msseeker

Och un vay that it’s even a question, blinky. It’s way too long and flouncy and very far from what anyone might call eidel. No posek who was matir shaitels had this blowing-in-the-wind attention-getter in mind. I’ll bet they’re all turning in their graves the way yiddishe techter are dressing based on their rulings.

Mod: “Im always looking for the opportunity to agree with wolf”

Why?

Why is page 14 blank?

What?! I’m wasting my time on less than 100 people?! I hope some of you are in chinuch or otherwise having a significant hashpoa on klal yisroel. I’m 96, BTW, till 120.

Sorry, I meant to say someone with a more tzniusdik levush. Once you make fun of tichels or braids or thick stockings or bochurim who walk in the street with ther eyes down, you lost everything. And about looking down: Do you look down on MO? Do MO look down on Conservative Jews? Who looks down? Yes, we think a tichel or snood is better than a sheitel (otherwise we’d wear shaitels too) just as you think a shaitel is better than hair. Yes, we go by the mishna brurah’s psak that a 3 year old should dress in full tznius clothing. That doesn’t mean anyone looks down on the person. Aderaba, so many of us unfortunately look UP to those who dress less tzniusdik and try to imitate them. And don’t get me started on those who look down on the “yunchi” women and girls who dress more tzniusdik than them. Please, who looks down on whom?

Derech HaMelech, you just proved my point. “Can we let this down for the duration of the nine days so that the satan won’t have some more information to be mikatreg on us with?” Sounds like an excellent piece of advice from the satan himself. What makes you think H’ has less tzaar from pritzus than from listening to his children trying to inspire each other to improve? Please look up Yeshaye gimel, where you’ll find a list of goodies that brought the churban: eye shadow, wigs, perfume etc.

????? ?’ ??? ?? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ?????? ???? ??????? ????? ???’

WIY and Yatzmich, that’s what teachers in chassidishe schools constantly talk about. One teacher put it bluntly, “Girls, you know what a bochur’s yetzer hora is like? It’s like passing a treif restaurant after starving for three days.”

Another teacher, when asked by her student why “litvishe meigen alles”, put away her lesson for that day and spoke at length about kedusha, chukas hagoy, etc. One thing she said stuck in my mind: “This I can you, girls: the Vilna Gaon’s rebbitzin did NOT wear a denim skirt with a red T-shirt!”

And THIS, myfriend, is what we’re doing right.

Since my post was edited, I’ll illustrate my point with a vort I heard several times from a famous darshnta on ??? ???? ?? ???? ??? ??? ??????. This posuk plainly tells us that pritzus causes H’ to turn away from us r”l, yet speaking to women this rebitzin teitches it ??? ???? ?? ???? ????? … loshon hora… ??”?.

But women don’t learn Torah! In chassidish schools they teach the girls that tznius for women is like Torah for men and they constantly stress the importance and beauty of tznius.

My $0.02 re previous posts:

1. Frum women do NOT dress pritzusdik to attract men, not even subconciously, IMO. Nevertheless, they’ll have to give din vecheshbon for every look or impure thought. I don’t envy their gehenom.

2. This dor hamabul is OUR nisoyon and if we learn from the goyim it’s OUR fault.

3. Learning torah is not the only solution. It’s not even one of the solutions. Your rabbonim and rebbetzins have to come out and speak, write, and farfir about tznius just like they do in chassidishe circles, where the problem is much less severe.

The Chazon Ish paskened that a woman has no right to support her husband’s learning by selling pritzus clothing (and I can assure you he wasn’t talking about today’s pritzus).

Chanie, your posts are the epitome of leitzonus.

Nurse, where were you when Josh31 blamed the shift towards the right? Perhaps the right is doing something right. If the numbers proved that the frummer the worse, you’d kvell, I’m sure. What’s the MO OTD rate? 10% or higher? The INTERMARRIAGE rate is 3% r”l!

SJSinNYC, this is true in all communities, I believe. In ours it’s less than 1% for boys, judging by the hundreds of families I know and thousands I hear of.

thenurse: “I know someone who works with OTD teenage boys specifically from 2 very Chassidish communities. So does it exist? Yes. More than you think.”

I know. Yet it’s still way less than in more modern circles.

“Why does it matter anyway what kind of background people come from? OTD kids come from all communities.”

It matters when people say that frumkeit, chumras, etc. are a cause of going OTD. I’m convinced that the opposite is true and I’m out to prove it for kvod shomayim.

SJSinNYC: Thanks, but please include the number of students in each school/class so we can calculate the percentage. We want it to be as accurate as possible.

GITGEZUGT, You’re wrong and I’ll correct you, with the help of other coffee drinkers. In my estimation, the frummer the crowd, the less OTD kids, and I invite everyone to contend otherwise.

Those of you who finished high-school: what percentage of your classmates went OTD? And how would you label your school (Chassidish, Yeshivish, MO)? (Let’s agree that OTD means chilul shabbos and treifus r”l. A chassidish or Yeshivish “OTD” kid who watches TV is no worse than a good MO kid.)

OK, let’s begin. I went to a chassidish school the frummest you can find. OTD rate: 0%. In fact not a single girl in the entire school(s) went OTD in my day. By now there are 2 OTD kids from that school (One from a broken home, crazy mom, the other in the process of teshuvah b”H), out of THOUSANDS of graduates! OTD rate: 0.01%?

Three of my kids finished high school in the same circles, frummest in the US (or world). OTD rates: 0%

Of course several of their classmates are a little more modern than their parents (using makeup, longer shaitel, listening to radio) but that doesn’t count. One boy in one of my sons’ elementary school came from a divorced home, custodial mother’s Yiddishkeit iffy (she had friends over who watched TV on shabbos); he left school and I don’t know how he ended up, probably not OK.

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