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GAW
“It has nothing to do with Tznius”
Are you saying that there’s no likely connection between tragedy in the world and the decline in Tznius?
Glamorous by Ralph Lauren is great…but discontinued. 🙁 🙁
“First of all, when some of the posters said that they only wear it around the house, what does that mean? Do you stay home untill it wears off?”
I only put on perfume when I don’t expect to be leaving the house for the next while (like at night once I’m getting ready for bed, Erev Shabbos or Y”T…)
It depends on the person, not their gender. Some people take it better than others.
It also depends on the situation. How and at what point in the shidduch they are rejected.
Wow, adorable, that sounds like one crazy and very sad story.
“The maturity level of the girls that go to Israel and of those that dont is different. These girls need to prepare for life and once married they wont be able to- and definitely shouidnt be- running back to Mommy for everything.”
I never went to Israel and anyone who knows me can tell you that I am more mature than most girls my age, and I’m that last person to go ‘running back to Mommy’ for everything. In fact, I’m so mature that I realize how ridiculous it would of been to ask my parents to spend $20k for a year of sem in Israel when I know they have more important things to do with the money. (Like marry off all of us kids, tuition….)
Sefarim that talk about Emunah can help overcome jealousy. It helps you internalize the idea that wahtever is bashert for you cannot be taken away.
“My counter argument is simple. If this is what Hashem wants, why would some women not feel fulfilled by simply stating home? Why crave additional intellectual stimulation…Perhaps Hashem gave them this “itch” because in those cases he wants those women to do more???”
These women obviously have lots to learn about motherhood. How sad. To quote TAB’s friend:
Instead of saying “Well, its not for everyone,” why don’t people say “Its something I need to work on. Unfortunately I’m not able to stay home with my kids”????
The problem is with them. Not with the staying at home.
Tehillem. Loads of it.
“While there are definitely great girls out there, and I’m talking generically, as the word “great” is relative, why is there so many problems when these great girls marry?”
If “great” would mean greatness in Middos Tovos and NOT looks, money, successful career, yichus, etc. than that wouldn’t be the case. And just because her friends or neighbors say she has great middos, doesn’t mean much. The ones who really, really know are her immediate family.
aries2756
I’m really enjoying your input on this thread! I too, have a very strong opinion on this; thank you for setting the record straight about the privilege, patience, and priority shift that motherhood is all about.
“My question is if Hashem only wanted women to stay home, then why would he give them the gift of a “brain” that needs to be stimulated and challenged?
If staying home is what you want, great. But if you need to pursue more, then there is no shame in that either….”
Are you saying that being a stay-at-home mom doesn’t require any brains?
Anyone who feels that being a full-time mother does not give them enough emotional, spiritual and intellectual satisfaction and is therefore looking for “more” needs to reexamine the whole motherhood thing. (That’s not to say that a woman might not want to pursue a profession for financial reasons, or because she enjoys that particular field. But it should never be because she’s looking for “more” outside of mommyhood.)
Depends who is talking. Ask them what they mean.
I don’t see how beshows are the answer to the shidduch crisis. And although I know many chassidishe couples who “beshowed” and are very happily married, I’m just curious why you agreed to marry someone if “you haven’t a clue who he is! And neither does he know who I am.” There are plenty of chassidishe girls who have 2-3 beshows, 2+ hours each, so they can still meet beshow-style, but have a clue who the other is….
Sorry, but I’ve been very busy the past few days. I put a reminder in my phone to write it up tonight. You’ll have it by tomorrow morning the latest IY”H. Mazal tov to the chasunah, btw.
Yeah, I do. But it takes me forever to type in hebrew lettering. I’ll try to make time for it later or tom if I can.
I find it interesting to note that many, many kids don’t even know what’s considered chutzpah and what isn’t. It’s quite another story than when a kid is aware that he’s being disrespectful but does so anyway.
Anyone else see that? Would you say that this is a reflects a change in chinuch these days?
Wishing you a Refuah Shelaima!
Yup, sure sounds like sour grapes
A TIME
Bonei Olam
Chai Lifeline
Zichron Shlome
RCCS
Tomche Shabbos
Kupt Ha’ir
Bikur Cholim
Bein Ish Ubein Achiv
Mekimi
There are tons of others….these come to mind right away, though.
Refuah Shelaima.
shprintze
Rabbi Falk’s sefer provides sources for every single Halacha in there.
I have a very, very difficult time with certain areas of Tznius. Wearing skirts that give sufficient coverage, wearing tights that are not see-through, wearing my hair in a eidel way (Hashem gave me very pretty, long hair and it takes a lot of sensitivity and strength to wear it toned-down)and not wearing tight clothes are the four most difficult areas of Tznius for me. (I’m not even gonna talk about how hard it is to keep the makeup, perfume, and nail colors in check)
These things are a struggle for me EVERY SINGLE DAY. It does NOT get easier with time, and it’s not always a winning battle for me. There are many thoughts that give me the strength to make the right choices and I am grateful to Hashem for sending certain books/shiurim my way so I can remind myself why and what I am fighting for.
I just want people to understand that not every time you see a girl/woman with a Tznius flaw does it mean that she doesn’t care or doesn’t try. No, I am not a BT, but it is still the most difficult area of Yiddishkeit for me and all I can do for now is keep on fighting and somehow not get discouraged by the occasional decline. And give myself credit for the improvement I’ve made.
Some posters seem to think that Tznius is only about awareness. For many people that seems to be enough. But not for everyone. I am very very familiar with the Halachos, but the struggle is still there.
BaalHabooze
That’s right.
Byanonymous
It is truly a beautiful thing, for those who are able to swing it, to learn in kollel full-time. You mention that basically everyone you know lives this lifestyle. Well, believe it or not, they are not the majority. Most frum guys actually work. It does not make them less of a Ben Torah, less ehrich, less of a Yirei Shomayim.
therealmgama
Sorry, but Viznitz definately DOES learn chumash and navi in actual sefarim. I am not familiar with Bais Tziporra, but I highly doubt that they are the only exception besides Satmar.
Ok, Feif Un, here’s one: Do you think people should be taking advice about their relationships from anonymous posters in the CR? Why?
observanteen
Nice poem! Do you write peotry regularly?
Sorry bout the repeats….
Mi K’Amche Yisroel
Thank you, Hashem!
I love you.
I miss you.
BaalHabooze
Sorry, didn’t see your question till now. I don’t remember word for word what that mechaneches said, but the general idea was that somehow, being thoroughly familiar with meforshim on various hebrew subjects gives the girls the chizuk and inspiration they need to be ehrliche, nurturing mothers and wives.
Nowhere in the article, however, was there an explanation for how exactly knowledge of a deeper pshat on a posuk in Nach with help anyone be a better mother/wife. So, honestly, I don’t get it.
collegegrad
The only chassidishe girls school that is not taught anything inside is Satmar.
Anyone read the Binah last week? (or maybe it was the Family First..?) Anyway, there was an article in it about this.
One interviewee said something like this: It used to be that women barely knew how to read hebrew. But they knew how to daven. Today, many women and girls can translate nearly every word in the siddur/tehillem (and quote meforshim on each posuk) but they don’t know how to daven.
I believe that the schools are in competition with each other to see who can have the most intensive in-depth textual studies program. And it doesn’t help that to keep up with the seminary programs you have to be at that level of learning.
A school that focuses of halachos pertaining to women and girls, hahskafa, and Chumash, Nach, Tehillem, Pirkei Avos-WITH A FOCUS ON THE HASHKAFA ASPECT OF LEARNING, not just to cover more meforshim, is viewed as second-rate.
“Do I think its wise to take a male to a mall?
Lets put it this way; its a real risk.”
Some of my friends look at me like I’m nuts when I tell them I won’t take my little brother to the mall. Even though he’s pretty young now, I don’t want him to start going at all cuz then I won’t know when or how to get him to stop. Glad to hear that I’m not overdoing it.
As I girl, I don’t understand how difficult it is for a guy, but I know this much: I wouldn’t want my husband seeing the models displayed all over that place. So iy”H I will do everything I can to keep my sons away from there. For their wives sake, let their eyes and neshomos stay sensitised.
Anyone ever heard of an Itta wig? Think its an Israeli company.
There are many many books out there that discuss all areas of Hashkafa and Halacha. Also, you can always run your advise through a Rav to make sure it’s in line with the Torah’s view.
Here’s something I posted on a similar thread:
TweetTweet, It all depends on how you define a good boy/girl. Do you mean Middos Tovos? Do you mean successful careergirls and top learners? Do you mean “Ivy League” Seminaries and Yeshivos?
When I think of a good girl or boy, I think of someone with beautiful middos, priorities set straight, listens to and respects Daas Torah and someone who is concerned with making Hashem proud.
According to my definition of the terms “good boy/girl”, I would have to disagree with your date. It’s hard to find, period. This goes for the boys AND the girls.
“Without Israeli soldiers to defend us, where would our EY yeshivas and kollels be not to mention our dear precious Torah true communities”
Actually, the truth is quite the opposite. Without the E”Y Yeshivas and Kollels to defend us, where would our Israeli soldiers and the rest of the state be?
Make no mistake about it. They don’t protect the frum communities and thousands of Bnei Torah. It’s in the Zchus of all the Torah that the army is able to protect its citizens.
Tune out.
I was pretty young when it happened. I was in school that day and we were called into the auditorium to say Tehillem.
It really hit me a couple of years later, when I was watching an unedited video of the attack. Seeing people jumping from the towers, the faces of the crowds on the streets, listening to the 911 calls from people trapped inside the towers….it was heartrending.
And regarding the Yiddishkeit questions, there are those with the Emunah Peshuta line.
The mechanchim in our school system are not used to addressing these issues. As you pointed out, these topics are only out in the open in the Kiruv world, and most teachers/rebbeim wouldn’t have a clue how to answer many of the questions that their students may ask. Many of them are parents themselves who belong to one of the catagories that I mentioned.
I really don’t think we can explain the social stigmas you describe with one underlying cause. I believe it is a combination of the above mentioned issues.
Regarding the Kiruv Krovim issue:
I do not think that this stems from “our need to be seen as the epitome of perfection”. I think that the frum community is uncomfortable and unaccustomed to dealing with these issues. I think they don’t know how to. I think there aren’t enough people stepping up to educate the parents and fight to implement Yiddishkeit 101 studies into the school system.
Ever wonder how come Kiruv is so successful these days? Ever think about what might happen if yiddishkeit is presented to the FFB’s similar to how it’s taught in Kiruv Seminaries/yeshivos?
They teach you the why’s not just the how’s about yiddishkeit. They teach you the ABC’s of hashkafa; instead of expecting you to magically know it at birth. They focus on developing a meaningful, PERSONAL connection with Hashem and His Mitzvos. They encourage you to ask and understand and wonder.
And nobody wants to go there.
Not every married person is qualified to give marital advice.
Not every divorced person is unqualified to give marital advice.
Not every single person is unqualified to to give marital advice.
Let’s not oversimplify things. It depends on the particular person, their life experience, maturity, understanding of relationships, hashkafos, and common sense. It also depends on what kind of marriage issues are being discussed.
I don’t see what the problem is.
As a single girl,(who is madly in love with perfume!) I wear perfume at home only. Even though there are some perfumes that are supposed to be subtle enough that a passerby wouldn’t smell it, I’ve noticed that I smell lots of women’s perfume in public areas so I personally don’t wear any outdoors. (I do make exceptions for girls-only events, though!)
I’m not sure what the circumstances are that led you to that neighborhood/city. But have you thought about relocating? (at least once your child gets a little older)
Btw, do no be afraid to tell your kids that what they saw/heard someone do is not allowed for a Jewish girl/boy. They SHOULD know that what was done is against halacha or not in line with a Torah lifesyle, however, it is not their place to judge somebody else’s level of halacha/hashkafa. Their job is to work on their own Yiddishkeit.
(But call it what it is. If it’s assur, then it’s assur. If it’s a chumrah, then call it that….)
First of all, if anything you should be worried about your kids looking down at them, but I don’t see why they would hate them.
Kids should understand that different Yidden have different standards when it comes to entertainment, dress, kashrus, interpersonal relationships, etc. It is never our place to judge. We all do our very best to make Hashem proud and listen to our Rav when it comes to setting our own standards.
(As an aside, the TV example is rather complicated since it’s almost impossible to have kids constantly hang out with friends who watch TV and expect them to withstand the temptation….)
Are you asking how we can teach our kids not to do stuff that others allow without putting these people down?
TweetTweet, It all depends on how you define a good boy/girl. Do you mean Middos Tovos? Do you mean successful careergirls and top learners? Do you mean “Ivy League” Seminaries and Yeshivos?
When I think of a good girl or boy, I think of someone with beautiful middos, priorities set straight, listens to and respects Daas Torah and someone who is concerned with making Hashem proud.
According to my definition of the terms “good boy/girl”, I would have to disagree with your date. It’s hard to find, period. This goes for the boys AND the girls.
blabla
Oh my God. It hurts so much to read your post; I cannot begin to imagine what it must be like to live it. I daven from the very bottom of my heart that you should find the proper help very very soon and have a complete Refuah Sheleima.
Please, please, please do not give up on yourself! Anyone who struggles with Anorexia, Anxiety or Depression knows that there are better days and worse days. I hope today is a better day for you.
I’m also wondering if maybe school is not the best option for you right now. It’s horrible that you spend so much time in a place where you are so misunderstood and mistreated. (I’m not sure how old you are, so I don’t know how practical this suggestion is.)
I will be davening you for you, so please let us know how things work out in school and otherwise.