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Truthsharer- what a well reasoned argument. Now how can one possibly dispute that?
ROB- you disingenuously disregarded my point. Druckman was found to have forged conversions that makes him disqualified as a Dayan and disqualifies his beis din!!! It’s a simple logical point, that you and any druckman supporter ignore. Why?
As for Goren: a little background, I learned in dati Leumi yeshiva and in chevron. I spoke to old-timer chevroners, and they told me that although Goren was considered smart he was also wild. Now- you have to understand that although he had the “potential” to become a great Rav he squandered it and wasted his intellectual honesty for political gain and power.
To tell me that poskim have always been meikel when it comes to mamzeirus could be true, although “always” is decieving. How can you always be meikel when there’s a Halacha called mamzeirus? So no one will ever be a mamzeir? Poskim took all things in consideration and after applying their vast knowledge, insight and intellectual honesty ruled what they did. You use as an example Rav Moshe zt”l as “always” being meikel. So then why did he sign against Goren???? Of he’s always meikel he should’ve agreed with him!!! Answer of course being is that sometimes there’s nothing you can do and a mamzeir is a mamzeir. No one called Goren an apikores for making a mistake. They called him an apikores for blatantly disregarding Halacha.
As for datei Leumi: in all the dati Leumi yeshivas they learn “chareidi” seforim and poskim. There aren’t any dati Leumi rabbis of the caliber close to the charedi poskim and they acknowledge that as well. When there was a difficult and complex question they ALL came to Rav Elyashiv zt”l or Rav Shlomo Zalman zt”l. Rav hertzog zt”l and Rav kook zt”l and the other rabbonim quoted earlier are NOT dati Leumi. The dati Leumi population USE them for their purpose since these rabbonim didn’t write against the Mizrachi and their words could be twisted.
Continued- as for Goren, he used his own political ambitions to distort his view on Halacha in order to nullify a marriage. Something is always suspect immediately when in order to issue his ruling he had to classify the entire psak. I don’t know if you’re aware, but psakim have always been made public (certainly never classified) in order to engage in public/peer scrutiny so that the TRUTH will be made clear. Historically, the case went through a few batei dinim but was always thrown out for halachic reasons, so all of a sudden goren is the only one (!) to rule what he did. The political anger and his ostracizing is righteous since he blatantly disregarded many batei dinim, poskim, rabbonim and talmedei chachomim and was matir the mamzeirim for his own political gain and benefit. That kind of outright brazenness and disregard to Halacha was what earned him his deserved “cheirem”. Rav Moshe zt”l was also anti Goren’s ruling and scoffed at it.
Stating that Rav Moshe zt”l went out of his way to keep children legitimate is inaccurate as it connotes that chas v’shalom he disregarded Halacha to do that. Rav Moshe zt”l used his incredible insight and knowledge in order to help klal Yisrael but one must not forget that there is a Halacha called mamzeirus and if halachically you can’t get around it then ??? ??? ???? ????? ??? ??.
Rabbiofberlin- does that have some kind of connotation to the haskala movement that started in Germany? Seriously, that’s what it sounds like. You base your opinion of a halachic ruling by Rav Sherman on a google search?! If you want to intelligently argue the subject, I suggest that you read the actual psak (maybe using google translate if the Hebrew is too difficult). Rav Sherman found in a case that was brought to HIS beis din (actually the highest beis din in the rabbinate in Israel) that Druckman forged (!) conversions. Druckman signed on conversion certificates attesting that he personally converted them when in fact it was proven that at the same time he wasn’t around (druckman later admitted to that). Rav Sherman’s ruling was based (partially) on the fact that there was forgery on the part of the beis din of druckman which disqualified him and his beis din. I would also note that Rav Elyashiv zt”l was consulted all along the way by Rav Sherman while he drafted his ruling. As for Goren, it’s another discussion as I’m running out of space…