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Did anyone else notice SBH’s beautiful respect for his parents, how he phrased his father’s “decline in ?????”? This is no accident, my friends. Respectful behavior begets respect, ?????? ????.
????? ?????. I’ll try to learn from you.
UNFILTERED internet, tzippi. And they don’t HAVE to give it all up for a shidduch, neither will they, which is why this “intermarriage” idea is brilliant but impractical. That was my point. Sorry it came out sounding bigoted to some people. Critical, judgmental, perhaps. But bigoted? I don’t think so.
Oh my goodness, Popa, what do you mean? Bigoted against whom? I really don’t think Litvishe girls will, or should, give up their lifestyle for average or “baggaged” chassidishe boys. Do I respect their clothing etc.? Absolutely not. Do I respect them as yiddishe techter, bnos melochim? Absolutely yes. I’m in awe of the ahavas hatorah, openness, ehrlichkeit and brains in the Litvishe world, but in tznius and kedusha there’s unfortunately much to be desired. If this is called bigotry, so be it. If I offended anyone, I apologize. If I only made a liberal angry by saying the truth, I don’t.
mdd, it’s about ????? ?????, as I said, not ???? per se. Therein lies the difference. This is the last I’ll say here bl”n, ????? ?????? ??? ????.
It’s all about kedusha v’tahara. And the scariest part is that we’re talking about their BEST BOYS. And this steep price for what? So that he’ll choose the best wife over the thinnest and prettiest? Fat chance (pun intended).
And how many aishes ishs does he have in his memory bank by the time he’s stuck with a fat, pregnant, moody wife?
Prost. Gemain. Forget it.
Sac, yeah, I know. And I have so many things to answer to that that wouldn’t be approved.
“Msseeker- Chassidim are also into looks to some extent. It is very important. But it’s not the main.”
Understatement of the year. The difference is HUGE. Can you imagine a good chassidishe boy talking “grob” about sizes and looks like the litvishe bnei torah here?
“It won’t work with the Litvish world because they are so into chemistry chemistry chemistry.”
And looks looks looks. ??? ??? ???? ????? ??? ???? ?’ ??? ?????.
Sac,
Most chassidim dont expect fireworks to go off the minute they marry the person. At the same time by sheva brochos 5, you want to FEEL something. And we do. B/C this is human nature.
Eclipse, I’m amazed at your astuteness. It’s rare for an outsider to grasp the “insides” of Chassidus and Chassidim with such clarity.
“I think Ill go the way of MOQ.”
Like I did. I told you you’re next!
Eclipse, I did not mean you ch”v and I did not mean davka this comment from WIY. For you I have nothing but empathy and gratefulness for sharing your insight. I meant the general attitude here and on every other Orthodox website I know.
Listen to R. Miller’s Yiddish tapes.
Hencha is most probaby derived from Chana (Chana = Hanna = Hancha (Polish diminutive) = Hencha). I’d name her Chana.
Eclipse, you made me LOL, literally. You have a great sense of humor.
Arc, thanks for your free psychoanalysis and for reminding me why it’s such a waste of time to post anything here. I was comparing Wolf’s NAIVETTE to that of German Jewry in 1937, not the events of course. Get that? Wolf doesn’t realize that an anti-frum show (or book etc.) will sell like hot bagels, no matter the content, quality, or integrity, and I expressed my hopes that his naivette doesn’t evaporate by seeing this “court case” turn into a blockbuster ch”v.
No, I wasn’t trying to insult you ch”v. You’re as naive as the German Jews in 1937. I hope you won’t be disabused of your naivette in a nasty way.
Wolf, you’re probably wrong – and unbelievably naive.
Does anybody know this couple? Isn’t it possible that they’re fraudsters posing as frum Jews to bolter ratings? Ridiculing Orthodox Jews always works.
WIY, I think so. It seems like an old song from the times of forced conscription.
Correction:
in a vinkele shteit
a yid un veint
vayl zein kint
in milchama geit
un de treren vi vasser gissen
er shteit un er beit
tzu zein tatte in himel
tatte tatte
tatte tatte
mir haben shoin genug dorch gemacht
mir haben shoin genug dorch gemacht
Kol hakavod, Mod! See what a productive, useful and interesting discussion we can have.
It was bashert because you’re destined to marry someone who doesn’t care about that “crime” and/or not destined to marry someone who does. ???? ??????? ??? ???????. ??’ ???? ????.
IOW, Wolf, why did you ask only me to back up my claim? Why not the OP? Why the double standard? See why we can’t get along? It’s the same reason why Israel can’t get along with the world. As the saying goes, we’re the Jews’ Jews.
Sorry, I have only anecdotal evidence, but I heard recently rebetzin Tz. Heller confirmed this. I tried a couple times to start a poll here, but only the RW posters responded with the numbers of their OTD classmates being 0-1% (yes, chassidish 0% or almost 0%, Yeshivish a little higher, confirming my theory), while LW posters started whining that the poll is totally unnecessary and divisive. So… Since so many of you LW make the claim that more sheltered equals more OTD, I’d LOVE to see your evidence to back this up.
“Unfortuenly many of these yiddishe children go off the derech as a result.”
Shtuyot vehavalim. The more sheltered, the less OTD. (of course too sheltered can cause other problems, but OTD is not one of them.)
This is why gedolim are called ???? ????. Just as the eyes see danger before the person comes too close to it, so our gedolim see danger before the body of klal yisroel. Not listening to them is like not believing your eyes when they’re warning you of danger ahead.
Thanks again, everyone, for proving my point. You’re saving me so much time.
Oy vey. I meant to say my post was NOT about excluding MO from klal yisroel ch”v, only about moderating CR so that not every thread turns into a nitpicking contest about the most basic concepts that one side knows inside out and the other refuses to understand or respect. This only distracts us from addressing real issues intelligently and productively and chases away every sensible right winger, thus slowly turning the CR into a frum-bashing forum.
Thanks, Oomis. You couldn’t have made it clearer. It’s good for everyone here to see your attitudes spelled out.
CR is not klal yisroel. Anyway, thanks for proving my point.
As long as some people here think kollel is worse than TV, I’m afraid not.
I’m afraid metrodriver is right. Speak to the co-workers b4 believing her story.
The political conservative-liberal dispute was used as a mashal to the UO-MO squabbles here. The nimshal is so apt, it’s totally unnecessary to explain. If TYW is really Yeshivish and would like to keep it that way and raise the standards of the CR to a high level of intelligence and productivity, I invite the mods to read American Thinker, a conservative website. The mods there keep liberals’ comments to the barest minimum, so that instead of getting bogged down in endless, senselss back-and-forths with reality-challenged liberals, readers partake in the most intelligent discussions on the web. If we hadn’t wasted so much time explaining the basics of our mesorah, minhagim, chumros etc. to people who don’t want to understand, we could’ve discussed our problems unhindered by antagonistic, ridiculous arguments and we might have come up with real solutions. Let the MO create their own website where they might (but probably won’t) address their own problems instead of frum-bashing.
What a coincidence! Just last night I was wondering how long you’ll last here, moq. I’ve come to the same conclusion on Friday when realization hit me that we’re talking to LIBERALS. Gamarnu. What a waste of time. But it was worth it just to learn that there’s no grass on the other side of the fence. Dayeinu. This is the end of every (politically) conservative website that allows liberal “trolls” to hijack every conversation. The sensible ones quickly lose patience with the libs’ nonsense and cheap shots and leave one after the other. WIY, you’re next.
Liberalism is a mental disorder. (Michael Savage)
You can never get through to a liberal, because once you prove your point with irrefutable facts the lib resorts to name-calling and ridicule and you’d never stoop to his level. So you let him have the last laugh knowing that the bystanders – the smart ones – will judge your arguments on their validity. Hence, the tea party.
“Chassidim have a reputation for being involved in their own sins.”
So do Orthodox Jews in the non-Orthodox world. So do Jews in the non-Jewish world. So does Israel among the nations. If you believe our enemies, why don’t you go all the way?
“I don’t know what YU abominations you are talking about.”
Official gay dorm rooms. Transgendered tenured professor. Apikorsim teaching. 60% of MO college boys sleeping around (thanks, MOQ). YU Graduate publicly thanking his gay partner at graduation (JO). Enough to make a grown man weep.
Now you really got me going. I see it again and again, here and on other sites. First they step all over us insisting that their way is better and making fun of our “chumras”, and when we disprove them they get all mushy about ahavas yisroel and “equal righteousness”. Yeah, TV’s just as good as no TV, college’s just as good as yeshivah, pritzus is just as kosher as tznius (different standards, you know), kulos are the same as, or superior to, chumros. It’s pure chance that the UO OTD rate is in the single digits while MO is in the doubles. ?? ???? ???? ??????, in Korach’s words. It’s about time we man up, take pride in our success b”H, and tell them the truth: You’re on a slippery slope to Conservative Judaism or worse ch”v.