myfriend

“if someone was constantly burnt by blacks” and put a sign on their shop “No Business with Blacks at this Establishment” I think YOU’d be the first to condemn them — regardless of the circumstances that led to that policy.

Either way, refusing to do business with blacks or religious Jews is a blatant violation of the anti-discrimination laws in all 50 states. I’m shocked you — who constantly are preaching rule of secular law here and dina d’malchusa — would not only tolerate it against YOUR OWN BRETHREN — but would use such racist pigs as an example.

As long as they are camouflage…

The bigger question is about the bullets…

So why don’t you? Are you ready to take some bullets for your beliefs?

And vus vet zein after techiyas hameisim?

SJS, you’re halachic disagreement whether it is stealing or not, is just that. A disagreement whether it is or is not considered stealing underthe eyes of halacha. Honestly, mw13 is more compelling. But either way, NO ONE condones stealing — assuming something is stealing.

AND even IF it IS stealing, stealing’s halachic recourse is repayment of double (or sometimes more) of the stolen amount. Toeiva (homosexuality) is a capital offense that carries a death sentence. (Even for non-Jews under halacha.) Incomparable. That is far worse any way you look at it. So yes, the latter is very much worth railing so hard against, even more so than the original.

What makes you thing this is “a prevalent idea”? You are the first person I ever heard come up with this idea.

Why is it important to “remember to stand (or sit) straight” or worry about your posture?

popa, if people are required to advise of therapy for OCD or anxiety to their dates prior to engagement, the net result will be that they will not utilize therapy for their OCD or anxiety, thus avoiding telling their dates anything. Either way they will be not saying anything. But in the latter case, you have the additional aspect that they will marry untreated for their OCD or anxiety issues.

How are you right? You can disagree with a Tanna – while an Amora cannot, as was shown above?

Tzitzis isn’t an external display of our Jewishness, as Jews have always displayed. Weddings are also expensive if you have a number of children.

always wore a jacket, hat, and tie, even indoors.

Hmm. I guess it isn’t overkill afterall.

And I know girls whose middos “is their nisoyon”. Pehaps it too shouldn’t be their “litmus test”? Tznius is as least as important. It most surely should be a litmus test. It is also an indicator of other issues. And a husband is even supposed to divorce a wife who isn’t tznius.

BTW, for whatever reasons you frequently see heavy boys marrying skinny girls.

The most important thing to look for is a tznius’dik girl. Once you verify she is completely 100% tzanuah all the time, and you are otherwise satisfied with her, you can be almost sure all the other hashkofos issies with her will be okay. (Obviously generally check out, but these days a girl who is really tzanuah, is a top girl in everything from middos, etc.)

I did not see anyone here suggesting we implement the Sanhedrin’s treatment of women who display gross indecency in public (as described by the Chazon Ish.) They simply described the severity of dressing outside of halachic standards by noting the seriousness of the penalty in the time of the Sanhedrin. There is no reason to be up in arms. No one is currently collecting stones to make an example over the next prutza. Hence no one is suggesting this is a contemporary halachic issue, since there is no means of implementation. Hence this penalty not being recorded in Shulchan Aruch. Nevertheless, that does not neglect from its serious consequences, as the ultimate penalty imposed for this crime in times of yore surely demonstrate.

Nor do I see anyone judging anyone here. People are simply describing the consequence of such actions on a general note; not on an individual level (e.g. plonis bas plonis dresses badly.) As far as the claim that this issue should not be discussed, this is a halachic matter of discussion. On what basis can one suppress discussion of this halachic matter? Since when are we shy about telling what halacha wants from us? Where is it written that hilchos tznius are an exception? That you *feel* that way, is no anwer. I see no reason to hide this halachic discussion. Or even focus any less on it than the problem demands. By the way, gedolim often call a community tznius asifa (for both men and women) and discuss this problem in shul as well.

11219: So do you suggest joining the Army to achieve this purpose?

its_me: The family’s reaction is a wonderful wholesome demonstration of real true Ahavas Yisroel and Ahavas Hashem. There is no reason the driver should suffer anymore than he already is.

This would be true for any Yid.

aries: That is an Amora you are talking about. So you don’t understand the gemorah. But how do you have the chutzpa to come across judging an Amora?!

How was it misrepresented? The gemorah doesn’t criticize the Amorah, the analysis of the talmid quoted notwithstanding.

So the Chofetz Chaim wasn’t a rabbi?

Just because someone sports a shmatta that has semicha scribbled on it, doesn’t give him license to overturn the Torah, as some of those folks feel they can do. And when they do that, we all are obligated to call them to the carpet, despite that paper hanging on the wall in his office.

P.Y., when Reb Moshe referred to the “derech all women dress in the city”, he is referring to frum yidden, not goyim.

People tend to notice and have hirhurim from their own kind, i.e. other yidden, much more than from goyim. Sure goyim these days dress literally like chazeirim on two feet. But when frum girls dress provocatively they cause other yidden to sin. Unquestionably.

One sin doesn’t excuse another. There are thousands of threads on this website discussing thousands of issues. That doesn’t excuse this one. This one in fact is far worse than most, as the person is not only sinning themselves, but causing others to sin every time they aren’t dressed with tznius. Causing, potentially, hundreds of others to sin every day they dress as such. Hundreds or thousands of sins for each time they engage in this sin. Causing another person to sin is one of the worst aveiros. Here she is causing hundreds or more innocent bystanders to sin by simply seeing her, intentionally or unintentionally, each time. Not too many other aveiros are like that.

“I know, I for one would go OTD in the tznius sense in a minute if some random people think they can tell me what to wear.”

Would you go OTD and eat treif if some random people told you they think something you are eating is treif?

Would you go OTD and be mechallel Shabbos if some random people told you they think something you are doing is chillul Shabbos?

I find it very telling that we can discuss, here in the CR or elsewhere, all sorts of issues and problems from problems with the shidduch system, problems with kashrus, problems in bungalow colonies, problems with honesty and stealing, parenting issues, alcohol and drug problems, teens at risk, other halachic issues/problems, and stam general issues – and everyone can argue – even passionately and heatedly at times – yet no one tries to shut down the discussion with the old and tired things like they suddenly do when tznius and related topics arise with eh, its not ahavas yisroel to mention this, its not proper to discuss, mind your own business, etc. etc. etc. By tznius issues this same band suddenly gets all up tight and doesn’t even want to hear about it. Not that they even deny the massive tznius problems besetting our frum society. No, they often even admit it. Yet on this issue almost singularly, they just don’t even want to hear about it with all the tired excuses.