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There actually are intelligent things to be said on this subject.
It’s a shame that people would apparently rather go straight to calling their fellow Jews “animals”, “despicable”, “evil people”, etc.
And then seamlessly shift into a complaint about sinas chinam, of course.
I can’t resist repeating one particularly pertinent quote:
“A bunch of blogging borderline personality disorders fabricating things all day.”
Yom Yerushalayim is very different than Yom HaAtzamut in that YA primarily celebrates the establishment of the political entity of the State of Israel, while Yom Yerushalayim primarily celebrates our return to our Eretz Yisroel in general and Yerushalayim in particular. I do not think that the former is cause for celebration, but I do think that the latter is.
One can be anti-Zionist and still appreciate EY.
DaMoshe, shame on you for casting such aspersions on the motivations of a Gadol bi’Yisroel. You’re better than that. You don’t have to agree to everything that the Satmar Rebbe said, but at the very least give him the benefit of the doubt that he meant what he said and said what he meant.
Miraculous or not, I do think that the mass return of Jews to Yerushalayim is a good thing.
I think it’s a good thing that Jews can now daven freely the Kosel, Kever Rochel, and the Maoras Ha’machpela,.
I think it’s a good thing that the Jewish population in Yerushalayim is the biggest its been in thousands of years, if not all of history.
Kein yirbu.
SL:
RY,Avi – I don’t get why you are throwing around those comments? Her feelings are very personal and deep, if you don’t think they are founded, why make jokes about them? Posters throwing in comments about horse and buggy and parchment is just disrespectful to her question and feelings on this. Nobody doesn’t know what type of technology she is referring to and nobody thinks she is talking about ink and parchment.+1
Kindly stop writing silly comments about things that are clearly not the subject of this discussion.We cannot hide our heads in the sand about the very real spiritual dangers posed by unfiltered internet access.
Now, how to realistically combat one’s exposure to spiritually harmful material will differ greatly depending on one’s exact circumstances. I’d say this is as good of a time as any to follow the Mishnah in Pirkei Avos: Asay licha Rav.
The torah allows a number of punishments including stoning for a variety of “crimes’ (putting aside whether or not we have a Sanhedrim)
To set the record straight, the Torah does not “allow” stoning. In certain cases the Torah *mandates* stoning for the violation of certain cardinal laws with eidim, hasrah, and the Sanhedrin. And conversely, if any of those criteria are not fulfilled, the Torah *prohibits* stoning.
In no case is stoning a reshus, left to one’s own preferences.
GH:
all the empirical studies that have been done, including those of the heimish tzibur here in the U.S. and Chareidi tzibur in EY, the divorce rates are materially higher for those who marry in the 16-19 ageJoseph:
That’s factually incorrect. The frum communities with the lowest marriage age averages also have the lowest divorce rates.Can either one of you cite which studies you got these supposed facts from?
How do you pronounce DemonCrat?
Why would you do such thing?
…and WI-Fi
zdad:
The Chofetz Chaim would learn by Candlight , even when electricity was an option.I never heard that before. Where’d you hear/see that?
At first, I found the moji invasion a bit much.
But now they’re growing on me 😉
We actually do not have a cholent slow-cooker; my wife makes cholent on the blech. But I think that is somewhat rare.
Anybody surprised that mod-29 approved of this “parody”, instead of bashing it as “mocking” and “leitzanus”?
Yet another double standard.
I didn’t know there as a mod-105 either… I would say welcome to the CR, but it’s kinda like welcoming a customer welcoming a new sales rep to their own store.
Throwing confetti is a pretty standard way of celebrating. Not sure if that needs to be called a minhag.
Is dancing by a chasunah a minhag that needs a source? Or just a standard way of celebrating things?
Mod-29, for a while you’ve been assuming the worst about me and my posts, but you’ve really jumped the gun this time.
Mocking? I was not mocking anybody. Frankly, I am quite offended that at the charge (not that I think you care). Just because you believe that a particular point is “important, relevant and necessary” does not justify you using your moderator pulpit to denigrate those who argue with that said point.
The point I was trying to make was:
There is no chiyuv to use tofu, carrots, and whole grains in one’s cholent.
There is chiyuv not to endanger one’s life.GH was trying to emphasize the importance of staying healthy. But she fell into the very same trap that she just pointed out – namely, “layering churmra on chumra” to the point that what she is advocating is simply not realistic for most people, and if anything, may make people think that eating healthy is not something that is attainable.
gadolhadorah:
consider substituting a firm tofu for about half the meat you would ordinarily use and trim the fat from the real meat you do use. Also consider adding some whole grains and carrots for some of the beans and potatoes. Finally, there are some excellent salt substitutes that add real flavor but don’t adversely affect your blood pressure. There is NO chiyuv do use unhealthy ingredients in you chulent nor must you use meat so be creative if you want to enhance your physical well being aka “ushamartem es nafshosechem”When you layer chumrah on chumrah, at some point you discourage those who want to comply with the spirit of staying healthy, (and ultimately for many other mitzvos)< from making the effort since it seems so difficult or hopeless from their initial perspective. Yes, being compliant with mitzvos was not meant to be “easy” but nor was it brought down by chazal that we should use every opportunity to make it more difficult than otherwise necessary.
Religious Zionists celebrate it as a recognition of Divine intervention.
Then why celebrate when the war began? Celebrate when it was won.
It’s pushed off to prevent chillul Shabbos. Yom Hazikaron was supposed to be Motzei Shabbos/Sunday, but they were worried that that could lead to Chillul Shabbos due to the preparations for Yom Hazikaron which start a few hours beforehand
That’s a nice gesture. Not sure how much actual chillul Shabbos it will prevent, seeing as those who would desecrate Shabbos to prepare for Yom Hazikaron probably won’t be keeping Shabbos anyways, but still a nice gesture, much like closing down the bus service on Shabbos.
yehudayona:
It would be ironic if some shuls were saying selichos while others were saying Hallel.I think somebody here once mentioned that in YU, they can sometimes end up doing both on the same day.
WTP:
Chazal did not feel it necessary to change Lag B’omer if it falls out on Sun, so it is very curious why the Rabbanut should feel that they know better.First of all, Chazal did not say Lag bi’omer had to be celebrated with a bonfire in Meron. That’s a relatively recent development, which I believe is attributed to the Arizal.
Secondly, Lag bi’omer should not be celebrated during the night at all. The Rema explains that we observe 33 days of mourning, and on the 33rd we say mikzas ha’yom ki’kulo, and the mourning of the night counts for the whole day. So all relevant halachos pertaining to music, etc, must be observed Lag bi’omer night. The Shulchan Aruch goes further and says all relevant halachos must be observed the whole day.
It could have been another date- say the date of the UN vote on the partition plan- now that was a miracle! – or the date of the truce “ending” the War of Independence. 5 Iyar was actually not such a happy day- all the surrounding Arab countries declared war, threatening to destroy the new state, many people – soldiers and civilians- were killed in the war that officially started that day. Am Yisroel’s deliverance did not come on 5 Iyar, it was a political moment that was chosen because it marked Israel’s independence, not its salvation.
Fully agree. If a day should be celebrated, it should be when the war was won, not when the war began.
Wow, I don’t think I’ve ever seen zdad open up a troll thread before.
Is is it really not 5 iyar this year? I have to fast again tomorrow?! ;P
But seriously, why is it pushed off?
Converting to Judaism is not for everybody. There’s alot of rules that we are required to keep, and it’s not easy. One should not consider converting to Judaism unless they really think they have what it takes to keep all of the rules all of the time.
RY23:
Quit trying to deny pure facts. It is also true that women live longer than men. Is that offensive? It’s just statistical truth.Most of the things that get people offended are the truth. They just may not be “the whole truth and nothing but the truth”.
Another question for Avi K:
Let’s imagine for a minute that Herzl had gotten his way and established a “Jewish State” in Uganda. Would you move to “the Jewish State of Uganda”, or to the Ottoman-controlled Palestine?
As expected, best can of worms ever.
Me & my deleted “Lack of Tzniyus is Out of Control” thread are personally insulted 😉
LU, that was excellent. I couldn’t agree more.
Methinks DovidBT has hit the nail on the head:
Is there a generally accepted definition of “Zionist”?
If one is talking about the stream of Zionism that attempts to replace Judaism with secular nationalism, then Zionism is bad.
If one is talking about the stream of Zionism that loves Eretz Yisroel because it is the land in wich we can best serve Hashem, then Zionism is good.
If one lumps all of Zionism into one big boat and insists that it must all be labeled either the absolute kefira or one of the ikkurei emunah, Zionism is something to be debated ad nausem in the coffee room.
Yeah, how about Arabic? That’s what the Chovos HaLevavos and the Rambam’s Pirush Mishnayos were written in.
HaLeiVI, this is just practice for the inevitable 5 Sivan blowup…
smerel, +1
I’m no Zionist, but to try to blame the Zionists for the Holocaust is beyond ridiculous and reprehensible.
What if the guy turned out to be a Satmar Zionist? Then she wouldn’t be able to show him kjchusid’s posts because he won’t use the internet!
What happened to the other tznius thread?
Yeah, where did “Lack of Tzniyus is out of Control” go? I don’t even see it as [closed]…
I actually started that thread as an attempt to settle what Meno brilliantly reffed to as the “unbelievable” dispute between Mod-29 and Joseph. Although I will admit that it would have at most gathered anecdotal evidence, which probably wouldn’t have swayed anybody from their firmly held beliefs…
But anyway, what did happen to it? I hadn’t checked up on it a while – did it really go so far that it was not just closed, but totally deleted?
And did anybody defend that behavior… and try to shut up anyone protesting that kind of behavior?
There are legitimate complaints to be had about Yom HaShoah (making it in Nissan, making it all about “Zionism is the answer” instead of just commemorating those who were murdered, etc).
But to accuse the Zionists of somehow being complicit in the Holocaust is ridiculous beyond words.
I could see how if the Burka women became more of a force, it could make it very difficult for someone who is involved in kiruv or in defending Orthodoxy
So? Is this how we judge what ideals we should live by- by what’s easiest to sell to the world?
Joseph & Mod-29:
OK, we get the point – you don’t believe each other. You both think that your viewpoint is so obvious, the only way somebody could disagree with it is they’re lying, perhaps even to themselves.yekke2:
Can I turn the tables for a second?Please, you don’t need my permission.
Why are you so convinced of the validity of your practice if Chazal praise Tamar for covering her face?
Because nowhere do we find that Chazal or their successors suggested that this is something that is obligatory, or even appropriate to encourage for the masses. This is a madreiga for those who are holding by it.
This is not a black (if you’ll forgive the pun) and white issue – there is a middle ground between a practice that everybody should be doing and a practice that nobody should be following.
WTP:
Mw13, I do not know if your question was asked specifically to me, or thrown out to everyone.The former.
I was not expressing my own opinion on the practice, just trying to help Yekke2 analyze what he was feeling
Fair enough.
Does the fact that chazal make a note of someone’s behavior as praiseworthy imply that this is something that is a lesson for everyone, or is it the opposite- the comment is made since this behavior is out of the ordinary (e.g. if this was the accepted behavior to cover one’s face than there would be no need to comment on it) and therefore not a recommended practice for the masses, even if it was appropriate for this person at his/her level.
Interesting question. I would think that the answer would lie somewhere in between those two options, and very likely varies depending on the exact case (and language Chazal used).
But either way, I think it is self-evident that something that Chazal praised should not be denigrated. So if Chazal praised Tamar for covering her face, I don’t think anybody should be denigrating the idea of wearing burqas.
No need to be obnoxious, if you’re just having a bad day no need to take it out on us.
Avi K:
Yekke, by definition someone in EY is not in galut. This is also apikorsut.So let me get this straight – despite the fact that Moshiach has not come, and that the Beis HaMikdosh has not been rebuilt, you believe that the golus is over for those who live in EY?
And you think we’re the apikorsim?
LOL
I still have yet to hear a rational argument as to why it would be a problem to wear a burqua, just a lot of “content-free outrage”.
yekke2:
the source of such ideas most probably comes from the wrong placeLike Tamar?
וַיִּרְאֶהָ יְהוּדָה וַיַּחְשְׁבֶהָ לְזוֹנָה כִּי כִסְּתָה פָּנֶיהָ – בראשית לח, טו
סוטה דף י’ עמוד א’ – משום דכסתה פניה חשבה לזונה? א”ר אלעזר, שכסתה פניה בבית חמיה, דא”ר שמואל בר נחמני א”ר יוחנן כל כלה שהיא צנועה בבית חמיה זוכה ויוצאין ממנה מלכים ונביאים
We see that the fact the Tamar covered her face is considered praiseworthy by Chazal.
RY:
Burquas are forced.Source?
WTP:
at some level there is a vibe that what they are doing is superior, ergo what you are doing is inferior. They may not mean it that waySee, that’s exactly what I was referring to when I said “Personally, I’m secure enough in my own Judaism that I’m not perturbed if somebody is doing something “frummer” than I am.”
It could very well be some of that the Burqa ladies think that I am inferior to them. (Although the same could be said for any other religious practice – do you think some of the members of the settler movement consider you to be inferior to them?) But I don’t care, because I’m convinced enough of the validity of my own practices that I am unperturbed if somebody else views them as inferior or illegitimate.
WTP:
particularly disturbed when you feel that someone distorts yiddishkeitCare to explain *why* this is a distortion of yiddishkeit?
Thank you
dooksta123:
I’ve been keeping up with the Torah portions and I’m really interested in offerings at the moment… this is the first year I’m actually following along with the ParshasGood for you! Unfortunately there aren’t too many people who really go through these parshios about korbanos thoroughly. Feel free to keep crowdsourcing here, but always remember that not all information obtained on anonymous internet forums is always “the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth”…
Some excellent English resources that go through these parshios include the Artscroll Stone Chumash (and particularly the notes on the bottom) and R’ Shamshon Raphael Hirsch’s commentary on Chumash.
Best of luck, and hope to hear more from you!
This is more like it! Now GoGoGo’s randomness can be entertaining, not annoying.
Correction to <ahref=http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/tznius-gone-too-far/#post-1258370>this comment: סוטה דף י אמוד ב, not אמוד א
Which Gedolim have come out against burquas?