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Personally, I get the WSJ, the Hamodia, the Mishpacha, and occasionally the Yated (for all the juicy columns).
jakyweb:
“I cannot in all conscience present such newspapers to my innocent granddaughters as if to say, no matter how much chesed you do your face is not allowed to be seen in these newspapers.”
I don’t think that’s quite the statement that not having pictures of women sends (not that I’m for it, mind you), but I guess to each their own.
PY:
“The Modia, Yated and so on, are anti-Zionist, and often make anti-Zionist statements without giving any reason to explain what is wrong with it.”
I do not believe that the Hamodia does this at all. They specifically pride themselves on their professionalism and impartiality. Please do not lump all chaerdi publications together.
“There is nothing anti-Torah in there, and the opposite, there are many inspiring parts.”
Anti-Torah? Maybe not. Anti-Chaerdi? You better believe it.
(If you’re wondering why I said “maybe not” instead of “no, it’s because of an article I once saw in the JP in which Avi Weiss and company were decrying the way people disrespect gays… after that, I put down the JP and haven’t picked one up since. Therefore, I couldn’t in good conscience write that no, there’s nothing anti-Torah there.)
And since when does having “inspiring parts” mean that there’s nothing bad as well?
crdle: The shows themselves may not be filtered, but what websites one can visit, and hence what shows one can watch, normally are. However, by TV one can watch any one of hundreds of shows (many of them inappropriate, to say the least) with the press of a button.
“Someone that is emotionally healthy and has a good relationship with his parents will not go OTD from these images nor will he get addicted.”
That is simply not true. I personally know people who became addicted who had perfectly healthy relationships with their parents. Really, I find it disturbing when people point-blank deny the danger that technology can pose. Not everything is “the system”‘s fault. We must protect our own children from the obvious dangers.
That said, we should indeed be inculcating our children with the emunah, yiras Hashem and simchas hachayim. I personally believe that the root cause of a large part of the problems facing us today is that Judaism has become a mindless lifestyle to many, instead of a set of deeply held ideals. And if one regards Judaism as a lifestyle, can he/she be blamed for wanting to trade it in for an easier one, with less restrictions and duties? We have to bring the intellectual and the emotional parts of Judaism back into play, not just the physical actions. As R’ Wolbe explains in Ali Shor, the physical acts of Yiddishkeit should an outpouring of the convictions of the mind and the feelings of the soul.
Of course we should have gratitude to the IDF. But that doesn’t necessarily mean we must make a mishabeirach for them. When’s the last time we made a mishabeirach for the American army? If they were to suddenly cease to exist, many jews would suffer as well. And if you say that’s different because they’re not jewish, how about Hatzalah? Or Shomrim?
Taking this a step further, why not just make a general mishabeirach for those who put their lives on line for the klal, and not just the IDF? That would include the jewish members of the US army, the Shomrim members recently risked their lives, etc. Why must we only have gratitude to the IDF?
so right: Thanks, and vi’chain li’mar!
popa_bar_abba: Yes, they are monsters. It may not be their fault, it may have been something that happened to them when they were, etc, etc. But they’re still monsters, and we still have to protect our kids from them.
charliehall: Perhaps those covering up are doing so because they do not think adequate proof has been brought to prove that the person in question is indeed a molester?
I would like to preface my comment by stating that I personally think that proven molesters should be run out of town by whatever means is necessary. We must protect our children from these sick monsters.
That said, there is another, equally horrifying scenario we must consider before any action is taken: An innocent man, rejected and degraded by his community, his job lost, his and his family’s reputation gone, his family in shambles. This has also happened far too many times, and my heart bleeds for these people, too.
thinking jew:
“I know from them personally that they have very extreme rules which no other chassidus has and which most other Gedolim strongly disagree with”
Seeing as you can’t seem to name even one of these supposed extreme minhagim, I find it hard to take your accusations too seriously…
apushatayid, Wolf, and Sacrilege: It’s nice to see some sanity here…
mdd: I really don’t think this is the best thing to talk about on an open forum… or just about anywhere, for that matter.
squeak: Again, I believe the internet is normally filtered, so it is harmless, while TV is normally not (is it even possible to filter TV?), which would make it harmful.
GAW: The meeting and dating may have been assur, but the marriage still wasn’t.
“Mod, that assumes there is not one single clean thing relating to TV or movies. Which is fine if you want to take that route, but then owning a computer that allows you to watch TV shows or movies, is a defacto “TV” or “dvd player.””
The internet is often filtered and controlled, whereas TV is usually not.
Really, why does it bother some people so much that others are makpid on thenselves beyond what is required by halacha? What could possibly be wrong with that?
anonymisss: I wouldn’t be surprised if there was. However, that doesn’t mean we should treat those who are more makpid than us with any less respect.
Wow, a (fairly) calm, intellectual discussion on learning vs working. I’m pleasantly surprised.
whatrutalkingabt: Excellent points, couldn’t agree more.
BPT:
“All I ask in return is that the learning camp start treating the working camp with the same respect and admiration. We do our share of the avodas hashem too.”
What makes you think that those of us from “the learning camp” don’t have respect for those who work?
“in 20 years or so, none of our Kollel families will be able to encourage their sons to sit and learn, because there will be no frum people earning enough money in the previous generation (due to their insistence on not becoming educated in a decent profession), to support the learning of the next generation. Then, they will realize the ramifications of their short-sighted approach to learning but not earning.”
Yes, because Hashem can’t make sure we have what to eat, right? We have to do it ourselves. Do those short-sighted frummies really think that Hashem runs the world?! Sheesh, these extremists…
I’m pretty sure it’s assur. But as always, all halacha li’maseh shailos should be asked to your LOR, not to anonymous CRers that may or may not have a clue what they’re talking about.
“For reasons of Sholom Bayis or even better hygiene – why not?”
If it’s assur, its assur regardless. If it’s muttar, there’s no need for these reasons. I’m not sure what difference these justifications should make (or, for that matter, what hygiene issue there is with chest hair).
“And if women have a mustache or chin hair, are they committing the aveira of beged ish if they likewise remove that hair?”
No, its beged isha for a man precisely because women do it. If something is assur because of beged ish/isha to one gender, by definition it’s muttar (as least beged ish(a) wise) to the other.
I have heard in the name of R’ Avigdor Miller that it is a chillul Hashem for a jew to vote for a candidate that is pro gay rights, killing babies, etc. And regardless of whether or not RAM did indeed say this, it’s still a point worth thinking about.
“I would rather fight to maintain the purity of the poor little kids who are affected by this, than to rail against gay marriage.”
So would I, but why are the two mutually exclusive?
an idea: “Does the torah forbid mishkav zachor for goyim? “
I can’t say for certain that the Torah does explicitly forbid it (but I’m certainly not ruling it out). However, in this week’s parsha Sodom was razed to the ground for, among other reasons, mishkav zachor. That certainly seems to show that the Hashem doesn’t quite love goyim having mishkav zachor …
About looking for a girl with good brothers:
I think that the primary reason for this was to judge the approximate intelligence of the genetic material a boy is choosing for his children. Until not too long ago women had little to no schooling, and it was difficult to tell how smart they were. Therefore, the only intelligence gauge was to see how well her brothers learn.
I find it slightly disturbing that so many here question whether or not somebody is genuine simply because they disagree with them… I have never seen anything that would suggest that mosherose is baiting anybody, and I have no reason to think this is the case.
I would define a ben Torah as somebody who lives his lfe in accordance with the Halacha, works on his middos, and learns as much is he is able to.
“To those who believe that the gedolim can and do make halachik decisions in a vacuum, relying on some mystical powers to achieve an immutable position: Let this answer be a proof that gedolim DO require input from this world.”
100% correct. However, that does not mean we can simply assume that the Gedolim were misinformed whenever we don’t like their psak.
popa_bar_abba:
“Like learning Torah, and supporting the world?”
You hit the nail on the head. Somebody who learns for several years owes no debts to society – society is indebted to him.
I too have heard from well-placed sources that although Sternberg/Mogeb Av/Heller are under new ownership, they will remain under their respective head counselors and head staff. In other words, there is a new owner, but the same people will be running the same camps.
mischiefmaker:
I think the discussion here has shifted from the actual question of if girls should or shouldn’t drive to what reasons there are that would prevent girls from driving. I would imagine that the vast majority of people here would have no problem having their daughters learn to drive.
Wow, what a story.
These are extraordinarily serious shailos, and need to be asked to a prominent poysek. However, if there’s really nobody you feel comfortable asking, with the mods approval we can exchange email addresses and I’ll try putting you in contact (anonymously, if you perfer) with the most prominent poysek I can get a hold of.
As for your issues with shidduchim, I believe Oorah’s Rebbitzens program offers some help in that area (although I could be wrong). Does anybody here know how to contact them?
mdd: Could you be more specific?
jay11691: When we refer to an Apikores here, we are referring to somebody who denies one of the 13 ani maamans. There is a mitzva to hate such an individual. The Chazon Ish holds there are no apikorsim today: however, he agrees that if there were there would be a mitzva to hate them.
oomis1105:
“Don’t hate the sinner, but rather the sin.”
In most cases, correct. However, there is a mitzva to hate an apikores.
an idea:
“If it would be a tznius issue it wouldn’t change after marriage.
Yeah, I never got that either… The only thing I can think of is that they’re machmir like this shitah when they can, but when they’re married it’s just too difficult. (Kinda like those who only carry in an eruv if there’s something they really need to move (like a kid).)
Pashuteh Yid”
“But don’t get me started on the topic of women drivers. Whenever I see one, I know my trip will now take 3 times as long. There is something about how they dart into a street in front of you like a cowboy (although they seem to be looking carefully, they invariably miss your presence, and that you have right of way), but as soon as they do this daredevil act of getting onto your street almost hitting you in the process, they begin driving 15 MPH below the speed limit, and are totally unaware that they are impeding traffic. Oy vey, don’t get me started.”
Maybe that’s the reason Chassidim don’t let their girls drive… 😉
No seriously, I heard it in halacha shiur.
I know I have heard some poskim (well-respected if I’m not mistaken but I don’t remember who) do hold it’s a problem. I think it had something to do with an woman’s arms being uncovered by turning the wheel… or something like that. However, this is obviously not the accepted norm in most communities.
pascha bchochma:
What I said may be very nice, but it is not always the case. “Ohavi Hashem sinoo ra” “those who love Hashem hate evil”. If something is truly evil (apikorsus, amalaik, etc), we must hate it. (Which was kinda the point I was trying to make.) The rest of the time we can and must fight our enemies, but it should be done without hate.
The following has brought to you by from the Main Page (MP?) by YWN Radio:
(Tuesday, October 5th, 2010)
Carl Paladino, the Republican nominee for governor, drew criticism from Democrats Tuesday for calling the Democratic leader of the State Assembly a criminal.
He then accused Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver of stifling legislation that would presumably hurt his legal practice, Weitz and Luxenberg.
Paladino previously compared Silver to the antichrist and said the speaker deserves to paraded in a Roman cage on his way to the Attica Correctional Facility.
Cuomo said state ethics laws are weak, but affirmed that Paladino should show evidence before accusing Silver of breaking the law.
[Silver is]
Neither Cuomo nor Koch are close allies of Silver, making their defense of him particularly striking.
Doesn’t sound like the kind of guy I want running NY…
Pashuteh Yid”
“Having a police department is in my view no contradiction to menschlachkeit.”
Of course it is. However, I don’t see how that’s war or hatred (unless you have a police department like those in South America… ;))
oomis1105:
Fine, that answers why war would be necessary, but why hate? If the whole reason we’d be going out to war is to preserve menschlichkeit, we would have to kill people, but we still wouldn’t have to hate them.
Why shouldn’t they?
rebdoniel: What’s wrong with giving the Gemora for the 60 jewish students?
“That being said maybe it wasnt the right place for you (mw13) to come in and quote that particular Gemara”
I didn’t quote this Gemora! Ben Torah did! Everybody take it up with him!
pascha bchochma:
“Why would you point that out here? A thread by someone who obviously cares about halacha?”
I did not bring this up, Ben Torah did.
“But what happened here was not constructive at all. Bringing up the issue of the churban when we are trying to serve Hashem b’simcha, takes away our simcha shel mitzva, our joy in doing the right thing, even though it’s not easy to sleep on our back or do many of the things suggested, we do it in order to serve Hashem. Believe me, a woman who will not put on makeup on a three-day yom tov, is not wearing makeup just to look good – she’s wearing it because she needs it.”
Ditto.
“You just don’t see why what you’re doing is wrong, that you are claiming women are responsible for the churban, do you.”
I never “claimed women are responsible for the churban”, I was quoted a Gemora that says one of the reasons for the churban was that women were wearing too much cosmetics.
And no, I don’t see “why what I’m doing is wrong”.
“We do not claim that you are even though you are inappropriately criticizing a nonexistent event in a thread that was started to enable us to follow halacha.”
Huh? What “nonexistent event” am I “inappropriately criticizing”?
“Kabel et ha’emet mimi she’amro – work on your bain adam lachaveiro and don’t jump at every chance to blame others.”
Whoa.
1) I’m not the one who brought this up.
2) In my book, quoting a Gemora is hardly “jumping at every chance to blame others”.
“I don’t have a gemarakup and don’t know how to explain to you why what happened here showed a major problem in our society”
“major problem in our society”?! From quoting a Gemora?
“but please try to understand why so many girls who post here, are saying essentially the same thing and have the same feelings.”
I do understand that people are getting rather worked up here. However, I think this primarily due to some miscommunications that have come up. Therefore, I would like to clear up the following point:
Nobody is suggesting the Churban was the solely caused by women. That would be absurd. Women wearing too much cosmetics is only one of many reasons brought down by many other Gemoros (including sinas chinom, shelo borcha ba’Torah tichila, along with many others) for the Churban. Everybody is at fault here.
“Calling something apikorsus just emphasized this sense that you are ready to jump on anything to blame women”
Excuse me, I did not call anybody an Apikores. Talk about nonexistent events…
“We don’t believe that everything posted on the CR is true even if you wish we would.”
Neither do I. However, until I get a chance to look up this Gemora the only thing we know about it is what Ben Torah has told us.
oomis1105:
“Why do you find it so disturbing that when a comment is made such as why the churban happened for a reason other than what I was taught my entire life (and it sounds like a comment made by someone who does not like women too much), that I would ask for a verifiable written source that I can ask my Rov about?”
First of all, I’m not sure why you keep on mentioning “the churban happened for a reason other than what I was taught my entire life”. Now you know it. What diffrence does it make if you didn’t before?
Second, I take issue with you labeling an Amora who said one of the reasons for the churban was something women did as “someone who does not like women too much”. Seeing as women are about 50% of the population, something of the tragic magnitude of the churban would probably be at least partially their fault, no?
“I would ask for a verifiable written source that I can ask my Rov about”
What do you mean? The post that quoted this Gemora clearly gave a source for it (Shabbos 62b). By all means ask your Rav about it.
“Does the Gemarah al Pi Hashem state the cosmetics issue as the reason, or was it the opinion of an Amora? There is a difference between saying Hashem said so, and a flesh and blood person THINKING it so.”
And if it’s just an Amora saying this you wouldn’t except it?
“Don’t you also think that if this is in fact true (and I take your word for it that it is in the Gemarah, just like the story of Kimchis, btw, which is not halacha), that with ALL the tznius things that girls are being taught in BY, that they might have wanted to impress this notion on the girls, as well, so as to prevent them from using excessive cosmetics and bringing about more tzoros upon us?”
I hardly think it’s a proof something doesn’t exist just because it isn’t taught it in BY.
“Amoraim and Tanaim disagree with each other all throughout the Gemarah.”
True. However, we have no reason to assume there is any disagreement here.
“Who is erva for a woman, her brother, father…? I am not a pervert! LOL.”
If a woman is not married and hasn’t gone to the mikva, she’s a nidah and an erva to anybody and everybody. And if she is married, she’s an eishes ish and an erva to everybody except her husband.
“You are the one who suggested that menschlachkeit is not the be all and end all of yiddishkeit above, because of your kashya from the Akeida. These are your words”
It appears that you have misunderstood my question. My problem wasn’t in the “You’re saying that menschlichkeit wasn’t the be all and end all of the Torah then,”, rather in the “but is now”? In other words, why would it have changed?
“All I am saying is that after the Akeida, the RBSH made it clear that he does not want child sacrifices, and now all he wants is kindness.”
No, the RBSH made it clear that we must be willing to override any sense of kindness to do His will.
“I need to think about it. I also want to look up the gemara about Elisha ben Avuya who saw someone doing kibud av and shiluach hakan, and the person died. Because of this Elisha ben Avuyah became an apikorus. Why did this make Elisha not believe in schar mitzvos? Maybe the person was thinking an apikoreseshe thought at the time and deserved to be punished. Yet the gemara, I believe, does not explain the reason for this person’s death that way. It instead says he died because schar mitzvah bhai alma leika.”
Not a rayah, the Gemora always uses an answer that applies across the board before an answer that relies upon certain conditions.
Also, another question: We know it says in Koheles “hakul zman vu’eis… eis li’sinoh… eis milchoma” “there is a time for everything… a time for hate… a time for war”. This can be seen li’maseh in the halachic chiyuv to hate an apikores, and to wipe out amaleik. If everything is menschlichkeit, what constructive purpose do hate and war serve?
“And if a person would ever be asked to do so, he would not be permitted, as it is now yehareg v’al yaavor to take the life of any person, including his child.”
Incorrect. If a person is told something through nevauh, it suspends halacha. I belive there is a case of this in Nach where a Navi (forgot which) married somebody he wasn’t allowed to al pi halacha because of a Nevauh.
“So while Avraham was asked to withhold his menschlachkeit and humanity at the Akeida, that was a one-time event, and I think that ever since, menschlachkeit is the ikar.”
Huh? You’re saying that menschlichkeit wasn’t the be all and end all of the Torah then, but is now? Please explain.
matziv chapper: Whoever suggested it wasn’t?
popa_bar_abba:
Why, what’s wrong with those reasons?
btw, it’s getting a little ridiculous that you’re insisting that every reason given so far is not a good one, but you won’t say what you think a good answer is.
“In general you will get a more “right wing” answer from the YWN Coffeeroom and a more “moderate” answer from your LOR. At least that has been my own personal experience.”
What does that have to do with this anything? This thread was opened questioning whether the terminology we use in certain cases is correct, not whether the CR is too right-wing or not.
And besides, as Helpful has shown, experiences vary.
That just shows that the black minority card trumps the woman minority card, not that your coworkers are sexist.
“It doesnt make you frum to have your head buried in the sand, you have to know whats going on.”
Another great quote. Didn’t we used to have a whole thread for this?
Sacrilege:
“I just dont particularly enjoy being blamed for the worlds ills ;)”
Very few people do.
“But come on, when was the last time there was an asifa lambasting men for coming late/talking in shul or bittul torah/zman or going places they shouldnt.”
I don’t know, I don’t keep up with asifos. That said, talking in shul does get a fair amount of attention, as it should.
“Did you think I was in chinuch? L-rd have mercy on the children!
I’m not. I’m in the heavily male popolated profession known as Law. I have a parent in Chinuch.”
Sorry, I sort of skimmed through that part of your comment and just picked up the word “chinuch”. My bad.
However, if you are in law I’m really suprised you get the feeling men around you think their superior. I always thought of Law as dominated by intelligent, forward-thinking people…
I was always inder the impression that a BTL helps get you into law school, and that’s about it… but I haven’t looked into it so don’t take my word for it.
Sacrilege:
“I actually do remember that when that whole “sheitel scandal” happened with the Indian hair, it was right before the Torah U’mesorah Convention and since I have a parent in Chinuch, I heard that the majority of the speeches where about how this is happening due to the lack of tznius on the part of woman….”
Well considering that women are about 50% of Klal Yisroel it makes sense that sometimes things are their fault, no? Especially when the tzara particularly affects them, as was the case with the “sheitel scandal”. (Although I suppose one could argue that it actually affects the women’s husbands more… ;))
“It happens to be whenever a tzara befalls Klal Yisroel IT IS blamed on women. Normally I dont have a problem with it, I have long accepted that we are the lesser sex (believe me in my profession, I hear it non-stop) just dont deny it when it is brought to ahead.”
In what way do people imply women “are the lesser sex”? I’m not denying they do, seeing as I’m not in chinuch and I have no way of knowing, just curious.
WellInformedYid:
In my opinion, the most important factor in marriage is middos, and having been brought up well yourself so you know how to do it for your kids. Both of these things can be judged in a couple of dates and some homework.
popa_bar_abba:
The only purposes I can see in marriage is 1) being a supportive spouse and 2) being an effective parent. And in both these areas, good middos are key.
“somewhere in the first 200 talks”
Yeah… guess I’ll just take your word for it.
Huh? %15 of people regretting their choice of life partner cracks you up?