R’ Moshe writes that a woman being a Mashgiach for a kashrus organization is a problem of serarah, unless she only acts as the eyes of the Mashgiach and does not enforce the rules herself (and even then, it’s possible that that would only be good enough in the bedieved case R’ Moshe was dealing with). It’s hard for me to see how being a Rabbi or Rebbi should be any better.

But if you give a woman flowers then it’s not going to be clutter because the flowers are going to die soon anyway. And she doesn’t have to force herself to eat some to prove to you that she appreciates the gift.

Then give her dandelions.

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/quotes-2#post-609609

Yosi7:

Rav Dovid Feinstein has said on many occasions that Rav Moshe held handshaking was muttar but didn’t write in a teshuva because he didnt want to be attacked for another Kula. (he was already attacked for many others).

I’m going to have to see a source for that before I even consider believing it. R’ Moshe was known for stating what he believed to be the truth regardless of what other people might think of his position or of him personally.

SL:

I have noticed both you and yekke, at least twice, twisting the points around a bit in the fashion of – yes, blue is correct, so we are both agreeing with blue and red, lovely – and I don’t.

I don’t think it was quite like that – we were asking you *if* you agree that _________, not just assuming that you did.

I would like to request leave this conversation without being accused of walking out… i try to stick to a “policy” that if I can’t make my point understood after a few tries, it is best to call it a draw.

Fair enough – I hereby do not accuse you of walking out 😉

Pretty big if…

yekke2:

I knew this would happen. This thread would become one arguing the not-relevant-to-the-thread various controversial halachas used in the examples rather than focusing on the thread.

+1. People get sidetracked very easily.

SL:

Its right back to the drawing board, one defending the need to be kind despite halacha, and one defending the need not to be concerned about being kind because of the halacha.

Funny thing is, I don’t think most people have any truly significant difference of opinions. Most people here do believe in unquestioning observance of the Halacha, and most people here do believe in doing things nicely even when they are mandated by Halacha.

I believe both the Aruch HaShulchan and the Igros Moshe hold li’maaseh like this Rambam.

I fully agree with the sentiments expressed in the OP. Too often people shoehorn their preconceived notions and ideals into the words of the Torah and Chazal, instead of approaching them with a blank slate and an earnest eagerness to know what the Torah and Chazal really want from us.

Or, in the words of Justice Antoin Scalia:

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/quotes-2#post-608956

Intellectual honesty goes a long way towards preventing the distortion and perversion of text in order to support preconceived notions.

(Disclaimer: Lest this post be misinterpreted as an attack on anyone or anything, I hereby declare that this comment is only referring to the narrow point raised in the OP, and not to any other topic or persons; please do not misconstrue it as such.)

Good luck with you’re bar study!

As in the study of bars?

Metal or alcoholic?

Health:

DY -“The rav’s cheshbon might be that they’re better off in his shul talking, where he can perhxos have a positive influence on them in other areas, than on the streets, or forming their own minyan with no guidance whatsoever.”

Most Krumme Cheshbon I’ve ever heard!

I envy your sheltered life 😉

But seriously, take a chill pill… every sentence you write doesn’t have to contain an insult and end with an exclamation mark in order for you to get your point across.

Honestly, if I was in your situation I probably would say/write something. But will it actually help? Probably not.

But then again, writing to the Rov definitely has more of a chance of it rectifying the situation than writing on the CR does (and it’s more therepurtic too;).

I think the M”B (?”? ???? ??”? ?”? ??) indicates that altought one should not do hidur in a mitzva in order to get a segulah, it would still work unless ????? ???????.

But feel free to check it out yourself:

http://beta.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14164&st=&pgnum=79

http://beta.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14164&st=&pgnum=80

Think that’s bad? Check this one out:

Is There Another Holocaust on The Horizon?

By Batya Medad

Unlike many of my peers of Jewish Ashkenaz-European background, I wasn’t raised with any Holocaust awareness, stories, survivors etc. You can stress the “awareness,” because I knew absolutely nothing about targeted Jewish death/murder in Europe during World War Two until the Diary of Anne Frankgot a lot of publicity when made into a movie in the late 1950’s and after that the Eichmann capture and Trial at around the same time. There may have been some earlier mentions in Hebrew School, but I did not feel particularly connected.

Last week, just before Passover, when I was sitting shiva for my father, many of the comforters who came to the shiva were surprised that my paternal grandfather’s family, the Spiegelman’s of Neshelsk/Nasielsk, Poland had moved lock, stock and barrel to New York well before Hitler had taken over Germany. My father and his two siblings had grown up with two sets of grandparents, also his mother’s parents and most of his aunts (and families) had left Rogotshov, Belarus, well before the Holocaust, and lots of cousins on both sides.

So many other Jewish families are plagued and haunted by stories of grandparents, great-grandparents who refused to read the writing on the wall, were opposed to Zionism and even refused the precious visas that their relatives had gotten for them to facilitate moving away from Europe. They refused to recognize the dangers that were sprouting around them. There had to be some GD given wisdom in my great-grandparents to have made the decision to leave.

Deja vu… Today, when I read the news I see that the future will only get worse for Jews all over the world. It is so obvious to me. The “best” universities in the United States delegitimize the State of Israel, support BDS and Arab terrorism against us, and that includes me personally and all my family and friends. Nobody today is surprised when yet another antisemitic/anti-Israel statement comes of the United Nations and other international and foreign bodies. We all shrug our shoulders; so, what else is new? We’ve lost the ability to be shocked at the antipathy that Isrel suffers from all the time all over the world. Another Israeli official is threatened by a foreign country with a lawsuit for alleged terror? Big deal, not the first time.

We shouldn’t let these things roll off like liquid on teflon. We should be fighting it and World Jewry should be on their way home to the HolyLand!!

MAKE ALIYAH NOW BEFORE IT’S TOO LATE!!

…than we are pages apart. maybe even chapters.

Yes, that is quite probable.

(BTW, I never intended to call you LW; that phrase was you incidentally, as I have explained. I do not know you or your positions, so I’m not going to be pigeonholing them.)

Have a good night.