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clearheaded-
None of us should play G-d here. We do not know why each person got their specific trial to overcome. I’m not justifying those that go off…I’m saying we shouldn’t judge them. Period. At the end of 120 they are going to have to deal with that on their own. All we can do is accept them and keep trying to help. Judging doesn’t make anything better.
Your judgements of them “indulging in sin” doesn’t make you more pious or a better person. Rather please try and be dan lekaf zechus. Read through this site, frumsupport.com, under mental illness, with an open heart and try to understand what people are dealing with.
This thread is hysterical wow I have not been in the coffee room in forever. I’m sure those that are not yet married will come back here when planning where they will stay to get a review of the pros and cons :).
Why does it matter to anyone? Some people like the idea of starting fresh in their own home and others understandably want the first night to be more special. Every hotel has a bridal suite that can be booked with 2 beds jewish or not.
Just realized that there are two very similar threads trending now.
Squeak and sof davar, thanks! 🙂
clearheaded-
I give you all the credit in the world for overcoming wtvr challenges you faced in your life and emerging stronger. But there’s something you’re not understanding here, humans all have different personalities. Some people are strong while others tend to be frail and prone to weakness. Not to compare, but after the Holocaust many many jews went off the D while others held strong to their emunah. Are we G-d forbid able to judge those that were not able to withstand their hellish trials? Obviously not.
I can say the same thing, “I had every excuse to go off the derech” and didn’t, but that doesn’t make me condemn others for not pulling through. Believe me I watch young women with these disorders struggling daily to understand why they were chosen to live this nightmare of a life. Going off is not their first option. They yearn to fit in and be a part of “normal” jewish life. As a mentally ill patient in a psychiatric ward once told my professor who is a psychologist, “I had all the same dreams you had, I wanted to sit in yeshiva and learn and marry and raise a beautiful family. I can’t do any of that, now what are you gona tell me?”
“Bipolar and borderline personalities are real diseases,”
as opposed to?? do some research, visit a psych ward, then tell me if you think clinical depression is still some kind of game.
“but that doesn’t mean one has the excuse to go off the derech because of it. There are enough frum people who are frum and have these diseases.”
True there are unfortunately many, speak to them, learn their struggles and empathize with their fight rather than say “that’s no excuse.”
Bottom line to end my rambling is we cannot judge. Thank G-d for giving you the backbone and emunah to withstand your nisyonos.
I read this thread with such mounting fury it was impossible not to comment, and can’t believe it’s even still open.
Have any of you ever spoken to young women or men suffering from a mental illness?? As a social work student, I have. Do you have any idea whatsoever what it’s like to live in a world of absolute darkness with an ever-present yearning to end your life??? Depression, Bipolar disorder, borderline personality are not controllable illness that are picked by choice! Do you think that young girls tear up their bodies with razor blades and other self-mutilating equipment because there is something wrong with their “bechira??” And Yes, you know what happens in schools? They’re shunned because G-d forbid a child see a psychologist in the frum community. Shidduchim will be ruined, and their “names” ruined forever. So then what happens is they are left to exist in their own world of pain and isolation finding comfort in the streets. How dare anyone on this forum criticize those that leave the fold as a result. And PTSD? Can anyone here judge a girl that has been abused by her family members? Is it that hard to imagine that she will have tremendous anger and hatred in her towards frumkeit? Really, go ahead and blame something that big on her yetzer hara or a vaccination.
Keep in mind that there are many people with these disorders that are reading what is written here and I could only imagine how they are shaking. Stop posting your insensitive comments until you actually become friends with someone with a mental disorder. Then come back here and continue posting all your educated and hashkafic theories.
The Touro school of social work is accredited by now and I’m pretty sure this coming Fall will be their third year. The reason someone may not want it is because they are no where near as established as some of the other schools previously mentioned. I don’t get why someone would do Touro anyway since the only thing frum about it is that they give off yamim tovim. The classes look that same as any other school.
Striving: lollll 🙂
I got an email today that in a way fits for this thread, here goes:
him. He was an honest man who always behaved appropriately. He never
cheated, lied or stole anything. He never drank alcoholic beverages
why he was invited to court but the baker knew.
The baker used to buy butter and cheese from the milkman for his
baking. One day he suspected that the lumps of butter that the milkman
each was exactly one kilo. The baker decided to check out the matter
and for a period he consistently weighed every lump of butter that he
bought from the milkman. He discovered that they were in fact less
than a kilo. Sometimes they were 900grms, sometimes they were 950grms
and once one was even 850grms.
inviting him to court. The milkman arrived at the court shaking with
fear. He had never been to a court house and had never spoken to the
Judge. The Judge evoked a sense of fear amongst the villagers.
kind that needs a weight on one side to balance the butter on the
morning when I come to weigh the butter for the baker I place a kilo
loaf of bread on one side of the scale and this way I know that the
butter that I will give to the baker will be exactly one kilo.
you give the baker is exactly the weight of the loaf of bread he
that our own house is in order.
Yea there definately is a variety of job options with an MSW. Gluk lol we might end up at the same place 🙂
In shidduchim it means usually chassidish family, he will wear the levush like bekecha (sp) and streimel but doesn’t really follow the other minhagim, like they might be working, college…
striving, I had the same issue with deciding whether or not to pursue psych or social work. A masters in Psychology will get you absolutely no place without your PhD. This I’ve heard from social workers and psychologists with their PhDs. A Phd, unless you’re extremely on top of it, can take anywhere from 5-10 years to finish. Although a psychologist will get paid much more than a social worker, it is much longer schooling and will also cost much more.
Hey so I’m also in middle of applying to grad school and this is what I got out of the open houses.
Hunter – Basically it’s hard to get it so if you do then go. No question about it. It’s the cheapest college and competitive so even if their curriculum is not exactly geared toward what your looking for, since they’re more administrative, just go and do your fieldwork in another field your interested in. Hunter is around 4,000 a semester. Hunter is also moving in 2011 to East Harlem if that makes any diff.
NYU – Prestigious name, and very clinical based. But from what I’ve heard, it’s not worth the extra work or the money. Their tuition comes out to 60,000 and it’s very hard. Being that starting salary is 40-42 a yr…you do the math 🙂
Adelphi – Very well established, and a little easier and cheaper than NYU. I think it actually comes out to 45,000 for the whole thing. They claim they run on a clinical track but you actually end up with a very broad knowledge of social work.
Columbia – I’m not applying there just because it is the most expensive of all the colleges. It is also very far, right near Washington Heights. They also don’t give an MSW degree they only give a MS which is technically the same thing. But it’s definately a very choshuv name.
YU-Wurtzweiler – Jewish based. Around the same price as Adelphi, but also very far, near Washington Heights. I actually heard from a few people that graduated from there that they are anti-semetic because the grad school is not frum so they davka try to go the other way.
You may want to look into Touro, R’Bulka’s thing through LIU, and Adelphi opened a program this year for Jewish women.
In regard to Social Work ethics, not every therapy has to be incorporated into your practice. People respect your religious opinions in most settings. Also, think about working in the frum community, you can help out so much!!
Gluk with wtvr you decide!!
“I have seen mothers walking with baby carriages, beginning to cross AGAINST THE LIGHT with the carriage sticking out ahead of them. It is so scary because cars are always zooming through intersections, trying to make the light!”
To add to this, moms please when you’re waiting for the light please please make sure your stroller is not sticking out into the street!!
And to all kids on bikes, don’t speed into the street!! Slow the bike and check for turning cars before crossing. Last Purim I was making a right turn and out of nowhere two kids riding one bike came flying into the street. I was turning pretty slow so the bike only scraped against my car, and thank g-d nothing else happened but had I been going one drop faster chas v’shalom…
GAW, yea they opened today.
don’t they already have their singers? Lipa, AB Rotenberg, and Ohad possibly? Maybe I’m mixing it up with something else or last yr
Spanish. Becoming the new English. I took the first lesson on Rosetta Stone and never had time to continue. Gluk!!
Joseph, true…so then I have no clue why now people are making it into an issue more than they were for the past 3,500 🙂
Mepal, Trust me I’m in the shidduch scene and I’m talking about lots of girls and guys I know, myself included that are picky. And since Joseph says this issue has been around forever, guess we shouldn’t feel guilty about wanting THE BEST lol
Joseph LOL!!!!!
Oomis, first and second dates are just checking if they’re compatible!! Once there a “kesher” and some bonding it’s much harder for either party to step back and ask themselves if that person is really for them.
Joseph,
Thanks. The shidduch system that we have today is a lot different than the system they used for 3,500 yrs. There was a completely different dating method. Boys never took the girl on ten dates before he decided that he actually liked her looks, personality, sense of humor…It was much more like the chassidish way of dating where the parents basically chose a boy/girl and they met once or twice. Correct me if I’m wrong but I think there are much less older singles by the chassidim because of this. My chassidish friends can’t understand how we can date so many guys to try and find Mr. Perfect. They met one or two and shoiyn, it’s perfect.
I could think of at least 10 single girls that are around their thirties off the top of my head, and there really aren’t that many older boys 27+ that would rather go out with girls 28, 29… over the 22+ girls. Maybe the singles have just gotten too picky with looking for “the one” but from what I see the crisis is out of control and very sad.
Coming from the litvish circles I definately have heard this. As people above posted saying someone’s name makes an instant kesher and that’s not the purpose of a shidduch date. When a couple is sitting in let’s say a private quiet hotel lounge and the guy addresses the girl by her name, it is a undeniable fact of nature that she will feel a changed attraction for the guy she’s dating. Only once a couple is sure that they found their bashert should first names be used. Otherwise on a date, the guy and girl are completely focused on eachother so there is no reason to say anything like “hey you” to catch their attention.
The NASI project was a great incentive for shadchanim to redt older girls to younger guys, but now everyone needs to be aware that there is no more money left in their funds. Someone I know made a shidduch for a girl almost thirty to a guy in his younger twenties and the couple figured that they would get 2,000 shadchunus gelt from NASI, so they gave the shadchan much less than they would have. The shadchan still did not receive her promised money from NASI (she’s on a waiting list) and it’s a chaval because she could really have used the money and the couple would definately have given more had they known NASI wasn’t going to pay.
Joseph, it’s obvious. When I was 18 I was dating guys that were 24 and was redt to guys even 26. Most guys want to date the younger girls but then what happens to the girls 21-25? So if this has been happening over years we sorta run into a problem which is the “crisis.”
B’shaa Tova SJS!! Gona be in Israel hopefully!
lol sounds familiar
Hey everyone! Just letting you know I so far am on my diet for exactly 2 weeks and 2 days and lost anywhere from 6-10 pounds (my scale can’t make up it’s mind)
Just eat healthy breakfast, snacks throughout the day like fruits, veggies, or nuts, and a healthy lunch and supper. Also work out as often as possible.
LiederLieder, I’m not sure bout the guys side but on the women’s side there’s a sit-up machine and another machine that you sit in that does the same job as crunches.
you might also wana invest $40 in an ab-blaster, depending how serious you are about losing the belly
Gluk!
Who’s working anyway?
The population of this country is 300 million…
160 million are retired.
That leaves 140 million to do the work.
There are 85 million in school.
Which leaves 55 million to do the work.
Of this there are 35 million employed by the federal government.
Leaving 15 million to do the work.
2.8 million are in the armed forces preoccupied with killing Osama Bin-Laden.
Which leaves 12.2 million to do the work.
Take from that total the 10.8 million people who work! for state and city governments.
And that leaves 1.4 million to do the work.
At any given time there are 188,000 people in hospitals.
Leaving 1,212,000 to do the work
Now, there are 1,211,998 people in prisons.
That leaves just two people to do the! work.
You and me…
And there you are,
sitting
at your computer, reading jokes.
Nice. Real nice.
K posting a few but I didn’t read through this whole thread so sorry if there’s doubles!!
At a recent computer expo (COMDEX),Bill Gates reportedly compared the computer industry with the auto industry and stated,
‘If GM had kept up with technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25 cars that got 1,000 miles to the gallon.’
In response to Bill’s comments, General Motors issued a press release stating:
If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving cars with the following characteristics:
1. For no reason whatsoever, your car would crash……..
Twice a day.
2. Every time they repainted the lines in the road, you would have to buy a new car.
3. Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason. You would have to pull to the side of the road, close all of the windows, shut off the car, restart it, and reopen the windows before you could continue. For some reason you would simply accept this.
4. Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a left turn would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, in which case you would have to reinstall the engine.
5. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was reliable, five times as fast and twice as easy to drive – but would run on only five percent of the roads.
6. The oil, water temperature, and alternator warning lights would all be replaced by a single ‘This Car Has Performed An Illegal Operation’ warning light.
7. The airbag system would ask, “Are you sure?” before deploying.
8. Occasionally, for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in, until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key and grabbed hold of the radio antenna.
9. Every time a new car was introduced, car buyers would have to learn how to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car.
10. You’d have to press the ‘Start’ button to turn the engine off.
PS – I’d like to add that when all else fails, you could call ‘customer service’ in some foreign country and be instructed in some foreign language how to fix your car yourself!!!!
Wow I so don’t get this! anybody could double any screen name they want??
O M G! Literally awesome thread!! I just started a mega diet after I gained FOUR pounds the first days of pesach! No joke! I started running and actually using my gym membership it’s great!! All fellow chubby ppl meet me at the gym it will be fun I promise!!
I’m cracking up about the 3 bowling balls that’s hysterical!
Omg Mazal tov curious!!
I desperately need to listen to fast music when I jog otherwise I’m gona just klutz along. Think I could get a heter?
Hey everyone! Just stopping by and saw this thread. It’s pretty funny cuz I was just having a party on the dance revolution on chol hamoed. I don’t think people realize how it looks when they’re the ones doing it. Great point Mazal77! Thanx!
Oomis, the girls that know how to dance have definately watched movies or dance videos. The girls that are really sheltered definately don’t know how to move that way.
Hey!! I’m around, I keep popping in and getting updated but don’t have too much time too post!
I noticed the emails are getting updated w/o me!! nice job ppl keep it up!
lol! you prbly had fun guessing who’s who!
I have my own car and I’m b’emet attached to it. Can I justify it by saying that without my car I wouldn’t be able to do half the amount of volunteer stuff I use the car for?
moish 39 for areivim??? he’s totally around 26
Congrats on the marriage lgbg.
Btw Pashuteh I’m still working on the clothing drive for you, I didn’t forget jus got busy
I just got an email with a lot of shidduch stories that were copied from this thread. I was rolling cuz I posted one of the stories and it got emailed to me
Hey hey hey HaQer!! It’s a light cute thread! keep it that way!
Kapusta, nice!! I like it!
I did it last yr cuz I was up the whole night, maybe this yr I’ll try to wake up! 🙂
Hava gr8 shabbos everyone!!!! Make sure to be b’simcha!!
SJS, awesome!! Thanx for posting that! Everytime I see it I give myself a pat on the back!! lol go women!
beacon,
“I call that Kool-Aid. “
lol at 12%? what dyu like?
anonymisss, no clue I probably said it to myself. I was a little kid, thought I had better things to do tanis esther night.
I really feel bad bout it though but k good I definately heard most of the megilla.
raised, you sound like me. I’m petrified I’ll think of different messed up things that happened under the chupa. But like I posted above, If you’re positive that it will never happen again, then don’t worry. Even if you do think of it, trust me it will help you cry better
Is it true if I miss even one word of the megilla I’m not yotzei?
I’m embarressed to say this but two yrs ago I came late to megilla and some guy was like just come in quick, so I just stayed. I felt kinda guilty after
Just to add on for all the people that insist on buying French Louis Vutton, On the doors of their store in Paris it says NO JEWS OR DOGS ALLOWED. Rachmana L’tzlan
lol it means to cry stam to cry for no reason.
btw baal kishron, I like your sig!
wow 22oldgold, I’m feeling a good cry coming on!!! AMAZING STORIES!!!
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
moish, nice. whose motto is that?
whoops! 🙂 no prob anytime!!