Suggesting that every single person who smokes is stupid, lacking middos, etc, is simply idiotic. There are plenty of wonderful, caring people who just made a mistake at some point in their lives (often during their teenage years) and are still suffering from it. And there are plenty of boys who smoke, yet would make wonderful husbands and fathers. Pass them up at your own risk.

takish mamish:

“Wouldn’t anyone want to marry someone a lil more stable than that?!”

Smoking is a chemical addiction, and has nothing to do with a “stable” a person is. A smoker can be the most stable person in the world, and a non-smoker can be completely unstable.

“There’s a huge misconception in “chilul Hashem”. Honoring Hashem means doing His Mitzvos/commandments. Neglecting any is a chillul Hashem, new-age definitions notwithstanding.”

Couldn’t agree more.

mdd:

“I know the mekoros”

Care to share them with us?

BUBBLE:

I don’t think anybody here is suggesting that one should, as a matter of principle, be rude to non-jews; only that when dealing with members of the opposite gender it pays to err to the side of caution.

“Learning any language in which a Torah essay has been written is certainly of inherent value!”

Learning a language to be able to understand Torah written in that language is definitely a good idea. All I was saying is that one can’t prove from the fact that the Sanhedrin had to know many languages that we should know many languages.

Also, if the only reason one is learning a language is to learn Torah written in that language, he only needs to learn how to understand the language, not how to express himself in it.

“whats wrong with plain email? facebook is not for a frum person imo.”

Honestly, I don’t see how facebook is that much worse than email. Just facebook is newer does not mean it is “not for a frum person”.

Also, does this thread have anything to do with the new YWN facebook page?

I completely agree with tomim tihye. I don’t think it’s fair to assume that somebody thinks that “If the victims were irreligious or even if they were observant but nisht fun unzerrer (not from our circle) their loss was of no great import[ance]” just because they asked what kind of jews the Fogels were.

shlishi:

“if a boy and girl, who never met each other, were “pen pals” and wrote platonic letters to each other every day, would that be okay? can he/she excuse it with the excuse that maybe the pen pal is not being honest about his/her gender?”

No, that would definitely not be a good idea. However, I think that this situation is different because A) it is in a public forum and B) there are moderators here that will remove any inappropriate comments.

Homeowner

“I’m still waiting for the name of the rav who approved of this action”

And I’m still wating for a Rav who disproved of this action.

Didn’t you just say it?

“please give me suggestions on how to ‘teach myself’ how to learn.”

Practice, practice, practice. Then when you’re done, practice some more. I don’t think there are any real shortcuts.

“What would you do??? (Other than ask a shaila which I already did :-P)”

Umm… wait for an answer?

Daas Yochid:

“There is absolute right and wrong in this world – it’s called the Torah.”

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

zahavasdad:

“Like anywhere in NYC, that isnt Borough Park”

Yup.

zahavasdad:

“If seeing a Woman wearing pants is an averira, Most people would be sinning every time they walk the streets.”

Or, of course, they could just not look. But yes, lichatchila one should not walk in a place where he knows there will be inappropriately dressed women if he can avoid it.

apushatayid:

There is nothing wrong with looking at a cross. Therefore, nothing would be accomplished by smashing it.

mamashtakah:

“Good – so after these kids are arrested and convicted, they can request glatt kosher food while they sit in prison.”

Not sure exactly what you’re trying to say here…

lesschumras:

“If I know you are doing somrtjing that I can find halachic sources to prove it is wrong, I can spray paint your house?”

The two simply cannot be compared. First of all, the poster hung up clearly affected all that passed by and saw it; it wasn’t that the bochrim just “knew they were doing something wrong”.

Secondly, the bochrim only spray painted the offending images in order that people should not look at them. Spray painting somebody’s house would be the equivalent of these bochrim spray painting an entire H&M outlet to protest the poster.

oomis1105:

“We do not have the right to vandalize.”

No, we do not have the legal right to vandalize. We may, however, have the halachic right to. Then it’s a just a question of what you put more by, the American law or the Torah.

“This is not a Jewish State or even a Jewish City under Jewish rule.”

I don’t care. Something can be illegal, and yet be the right thing to do. We follow the halacha everywhere, anytime, no matter what.

zahavasdad:

For a man to see a woman dressed not tzniyus is most definitely an aveira.

Joseph, I don’t care how many usernames you’ve got, you still only get one vote…

I think we should set a deadline for the votes to come in (say, by exactly one week from when this topic was started) then count them up and see the results.

s2021:

“Its the norm in my world”

Where do I sign up?

I’m with truth be told on this one. Being frum can never be “too expensive”, even if it costs us our lives.

To those upset about the cost of tuition, do you have any ideas on how to make it cheaper?

First of all, the OP mentioned nothing about kollel (as has been pointed out). I’m not sure what it’s doing in this conversation at all.

Secondly, I flatly do not believe the claim that “This is widespread”. I do not believe that it is “widespread” for children to demand down payments on their homes from the parents. Nor do I believe that it is common that “When you speak to the married children they whine, when you dont speak to them, they say you never call because you dont care”. I simply don’t believe this is the case.

I keep seeing what these bochrim did being referred to as a chillul Hashem. I cannot see how anybody can say this. These bochrim got rid of a non-tzniyus picture, and stopped it from causing others to do aveiros. They got rid of something that we all agree should not have been there. Something we all agree Hashem does not want there (or anywhere). They stood up for the honor of Hashem. And they showed that we, as frum jews, will always stand up when Hashem and His Torah are disrespected. That’s the quintessential kiddush Hashem in my book.

For all those screaming “dinah di’malchusa dina”, this only applies when the law of the land does not contradict either the letter or the spirit of our Law. Would anybody suggest that if somebody managed to legally put a massive advertisement of naked woman in the middle of BP (or any jewish community), we would have to just let it hang there? No, we would rip it down at all costs!

However, I would like to point out that I do believe kanoi-type actions should only be taken as a last resort. If it was possible to get this picture taken down in a more polite way (ie, talk to the manager) that is what should have been done.

Thanks, msseeker.

I feel like I missed something here. We’re already hearing the personal tone (which normally doesn’t happen till around the third page), yet I still don’t see an actual argument here! Anybody care to enlighten me?

GumBall:

“lololololololol”

Laugh out loud out loud out loud out loud out loud out loud out loud?

yid.period:

No apology is necessary, things can get pretty confusing in a chat room like this.

“I could get all gemara-ey on you and say there’s no way you really meant that because otherwise you would’ve answered that above when I first brought up styles of dress…. but I won’t.”

Or it could just be that I didn’t have the time or patience to respond to everything you wrote… but then since you didn’t say that, I don’t need to answer you anyway 🙂

Grandmaster:

Only one compliment? Can I get one from some of your other usernames also? 🙂

“We weren’t discussing the modern world we were discussing “MO,” modern orthodox, which fits into your categorization of the “Yeshiva world” but was excluded in previous posts; glad you’ve come around.”

Nope, we’re definitely not communicating. Guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

Also, when I said modern culture, I was particularly referring to the entertainment of the modern culture. Their movies, TV, music, etc. Nowhere did I say we should wear clothes completely free of secular influence.

Copied from a previous thread on this topic:

Music is an expression of the deepest feelings and attitudes of the composer. Now, often goyish music will have a neutral, or even positive attitude; however, all too often it conveys prust, animalistic feelings and attitudes. This is not an attitude that any Jew should be exposing his or her soul to.

dunno:

“More than once I’ve heard guys say things on Purim that they wouldn’t have dared to say had they been sober. Think before getting drunk!”

I’m not sure how thinking beforehand would help anything. No matter how hard you think, alcohol still (wait for it…) lowers one’s inhibitions.