msseeker

Soliek, I’m speechless. A kiruv kerovim guy told me, “These kids are neither Yidden nor goyim. First I make them into goyim so that they can become gerim.”

Still, you’re NOT DF. Difference? CONSCIENCE. You have one and she doesn’t.

Yes. Where are the Rabbanan blamed in Gemarah?

(Pasted from Verizon)

Who would have guessed that Anti-Semitism could lurk in the allegedly autobiographical words of a young Jewish woman? But they have, in the memoir of Deborah Feldman and the stories she tells about growing up Satmar.

I don’t think that Feldman meant to create this monster, yet the intentions, for good or bad, cannot stop the destruction this creation is causing. Many in our community say we should let it slide, to ignore it because it will go away in a few weeks and is not worth giving a platform to. I vehemently disagree. I think if we don’t address this lie we are no better than Ms. Feldman because we allow a lie to spread.

If we allow a New York Times bestseller filled with half-truths, untruths and outright lies to be the uncontested representation of the truth of our lifestyle and a butchery of Halacha, we are doing ourselves a disservice of the highest proportion. The wicked Joseph Goebbels, The Nazi minister of propaganda, used to repeat Hitler’s “Big Lie,” which paraphrased over time simply says, “If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it.”

While we ignore Uncensored, and encourage those in our community to ignore it, and say, “Why don’t you let it slide into oblivion?” the big lie is repeated and repeated and repeated. Yes. Obviously even negative PR plays into the hands of such a book, because any controversy is good for book sales. But by not contesting the truth and speaking out, a larger evil grows–that of the “Big Lie.”

As of today “Unorthodox” is a New York Times best seller, and I’m not surprised. It’s a book about us, about religious Jews, with our Yarmulkes and traditional dress, our religiously protective and seemingly mysterious lifestyle. We do seem somewhat mysterious to the general population. Because they don’t know the truth, they depend on whatever crumbs of information comes their way. Many of those reading this book already think we are all extremely wealthy. They whisper all kinds of rumors about how we conduct our personal lives, what we believe, how we live–all based on the stories of a young girl who admits she hated, refused and resented everything about her faith, her people and her community. To look for her to deliver a fair and balanced perspective of Orthodox Judaism is to expect an atheist to describe Christianity.

This is not like “kosher yoshke” or another book that we might not like but which doesn’t directly impact you and I. This is a direct attack on who we are, on the Torah, and on all that we hold dear.

I do not doubt that Ms. Feldman grew up in a tremendously difficult environment. I do not contest the fact that her decisions and her perceptions in life are hers to make. We must all live with the consequences of our decisions and now it is time for her to understand how her actions have affected all Jews.

I am not attacking Ms. Feldman. I am championing truth. Look around and see how you and your family’s beautiful and kosher lifestyle are being put into the average American’s consciousness in the most degrading way. If left unchecked, that image of you will change the way practically every non-Jew you come across will perceive you. Is that what you want?

I don’t know how I ended up being the person to write this; I’m no great scholar. But someone has to step up to the plate–to take a stand. This is not the time to be reticent.

It was during the lifetime of many of us, or our parents that the first sparks of hatred against Judaism flickered in the darkness–fanned by perceptions, rumors and gossip that the Jews were a super evil and backward cult, both in Europe and in the United States. The coals of the fires of Anti-Semitism have been banked since WWII, but they have never been extinguished. Those who fanned the flames of hatred against the Jews half a century ago, can quickly fan the flames again, intentionally or not.

There are enough well written pieces and reviews about the book and how its author wrote a compelling work of fiction that we should be worried. Uncensored gives a platform to those who envision orthodox Jews with the same paintbrush that allowed the perception of Jews as evil and subhuman “untermentchen”. Last time this happened, Hitler herded into the camps and the ovens in Germany and Poland. I am not over reacting.

All mighty oaks grow from small acorns. A liberal media, and a world of readers hungry for criticism of orthodox Jews are watering the acorn this young woman has planted. The well-written and positive reviews of this book are fertilizing an idea, a perception, a fear and a hatred of Jews among nations who do not know us.

This is WHY we need to not bury our heads in the sand and wait for this to just go away. We need to come out and forcefully say, “This is not us at all.” It would be even better if Simon and Schuster sees the hullabaloo and call her bluff. If publishers could see that this book is her fictionalized anthology of every camp story she ever heard, along with some salt and pepper added for taste and shock value, perhaps they could see that she is destroying their credibility. The public trusts publishing houses to print the truth as truth and fiction as fiction.

If you and I don’t respond by saying (pick yours) “I’m not Satmar, I’m not Chassidic. I’m not Charedi. I’m not Jewish, this doesn’t talk about ME!” then let me assure you, the only mark you are making is a mark in the sand that will get washed away the next time the tide comes in.

Anti-Semitism is on the rise. The economy is bad. When people don’t have money to spread around they are forced to face the reality of their situation. They create realities for themselves based on the lies of others and of their own fears.

This book has been prepared for publication for a while. Like popcorn, these types of stories and books used to pop once in awhile, and then be forgotten about and become silent. In today’s political and economic climate, the popping is not going away.

The sounds of Anti-Semitic stories are being heard more often. The outside world is interested in these stories, and not in a positive way, but in a way they can use to justify hatred, discrimination and attacks upon our faith. With the rise of blogs in which many unhappy (or happy but bored) individuals can share their thoughts, most bloggers understand that unless they post something unusual and attention grabbing, like Ms. Feldman, their aspirations of fame will remain unmet.

They therefore blog, making sure to take a grain of truth (if that) and fabricate an entire story out of it. They then say, with a total straight face, that their fabrication is true, whether it is or not.

When these blogs do take off, the blogger is under increasing pressure to create even more content with even greater shock value. It is the shock value that keeps the readers reading, the media reporting and the comment cravings satisfied. It’s how the “Big Lie” gets spread. Say it often enough, say it in enough places, have people who are seen as credible and responsible say it on enough blogs, or on the news and have it go uncontested and pretty soon, it becomes truth to those who don’t seek the truth.

I for one, want to be seen and respected for my choices in life. How about you?

Rabbi Issamar Ginzberg

“As LessChumras said:

I don’t disagree with what you said. I just find it amusing how you and others are reacting when the shoe is on the other foot.”

It’s not amusing at all when MO posters lose the debate and start analyzing our psyches instead of addressing our arguments or conceding their points.

You did not answer why my friend who taught at a Satmar School was called a Sheygetz

Because to these insular kids he looked like a shaygetz. Shaygetz in chassidish can mean a non-frum Jew, not only a goy. Yes, the parents should have explained to them the difference between chassidish, yeshivish, MO and secular, and I do, but they didn’t. Now let’s talk about the failings of MO parents that turn out 50% teens who text on Shabbos.

“Someone is defensive. Are you also a Chassidish woman? See my post to MSSeeker. Don’t feel the need to justify yourself.”

My, what astute psychoanalysts we have here. What’s your evaluation fee? A chilul Hashem of epic proportions is being perpetrated by the vilest means, my way of life is being dragged through the mud by my fellow Jew, the MO posters here are all but applauding her, and I’m mysteriously “defensive”.

I AM Satmar and she IS lying. Satmar GIRLS get a superb English education, much better than Yiddish, and better than some more modern schools. Most graduate 12th grade, a shrinking minority 11th. The curfew is a recent takanah only in Willy to prevent unfortunate “maises”. Many Satmar women eat out regularly and most do occasionally. If she had prefaced her interview with a disclaimer that this how a stupid girl (4th grade level) from a dysfunctional Satmar home grows up, PERHAPS she would be saying the truth.

“the more Yeshivishe people are less makpid on driving laws, underage drinking etc. then more modern or not frum people.”

Right, but not because of idiotic “faith” but because we have so many priorities it’s hard to emphasize all of them. BTW underage drinking is more a Yeshivish problem, except on Purim.

[non-Hasidic]

Where did she get this idea from pre-Leiby? This is one sick maidel.

“(except for part about the Kletzky murderer being Chassidic, that was atrocious. She knows very well the murderer talked in the papers about eating Treif, etc, and we saw pics of his ex-wife, totally NOT Chassidish, far from).”

This is actually good news. Whoever looks for the truth will see her for what she is.

As a P.S. let me add my previous post, since nobody seems to have read it:

She sounds very similar to Gitty from KJ, who’s as good-looking and probably as sick as her biological dad while Mom is the craziest woman in KJ. The interviewer describes how she was sitting in his car Friday evening and they were watching fathers, grandfathers, and sons going to shul together. What an impression it must have made on him. The serenity, the kedusha, the regal beauty of the chassidishe levush, the love of fathers holding the hands of their little boys. So what did this neveila say to break the spell? “See those shtreimels? They cost $6000 a piece!” What a pathetic liar. For $1000-$1800 you can get a nice shtriemel. The most expensive ones are $4000. I’ll bet she had a lump in her throat too which she was trying to get rid of.

ZK, homerun!

The Great Bear of Creedmoor:If PBA meant it literally, you’re right.

PBA +1 again. Thanks for saving me time.

Haleivi, I couldn’t have said it better.

YT, +1. No idea what soliek wanted from your life. BTW, how are you? I have you in my tefilos every day.

Me:

“Another positive: Our dropouts come almost exclusively (I said ALMOST) from dysfunctional families.”

WC:

How is there anything positive about that? Doesn’t anyone feel any rachmonus for her at all?

Me:

My heart goes out for this confused girl and even more for her dysfunctional family; every lost soul is a terrible tragedy. But think how much worse it would be if she came from a stable family. This is “man bites dog” news, because our OTD rate is not only the lowest on the Orthodox spectrum, but our dropouts are mostly (again, I said MOSTLY) confused, abused, neglected kids, PLUS dumb, untalented ne’er-do-wells. Where are her siblings? Probably smart enough to survive their unfortunate ordeals. I haven’t heard of a single successful chassidic dropout. The most normal ones do blue-collar work, and many do teshuva. Conclusion: With very, very few exceptions, normal chassidishe kids who grow up in normal homes stay on the straight and narrow BH. We must be doing something right.

Feif, how about this:

I DO NOT WANT to be out on the streets at night.

I WANT to ride in the back of the bus.

When there are guests over, I WANT TO eat in the kitchen instead of at the table with my family.

I DO NOT WANT to drive.

And my wishes are RESPECTED. Can you wrap your narrow head around that? Well, neither can the goy who thinks YOU disrespect YOUR women (Thanks, PBA).

“the fact is the Rav zt”l was right. Chareidiut as a doctrine is a failure.”

Look who’s talking. With 50% of your youth texting on Shabbos r”l, 60% of your boys sleeping around in colleges r”l, a 3% intermarriage rate r”l, an OTD rate supplying 19% of the chilonim… HAVE YOU NO SHAME?

Thanks, Torah Yid and Toi. There’s plenty more to say but I have no time or patience to keep up this fruitless back-and-forth. Toi, you said it most eloquently in your last sentence. 😉

GAW, Kook’s kookery – being maspid Hertzel(!) – directly led to Avi’s tragicomic thinking. This makes him either a maisis, or, as Rabbi Wein (no kanoi by any stretch) describes him, “a gentle but confused soul.” Which is the best you can say about him.

Avi K, are you Orthodox? Is this really how DL/MO see Herzl? I’m appalled. I thought he was seen as a necessary evil at best. How is your twisted thinking and brazen misinterpretations of Chazal different from Reform or Conservative rationalizations?

GAW, is there a typo in your post? I can’t make heads or tails of the last sentence. I hope you didn’t mean to put Herzl or even Kook in the same league as The Bach, Bais Shammai, the Ibn Ezra, etc.

Avi K.: “80% of Am Yisrael refused to leave Egypt and died in the Plague of Darkness. Even after seeing all of the signs and wonders ten out of twelve gedolei hador opposed Zionism. Only a small number of social outcasts who had nothing to seek in Bavel joined Ezra and Nehemia’s Zioinist movement.”

So you’re comparing Moshe and Aharon, Ezra and Nechemya, to ?????? ??? ?????? HERZL? And Zionism to ??? ????! Are you out of your mind?

I hate to sound like the guy in the “How not to do Bikur Cholim” video, but the Homeopathic remedy Arnica does wonders for fractured bones. Perhaps it can also heal diseased bones or maybe you need a different remedy. It’s best to ask a good homeopath. I’ll daven harder for you.

Always, please read babygoose’s post as if I had written the same and more (if I had the time).

If you never tried therapy and he’s willing to try now, don’t break your home before you do.

“A modern guy stood in the center of the isle (with a shopping cart, kids and all) schmoozing with a friend…”

Feif, did you read this before jumping to the defense of the less frum one, as usual? How about HIM excusing himself for blocking the aisle? And what would HE (or you) say if MOC stood in the center of the isle with a shopping cart, kids and all, schmoozing with a friend? Dirty looks, nasty comments… I’ve seen them all from those “Bessere mentchen”. And really, does MOC deserve a tongue-lashing because he tried to squeeze thru without hurting anyone? How about ?????? ??? ???? ?????, ????? ???? ????, ???? ???? etc. etc. etc. – all out the window when the victim is frummer than you? Foul!