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“The Bard” is sort of a fancy nickname
For William Shakespear of literary fame
What it means I don’t know, to my great shame
But I hope my rhymes don’t sound too lame
These silly rhymes make me laugh too hard
In the nine days we should really be on guard
We’re supposed to, you know, be fartzaared
Methinks you protest too much, said the Bard
Some “chumras” mentioned here are neither ??? ???? ????? ?? nor OCD but just plain meshugasin. I didn’t mean those.
“Don’t confuse chumras with OCD. “
“OCD = Obsessive Chumra Definitions
The two are one and the same.”
Wrong. Chumras are ??? ???? ????? ??. OCD is a mental illness.
Ms. Critique, agreed. A chassidishe teacher was asked by her student why “Litvishe meigen alles”. The teacher put her lesson aside and gave a long answer, saying, among other things, “One thing I can tell you, girls. The Vilna Gaon’s rebitzin did NOT wear a denim skirt with a red T-shirt.”
“msseeker: If you think it’s only “MO” teens texting on shabbos you really need to get your head out of the sand.”
The report said it’s “not exclusively MO”. IOW it’s mostly MO, and that’s just the tip of the iceberg in the MO community. According to statistics, “Twenty percent of chilonim [in Israel, I think]
At this rate it’s a matter of a generation or two until MO goes the way of Conservative and Reform (while the RWMO will flee to the frum). It’s simple. Our rebelious teens mostly become MO. Rebelious MO teens have nothing to become except shkotzim r”l. When MO stop lecturing us frummies and bashmutzing us for our failures instead of addressing your own problems and trying to learn somthing from our tremendous successes, I’ll stop throwing it in your faces.
“msseeker: Because orthodox and frum are two different things. I see.”
Hmmm. With half of MO teens texting on Shabbos… and 60% of MO boys sleeping around in college… plus every kula you can think of… I’d be hard pressed to disagree with your observation.
Is it cooked by a Yid?
“Well, according to many the reason for the issur of electricity is that it produces a spark. I am pretty sure that when using a device like a laptop computer or cell phone, no spark is produced.
Maybe people who text on Shabbos feel this way.”
MODS, WHERE ARE YOU? Is this Yeshiva World? Can I still let my teens visit the CR?
Hey! No prying personal details. We aren’t telling where we are. -95
shlishi do you know of any MO sites? If you do, please tell me.
Simple. Just look for any Orthodox site that bashes frum people. That’s MO and that’s for you. Goodbye.
The kuntz is to do not what’s easy, but what’s appropriate. Ask yourself: Did these gruesome tzoros happen because we did/didn’t do X until now, or am I undertaking X because it’s easiest for me?
I’m in bli neder.
Being an ehrlicher yid automaticaly gets you labeled Satmar. What a great tribute to Satmar. A Sefardi Mizrachist who was converted to Satmar Rov’s shita against Zionism by the sefer ?????? ????? ????? ??? contacted the editor and asked him what he has to do to become Satmar. The man told him, “Nothing. Just be an ehrlicher yid.”
Just knowing that my husband doesn’t look at any other women is pure marital bliss.
Now don’t start us fightening.
Chassidus has in most part become a caricature of the ??? ???? ??. The definition of ?????? is ????? ????? ????, beyond the letter of the law. Chassidim also put greater emphasis on guarding the “fences” to protect Yiddishkeit (????? ?????, ????? ?????, ?? ???? ?????), as well as ???? ????, ????? ?’ ????? and ???? ?????. Rebbe-worship to the point of idolatry is just a gimmic to replace real chassidus. And of course there’s nothing chassidish about the couple walking down the avenue, he with shtreimel and bekeshe and she looking like a movie star.
But why are you obsessed with them?
600 Kilo Bear, what’s this obsession with criminals and NK?
You know what? I also constantly feel I have to prove myself to “them”, though I’m born and bred Chassidish. You know why? Because I’m not one of “them”. I happen to be of Poilish ancestry, not Hungarian. It’s this “us and them” mentality that you find even among the most modern, so-called “open-minded” Hungarians, NOT necessarily among Chassidim. (If you ever read “Black Becomes a Rainbow”, where the secular, Hungarian mother of a BT mentions “We blue-blooded Hungarians”, you’ll know what I mean. My friend told me her non-Chasidish, Hungarian family was non too happy with her shidduch, because her wonderful, frum T”Ch husband is Poilish, but when her cousin married a modern doctor of Hungarian descent, the family couldn’t stop exclaiming what a “heimishe” shidduch it was.) Anyway, I tell myself, these are the ones who have weathered all the storms and have remained firm in their Yiddishkeit. This is where I want to raise my kids because their Yiras Shomayim is unparalelled anywhere in chu”l. So I made peace with their narrow-mindedness and I broaden my kids’ horizons, teaching them to appreciate all ehrliche yidden, while keeping their Yiras Shomayim intact Bez”H.
Why is it that in the Chassidishe velt the (parents of the) BOYS have to sit and wait for weeks or even months for the (parents of the) GIRLS to finally give a ‘YES’????????
WHY WHY WHY??? anyone have an answer???………
Capitalism, my friend. Supply and demand.
No, APY, don’t think you’re smarter than Shlomo Hamenech. The letz MIGHT hate you (?? ?????) but the chacham WILL love you (??????), no ifs, ands, or buts. And this is my last in this moshav leitzim.
?? ???? ?? ?? ????? ???? ???? ??????
“It is so easy to yell about tzniyus and pritzadike women.”
It is even easier to yell against tzniyus and sticking up for pritzadike women.
Not only that, but also next to these shiksas our yiddishe techter think they look like nashim tzidkanios.
“If one person eats cheeseburger that sin only affects that person.”
Wrong. He is metamei a chelek of klal Yisrael. ?? ????? ????? ?? ???. And women who dress pritzusdik, “can affect a lot of other innocent people and destroy their lives”, by being machshil our men and boys and decreasing the kedusha in our machane, about which H’ warns us that He will turn away from us r”l. Why are you people trying to push THIS under the carpet? Can anything bad come out of throwing out tank tops or cutting shaitels down to size? What are you people afraid of? Is it a stirah to pursuing pedophiles? Aderaba, both have the same shoresh: Kedushas Yisrael.
Oh yeah, let’s focus on the unmentionable horrific sins of less than 0.01% of us instead of making a cheshbon hanefesh what each one of us has to improve.
Perhaps. So let’s go digging for the reason instead of chas veshalom getting rid of our tank tops or TVs.
“I feel that there are so many other things which are more important…”
Such as…? What can be more important than ???? ????? ????? What can be more tragic than ??? ??????? WHat can be better than ?? ?’ ????? ????? ???? ??????
To those who question the emphasis on tznius (which, to the best of my knowledge, wasn’t mentioned ONCE during the levaya): This is the only sin where H’ says He will turn away from us r”l. ???? ????? ???? ??? ???? ?? ???? ??? ??? ??????.
This is the first tragedy since I joined the CR where I see so many posters feeling that H’ has turned away from us. “I’m so angry. How could He do it?” This year is also the first in my life that I’m seeing frum women and girls wearing tank tops without shame (some with beige clothing underneath!) and very long, flouncy shaitels that make them look like streetwalkers.
I’m not claiming to be H’s secretary, I’m just reading a pasuk in the Torah. There are countless cheshbonos why it had to be Leiby z”l and his family; and pritzus is, unfortunately, not the only aveira of our generation. But I feel we have reached a terribly new low this year davka in this area; not in lashon hora, not in machlokes or other aveiras, but davka in this sin where H’ warns us that He will turn away from us. We need to make a sincere cheshbon hanefesh without negios. May we be zoche to see the first part of the pasuk:
?? ?’ ????? ????? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ?????? ?????
Kol hakavod, WIY. To those who question the emphasis on tznius (which, to the best of my knowledge, wasn’t mentioned ONCE during the levaya): This is the only sin where H’ says He will turn away from us r”l. ???? ????? ???? ??? ???? ?? ???? ??? ??? ??????.
This is the first tragedy since I joined the CR where I see so many posters feeling that H’ has turned away from us. “I’m so angry. How could He do it?” This year is also the first in my life that I’m seeing frum women and girls wearing tank tops without shame (some with beige clothing underneath!) and very long, flouncy shaitels that make them look like streetwalkers.
I’m not claiming to be H’s secretary, I’m just reading a pasuk in the Torah. There are countless cheshbonos why it had to be Leiby z”l and his family; and pritzus is, unfortunately, not the only aveira of our generation. But I feel we have reached a terribly new low this year davka in this area; not in lashon hora, not in machlokes or other aveiras, but davka in this sin where H’ warns us that He will turn away from us. We need to make a sincere cheshbon hanefesh without negios. May we be zoche to see the first part of the pasuk:
?? ?’ ????? ????? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ?????? ?????.
“The Litvish have surplus girls; the Chasidim have surplus boys. Right there you have a partial solution. (Even with acknowledging the Litvish have a greater surplus.) The surplus girls will be married to the surplus boys.
Is NASI promoting this yet? Let’s move forward on this!”
I have some implementable ideas to promote this but I suggest a new thread should be started for it, as this one has become too cumbersome.
Anusim.
50%, IIRC.
“Surely many if not all these otherwise unmarriagable girls will choose a polygamous marriage rather than none at all.”
They’d sooner marry the numerous chassidishe “surplus” boys (but they wouldn’t do that either).
P.S. I know most victims keep it secret, and I agree the problem is more widespread than most people think, but I’m sure it’s LESS widespread than SOME people think.
Use it up, wear it out
Make it do, or do without.
Moscow = Muscovite
Detroit, Michigan = De toit meshigener (Yiddish)
“Most actually were/are in Rebbe or Principal positions.”
Of course, Health, because these are the ones in close proximity to kids, and in a position of authority over them. My “bet” is that the more muttar it is in a community to watch TV, videos, read secular mags etc., the higher the molestation incidence. It’s simple: ???? ????, ???? ????, ???? ???? ??????. The “outlet” soon gets boring and breeds more exciting “outlets”, i.e. infidelity, molestation, etc.
Nurse, I was talking about abuse from strangers, not family. This is a completely different problem, with completely different solutions, if there are any. Firstly, The abuser has more control over the victim than the community. Unless the victim asks for help and is willing to disrupt his/her family life, how can we stop the perp? Secondly, outing the perp will hurt the victim in shidduchim.
I personally know 2 families where molestation was going on. In 1 case the community askan begged the mother to get away and promised to help her, but she didn’t listen till it was almost too late. In the other (which I know only superficially) the mother seems to be very immature, and herself abusive. BTW Both mothers are from broken homes.
If you voted for Obama to prove you’re not racist, you’ll have to vote Republican to prove you’re not an idiot.
MY statement seems harsh? How about MG’s unsubstantiated, self-confident claim, isn’t that harsh?
I wasn’t fighting with you, Happiest, just the assumption that it’s terribly rampant. As I said, even one is too much, but exaggeration will always backfire. I commend you for broaching this painful subject and I wish you all the best.
“Rampant” and “cover-up” give the impression of being at least as bad as others, if not worse. But Minyan Gal wrote:
“Many things are just as common in the Jewish community as in the general community at large – they are just not spoken of or covered up. Drug addiction and alcoholism are very common, but you don’t often hear of it. I remember at least 20 years ago during the sermon on Yom Kippur, the Rabbi was talking about just this topic and then in a loud voice (I actually almost levitated from my seat) he said “I am sick and tired of visiting my congregants in the hospital who are there for alcoholism – the statistics would shock you.” So, why should the incidence of child abuse be any different?”
I can assure you that the fastest-growing Orthodox populations, i.e. Chassidish & Yeshivish, are not among Minyain Gal’s rabbi’s flock, so she’s welcome to preach in MO forums (where all they do is bash us frummies), not here.
Even one is too many, but to say it’s as bad as by others is false, stupid, narrow-minded, self-righteous, self-hating, and just plain disgusting. Plus it plays right into the hands of our enemies. I’ve seen such nonsense quoted by secular writers who accept it as gospel since they heard it from “insiders”.
If it’s so rampant, how come none of my kids was ever molested (b”H)? It’s not that they’re naive; I tell them every so often to stay away from strangers even if they have a long beard etc. and to tell right away if anyone touches them or tries to tell them “secrets” etc. Of all my siblings, only one brother had a sub who took boys on his lap with non too holy intentions. Of all my aquaintances who would confide in me, only two were actively molested. Both victims come from dysfunctional/broken homes, and both perps belong to the same chassidus which shall remain unnamed here but is known more for instilling Yiras Harebbe than Yiras Shomayim.
Yes, it happens, but far, far less often than in the outside world. And I’ll bet my bottom $ that the more TV, videos, shmutzy books, magazines, newspapers, the more molestation. And don’t give me that BS about shikrus among frum yidden being as prevalent as among goyim. Dr. Kelleman proves with statistics that even secular Jews are far less likely to be alcoholics than non-Jews – up to the third generation!
Those who see abuse and addictions everywhere are just as delusional as those who see it nowhere.
Getzel and Imanonov, your jokes are great! lyyb, that’s a good one, with a very deep message.
What about the skeleton in the laundry bag?
“so youre saying that there is a good and justifiable reason to categorically bar baalei teshuva and those from broken homes from being redt to otherwise mainstream people?!”
Who bars anyone from anything? Have you seen a kol koreh forbidding BTs from coming b’khal H’? It’s simple capitalism, my friend. You can’t force anyone to marry BTs if they prefer FFBs, just as you can’t force caucasian BTs to marry Black gerim, no matter how great they are. And as long as anyone can afford to be choosy, they will be.
“why cant it just be about 2 people who like each other?”
What a terrific question, especially since this approach seems to work wonderfully in the secular world. Why can’t we be like normal people? Let’s work on achieving a 50% divorce rate, ASAP!
Is it HER fault that her parents couldn’t make their marriage work?
No, Oomis. Is it ANYBODY’S fault that they’re BT, ger, blind, deaf, diabetic, epileptic, ugly, fat, divorced, widowed? Not usually. Can they expect a flawless shidduch? They can certainly hope – stranger things have happened – but shidduchim work in capitalistic fashion (supply & demand), and they (and everyone else) need to keep their expectations realistic.
BTW, I wish you’d read the whole thing, including Observanteen’s responses, before you criticized. IMO she did not at all come across as smug or condenscending, and she retracted her term “second rate”.
Oomis, sorry, I missed your story. Sounds awesome (literally). Can you share with us what your father A”h said? Thanks.
Don’t confuse chumras with OCD.