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There are alternatives for those on other madreigas…
Wolfish, may you be zocha to reach that madreiga b’korov.
If you drop the AKA, readers of old posts addressed to clearheaded will be confused who is talking to who.
Where can a poster change their display name?
cherrybim: Speak to the Rema if you disagree with him.
Since you are darshining from the Torah, what about Sarah hiding from guests when Avrohom brought them to his home? Does your wife hide from your guests? Do you kiss your wife in public?
Would you hold your friend from shul’s hand in the street?
It is in Even Ha’ezer. I don’t have the chapter handy.
shev143, it most certainly is assur.
The Shulchan Aruch/Rema says it is assur to show public affection. Would you hold your best (same gender) friends hand in the street? No, because that would be showing chiba. It is strictly forbidden to do so with your wife in public. Anyone who fears gehenim will certainly not do so. Unfortunately there are some “frum” people who aren’t afraid of gehenim.
1. Even if so, it doesn’t mean others may not fall into the halachic category of shoitim.
2. There opinion if they are in that category, is irrelevant whether they are or not.
That being said, I agree with you that often excusing OTD behavior on mental illness is just an excuse for a Baalei Aveira.
The funny thing is, I tend to finish sentences of non-stutterers and I don’t always maintain eye contact with non-stutterers either.
“Many people don’t know anything about stuttering, yet how to react when they come across a stutterer.”
Would not the best reaction be no reaction? i.e. talk to the stutterer as you would anyone else? That would be my approach.
A psak halacha is based upon halacha, not an “extreme chumrah”. Also, a shai’los chocom never hurts to ask, and can always be helpful.
True, yet none disagree with the Chazal of isha ksheira osah ratzon baalah. I’m sure you weren’t saying otherwise.
Would you like to quote which part of the Torah you are referring to regarding other reflections on marriage?
I think this discussion revolves around the Chazal of “isha ksheira osah ratzon baalah”.
clearheaded, earlier in the thread you said you are submissive to your husband’s authority, so I don’t see that we disagree much in practice.
If they even offered them 1% of their schar limud the recipients of that 1% would be have tremendous schar.
He mentioned before he is in yeshiva and has a Rosh Yeshiva.
He said there is NO equal leadership. You are splitting hairs with your differentiation between “leadership” and “partnership”. I think the reason is even you’ve come (a bit) under the influence of what he called “the unnatural and anti-social affectations” of feminism and their push for equality.
Where did this idea of going to a hotel on the wedding night originate from? Someone named Peter McNeil or someone named HaRav Shlomo Yaakov Klein?
d a, why don’t you check a dictionary for the meaning of romance. I shutter at having to spell it out on a frum website. It is not a word, or concept, that belongs in a Jewish mouth or home.
Chas V’Shalom, lehavdil elef alfei havdolos, to compare the goyishe concept of romance to Shir HaShirim — which is the allegorical representation of the relationship of Hashem and Klal Yisroel.
Either a partnership is 50/50 and thus equal, or it is not.
A marriage is not an equal partnership; the husband is the authority and Captain. A first mate is not equal to the Captain. This is the gadol saying this (as well as being common sense and how marriage has been practiced since the institution of marriage), not me.
He specifically said the leadership is not equal, so what is your splitting hairs about “equal partners”?
The treife romance as referred to by general society is the antithesis of Yiddishkeit.
And what could be “more special” than spending the first night of your new life in the Bayis Ne’eman that you are about to build, rather than in an unholy hotel room??
You’re disagreeing with the gadol hador, as per the bolded quote from his sefer a few posts back. I tend to go with the gedolim rather than with opinions of the hamon hoam.
the.nurse, then all I can say is perhaps you are hanging out in the wrong circles. Where I am, in the heart of frum NY (flatbush/BP/kensington), this is not only common but the rule. Chesed surrounds us all in town.
The fact there is every shade of frumkeit and levels of frumkeit and people of every kind of frum hashkofo under the sun in NY, in fact makes New Yorkers more open-minded and understanding of people not like them. OOT often it is much more homogeneous.
The massive amount of Chesed, Torah, and Ahvas Yisroel in NY most certainly does reflect the strong Yiddishkeit to be found in town.
Then perhaps you haven’t yet had the Zchus to meet the many NY families who constantly have over as guests people some people want to stay away from — the people who roam around aimlessly, have no family and friends, are mentally disadvantaged, don’t maintain the proper hygiene, etc. People who may otherwise be shunned are given closeness, support, and Yiddishkeit.
Even on an individual level the chesed in town is literally incomparable. The frum population of NY is so much less homogeneous than almost anywhere else. You have all types of frum yidden. And the massive amount of Hachnosas Orchim in town is something truly to behold. You have families constantly inviting baalei teshuva’s, visitors from OOT, less frum folks, etc. over for Shabbos, Yom Tov, and even weekday meals and visits. It is truly a Kiddush Shem Shmayim of the 1st degree.
I disagree. So many OOT’s have this inferiority complex. Some will talk down in-towners any opportunity at hand. If they were secure about their place, they wouldn’t need to look down at in-towners.
And honestly speaking do you have all the Bikur Cholims, Gemachs, Hatzaolah, Shomrim, Tzedaka organizations, Chaveirim, medical referral societies, Medical assistance organizations, etc. etc. — countless chesed organizations of all sorts oot like you have in NY? I don’t think anywhere in chutz l’aaretz compares to NY in chesed.
LOL DR. P! Wouldn’t that fit better under a topic for ghoulish humor?
A man walks into the street and manages to get a taxi just going by. He gets into the taxi, and the cabbie says, “Perfect timing. You’re just like Moishe.”
Passenger: “Who?”
Cabbie: “C. There’s a guy who did everything right. Like my coming along when you needed a cab. It would have happened like that to Moishe every single time.”
Passenger: “There are always a few clouds over everybody.”
Cabbie: “Not Moishe. He was a terrific athlete. He could have gone on the pro tour in tennis. He could golf with the pros. He sang like an opera baritone and danced like a Broadway star and you should have heard him play the piano.”
Passenger: “Sounds like he was something, huh?”
Cabbie: “He had a memory like a computer. Could remember everybody’s birthday. He knew all about wine, which foods to order and which fork to eat them with. He could fix anything. Not like me. I change a fuse, and the
whole neighborhood blacks out.”
Passenger. “Wow, some guy ehh?
Cabbie: “He always knew the quickest way to go in traffic and avoid traffic jams, not like me.
Passenger: “Mmm, not many like that around”
Cabbie: “And he knew how to treat a person and make him feel good and never answer him back, even if he was in the wrong; and his clothing was always immaculate, shoes highly polished too.”
Passenger: “An amazing fellow. How did you meet him?”
Cabbie: “Well, I never actually met Moishe.”
Passenger: “Then how do you know so much about him?”
Cabbie: “I married his widow.”
George Bush is surrounded by his most trusted advisors when he asks “How do the Jews know everything first?”
Nobody can answer his question but one aide suggests he speaks with Henry Kissinger.
He calls him on the phone.
“Henry, Mr. President here, tell me as one of the Chosen People how do the Jews always know everything first?”
Kissinger replies, “I don’t know Mr. President but if you really want to find out I think you need to infiltrate their Orthodox community, become one of them and gain their confidence. Then you might discover how they do it.”
Bush decides to take on the task personally and calls in Hollywood’s best wardrobe and make-up artists to help him change his appearance to that of an orthodox Jew. With the transformation complete he calls Kissinger back to ask him for a few Yiddish phrases.
At 6.00 a.m. Bush arrives in New York’s Orthodox Jewish quarter and dispenses will all his aides and security. He walks the streets until he finds a Strictly Kosher Deli serving early morning breakfast.
He enters looking exactly like all the other diners he buys a black coffee and starts to mingle. Eventually he turns to one of his kin and says “Vus Muxda?”.
The elderly Orthodox Jew replies,
“George Bush is in town!”
kapusta, do you accept d a’s apology?
Okay, but at the end of the day she needs to act with her husband’s approval. She needs to be a good communicator to convince her husband when she feels he may be wrong on something.
clearheaded, I just looked at Rav Miller zt”l’s quote again, and actually he specifically is against the term “equal”.
Quote from his sefer:
“Before marriage it is imperative to ascertain the young woman’s attitude toward feminism and “women’s rights” and careerism. It is out of the question to build a Jewish home, or any home whatsoever, if the prospective wife has been tainted with these anti-natural and anti-social preachings. The woman’s career and happiness are in her home: absolutely and entirely. Her husband, her children and her home are the expressions of her personality and her Free Will, and they are her chief forms of serving G-d. The modern orthodox “Rebbetzin” with a college degree and a job in secular professions is a misfit even in a non-Jewish home. The ideas of revolt against a husband’s authority and the unrealistic dream of equal leadership in the family, lead only to unhappiness and failure, and very frequently to divorce. A Beth Jacob girl should be wed soon after or before graduation. Every day after she leaves the Beth Jacob marks another step away from idealism, for the street and the office and the secular school have an unfailing effect which increases from day to day. It is never a simple matter to achieve harmony in the home; effort and wisdom and fear of G-d are required. But with the additional burden of feminism, all problems become aggravated; and like all the unnatural and anti-social affectations of the libertarians this leads only to failure and unhappiness.”
No, clearheaded, I don’t think anyone becomes less equal. The question is whether the term equal is the right term in the first place. Is the President “equal” to the Vice President? As a human being, absolutely. In his function as Vice President, absolutely not. But like you said, if the President becomes incapacitated, the VP takes over his function.
I do think a wife should “enlighten” her husband when appropriate, but not c”v “going against” him.
Boy is this a long thread! Anyways the debate whether “equal” is or isn’t the appropriate description for comparing men and women, I think, is one of semantics. I don’t even see a discrepancy between that quote from Mishpacha magazine and the earlier quote of Rav Miller zt”l from his sefer. (Even though Rav Miller is a godol hador, and not to equate what he said to a magazine quote.) Rav Miller said there can’t be 2 kings or 2 commanders and that the wife is submissive, and the husband is the captain while the wife is his first mate. OTOH the article in Mishpacha (at least from the partial context it was quoted) doesn’t seem to be talking about a husband – wife relationship but rather men – women comparison in general.
sofdavar, some may have moved back, but most love New York and stay around. Many out of towner move to NY after they are married. The fact is there are many thousands of former out of towners currently still happily living in NY, saying they would never move back out of town.
Yes, you are understanding me wrong. I was talking about quantity, not exclusivity.
As far as yeshivish l’vush labeling people, well that’s the point (and this has nothing to do with location.) The Rabbonim and Talmidim davka want to be labeled as a Ben Torah. That’s why Bnei Torah always dressed as Bnei Torah. The precise uniform of Bnei Torah changed over the years, but Bnei Torah certainly always dressed to show they are Bnei Torah.
Oh no, not another controversial topic! 😉
sofdavar, Is that why so many of the out of towners move to NY for shidduchim? Apprarently they all feel its better here. So many out of towners have become proud New Yorkers. So many more out of towners are still becoming proud New Yorkers. So many more are moving into NY, than the other way. Obviously there is a good reason for this, and it has been happening for a long time already.
Why do you think so many Roshei Yeshivos, Rabbonim, Gedolim, and Rebbes make NY their home??
ramateshkolian, I’m not sure what planet your dreaming of. The fact is NY is getting bigger and bigger with so many out of towners moving in here for shidduchim, and all the other amenities of Yiddishkeit available nowhere else in chutz laaretz. Why do you think so many Gedolei Yisroel shlita, Roshei Yeshiva shlita, Rebbe’s shlita, past and present choose NY as the home for themselves & their kehillos, Yeshivos, Chasidim, Batei Medrashim, etc.? Because of the kedusha you will not find anywhere else in chutz laaretz (with the possible exception of Lakewood.) Klal Yisroel are all one. I am surprised you can’t feel the achdus of many in one.
The holding between the chupa and yichud room is because it shows that the husband is taking possession of his wife. The same people who have this shitta are usually the same people who are very strict in keeping tznius issues. Touching or showing affection to your wife in front of other people, whether at the chasuna or elsewhere is clearly and obviously assur. Pictures aren’t an outright issur, but if the couple are touching in the picture (and I agree it should never have been taken unless perhaps they used an automated/timer camera with no one else seeing them at the time), it wouldn’t be tzniusdik to display such a photo in public.
ramateshkolian, Au contraire. I believe its the opposite. In town where you have gedolim, tzadikim, batei medrashim, roshei yeshiva’s, etc. all over the kedusha spills over to the populace. Since it is so common to dress like a Yid, no one is embarrassed to look like a real Jew. And when you see your neighbors dress up, rather than down, it encourages you too to do so. OTOH, out of town (which I think may have an even greater OTD percentage; you see it more in town because there are so many more Yidden in town) in many towns (NOT all out of town, towns) the whole town is on a lower madreiga and they don’t have who to look up to to improve their matziv.