be solved with the next election.

More like the media we consume convinces us what we should want is more important than what we actually need.

I think that people who lead meaningful lives do not fall for all this political conniving. Not that they care much to stop it, but anyways.

Chassidim can be seen carrying in Flatbush. And sefardim. The MO in Flatbush of yore followed Rav Moshe more than any other posek. Including the Rav.