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Nevermind talking with a girl, I mean, girls talk about sportscenter? Do they have a cooking segment? 🙂
Charlie –
The question is where the line is; the Soviet Union defended innocent children by not letting their parents perform milah on them.
Where is the line? Con law is a hobby of mine, and the supreme court has been inconsistent on this issue. I mean, is suicide illegal(enforcement could be a tough one, though)?
What- don’t waste your time. Moshe’le chaps on to one source at a time, and says everything is for people “on their madrega, avadeh”. This is not going to get anywhere.
Join Overeaters Anonymous. It works. There are frum groups everywhere, but you can join a goyish one.
It’s not christian, it’s haskafahicly sound, it’s merely dealing with each person’s individual God – for us, Hashem.
You can ask any Rov who’s in the velt. It’s muttar – and it gets the job done. “Came for the vanity; stayed for the sanity”.
I am a big believer in the 12 step when dealing with any addiction, and food is none the less an addiction to cocaine to many. “More motivation” Richard Simmons style ain’t gonna help.
It’s seems like your addicted “it’s not what you’re eating, but what’s eating you”. And it seems like you’re ready to give up.
Which is great, because it means you can go to OA. You can only join if you are hopeless. OA is for hopeless people, who somehow found hope – and success.
But leave your husband out of it (sorry sacri, I say this as a husband) – join OA – and tell hubby to go learn :).
Mischief – pretty sure his concepts of dating are not yours(no matter how yeshivish you are); you needn’t worry about crossing paths.
Listen, we can’t be knights of the round table; obviously resources and sanity are limited, and not everything can an issue all the time. So we do need to pick and choose, gather victories and then fight other battles.
This is a principle of chinuch in your own home as well. Our teenagers are not robots, and picking your battles is important if you want to any influence. And not all battles can you win.
Please turn on spell check. And get a new screen name. Makes it easier to understand you.
MosheRose,
Before quoting the sixteen million different sources in Chazal , Rishonim & Achronim that say that your haskafah is destructive ( as some have started to), I think the real question is if you are married? And if you’re not, as we suspect, perhaps you should lecture us afterward?
And perhaps it’s a good question to wonder why this obsesses you?
I hope everyone else realizes that %99.9 of marriages could use more closeness, not less, as per the Torah’s haskafah.
MosheRose,
Before quoting the sixteen million different sources in Chazal , Rishonim & Achronim that say that your haskafah is destructive ( as some have started to), I think the real question is if you are married? And if you’re not, as we suspect, perhaps you should lecture us afterward?
And perhaps it’s a good question to wonder why this obsesses you?
I hope everyone else realizes that %99.9 of marriages could use more closeness, not less, as per the Torah’s haskafah.
Should –
Which Drabban is it? The Posek I spoke to was not making a snif with psik resha. Without the Chazon Ish, there is no issur. Please tell me which Drabban it would fall under?
( Psik Reisha D’Lo Nicha Ley is a machlokes Rishonim (if it’s d’orasayah) and we pasken that it is a snif. )
Takeh, the Yekkis still do a chuppas tallis (it’s a beautiful minhag) – that is , have the chosson kallah were the tallis together, or merely use it as a chuppah? ????? ????? ?? ???? (Rus)
Nu, we’re not perfect.
Maybe we need a Chafetz Chaim V’Nismartem Meod Ess Nafsosechem foundation. And while we’re at, starting eating healthier & stopping cooking with so much fat! And exercise a little! Half hour, three times a week min. ! Too many Alamonos from this stupid cancer stick (B”H smoking by women never real took in the frum community).
I IYH will not let my daughter go out with a smoker, even a social smoker, no matter how fine a Ben Torah he is. Cold turkey isn’t happening, but the more it’s looked down on, the less “yeshivish” it becomes, the less of our youth will start.
This is takeh an area we need to grow in. (R’ Schach said the hardest thing he ever did was quit smoking).
Shouldnt, I was hoping for a better source then a chabad article (hint hint – the Chazon Ish.) 🙂
The ChazOn Ish says that completing a circuit is binyan. A single, unified device.
However, many poskim do not rule like the Chazon Ish; hence permitting usage of LED lights and the like, and electricity which does not involve sparks ( most do). But electricty unto itself, save for the Chazon Ish of Binyan which most poskim disagree with (R’ Moshe, R’ Shlomo Zalman ).
I recently spoke to a renowned Posek about opening a freezer (not dealing with the motor issue) and causing the LED lights to go on; he too permitted it.
Fluorescent lights, as well, would be permitted – but they have a sparker, hence certainly making them Aish. But the lights themselves would seem to be permitted (save for the Chazon Ish).
Practically, this has little application, as most electrical & motor appliances involve sparks at some point, and certainly in a D’Orayasah one would be wary of the words of the Chazon Ish, but I wanted to play Devil’s Advocate.
cont.
You may disagree all you like, and I will respect that and respond to it as best as I can, and admit when and if I am wrong – as I have done numerous times on other threads.
But you veer to the silly personal attack side, which means you are merely emotionally attached to your opinion but lack the reasoning to defend it – we do not have anything to discuss. I speak reasoning. You speak insults. Perhaps others would like to trade them with you.
Why can’t you use electricity on shabbos (w/o sparks)?
Helpful – by Badatz Shearis Yisrael; they are a respected Beis Din & Hasgocha in Bney Brak, relied on by almost everyone. It was founded by R’ Schach z”tl.
Also, R’ Yisrael Belsky and many American Rabbonim disagreed with the entire psak, even if the hair was from an Indian temple.
As far as that specific Race – the Rabbonim of Lakewood made the decision to disagree with R’ Malkiel & R’ Aharon Leib , which they are perfectly entitled to do. Respectful, even passionate debate is fine. But they – are Talmidey Chachamim; they possess Daas Torah. Daas Torah may argue on Daas Torah. They have creds.
And not listening to Daas Torah is a nisayon we all have; screaming from the rooftops (and on TV) is a whole new category.
And health, to quote a certain intelligent frum politician, I will not join you in the gutter either. If your direction at this point are personal attacks, I don’t think we have more to discuss. Which is convenient, hence you can chalk up a victory when facts fail you.
But, as Yehudah Levin has learned the hard, ultimately, you just end looking silly, and the intelligent calm people end up making decisions that effect our lives, and you end up on TV.
Cheers!
This is l’toeles. A man has publicly spoken words in the name of the Torah, we wish to say that these are not the words of the Torah, and should not be listened to, nor should others vote based on his words, nor listen to his views, nor see them as consistent as daas Torah. That his words are destructive, and people should not listen to him, and think that Gedoley Yisrael – were fooled (R’ Yakov Perlow, R’ Moshe Wolfson, R’ Aharon Leib Shteinmann).
I wish to reaffirm real Daas Torah, and not Daas Baaley Baatim which he espouses.
It is necessary and important. It is obviously Toeles. One cannot be mevazeh Gedoley Yisrael and expect others to be silent about it under the guise of lashon hara. The internet is an important forum, as yeshiva world has proved again and again by influencing significant elections via it’s viewers
And others are trying to defend him, which is certainly permitted.
Morever, everything he has said and done is b’apey telasah (The machlokes Rishonim is only in front on three people , but in front of thousands all agree).
If your own Haskafah doesn’t like it, you don’t need to take part. But please, before you accuse others of an issur (which your curiously retracted) perhaps base it in Halacha.
R’ Aharon Leib hasn’t touched his beard for fifty years on shabbos.
The way it was presented on the Shearis list was that R’ Elyashiv ruled that the avodah zara hair was indeed forbidden, but none of our hair ultimately comes from avodah zara. My wife’s shaitel – thankfully – was on the list, and it’s life was sparred.
As far as concerts, I would certainly not attend. I lost A good $150 when the Fried/Maimi Boy choir concert was banned – my wife very much wanted to go. But Daas Torah is Daas Torah.
You really need to ask a Rav; it is a Machlokes of Modern Day Poskim, and we certainly cannot decide for you. Some believe that the hot plate is a normal method of cooking.
Health-
If you saying things because of Neiyus, you are no Gadol. Shalom, perhaps. But again, that a rather convienient mechanism to escape anything a Gadol said.
Ben Torah-
By Shaitel’s, the psak was quietly retracted after the real metzius was known; Shearis Yisrael made a list which included almost every brand of shaitel that had never seen the indeed of a Temple.
And again, did Levin call R’ Aharon Lieb? Did he try to find out what he said or knew? The access is there, certainly he’s nudnick enough to do it. Nope. He was sure of his position, and if R’ Aharon Lieb disagreed, duh, he was misled. Which of course is disrespectful to say about R’ Malkiel (you may respectfully disagree with R’ Malkiel; but you may not say that he intentionally misled R’ Aharon Leib). He wasn’t asking anyone.
Is there a problem with the process from Daas Torah to the public, very often it’s used as a mechanism to listen to Daas Baaley Batim.
Health-
If you saying things because of Neiyus, you are no Gadol. Shalom, perhaps. But again, that a rather convienient mechanism to escape anything a Gadol said.
Ben Torah-
By Shaitel’s, the psak was quietly retracted after the real metzius was known; Shearis Yisrael made a list which included almost every brand of shaitel that had never seen the indeed of a Temple.
And again, did Levin call R’ Aharon Lieb? Did he try to find out what he said or knew? The access is there, certainly he’s nudnick enough to do it. Nope. He was sure of his position, and if R’ Aharon Lieb disagreed, duh, he was misled. Which of course is disrespectful to say about R’ Malkiel (you may respectfully disagree with R’ Malkiel; but you may not say that he intentionally misled R’ Aharon Leib). He wasn’t asking anyone.
He doesn’t care what R’ Aharon Leib says; the little legitimitcy he has he will lose if he speaks against him, so he make him irrelevant in a different way. At point did he consult daas torah.
Is there a problem with the process from Daas Torah to the public, very often it’s used as a mechanism to listen to Daas Baaley Batim.
HashemLoveMe-
R’ Elyashiv disagrees; he says that the level of Kavod for a Tallis is like a shirt. He says that it is not a bizayon to the tallis. It is indeed permissible. (Kovetz Teshuvos, Chelek Aleph)
The Chazon Ish writes that the true “Bas Talmid Chacham” of our age is a Bais Yakov graduate. Though there is maaleh to girl who has regulated her life according to Yeshiva sedarim since she was two.
First of all-
Indian Shaitels; the Indian Embassy sent R’ Yosef Efrati a letter that 80% of exported hair came from the temples. Though the Baaley Teshuvah from india said that narishkiet – and were right! – R’ Efrati felt the embassy was more in the know. Apparently, they lied because they thought that the Jew davka wanted the Holy Hair.
There is difference between “they got the facts wrong ” based on stated facts by Gedoley Yisrael, and saying they erred – and “it’s pashut like me, so if they disagree, obvious they got the facts wrong” – that’s just a phony way of saying “what a bunch of morons”.
Or his similar statements via puppetladino about R’ Wolfson & R’ Perlow.
I certainly would be dan lkav zechus; R’ Elyashiv was asked this exact question in Kovetz Teshuvos Chelek Aleph and writes that it is not a bizayon, based on Zaidy’s reasoning – that one would do it with one’s shirt or other garment. So yes, it is indeed in Halacha. 🙂
Practically speaking, taking into account political realities, you could probably pull this off for “older” singles (you know, girls past age two) with supervision. Pre screened, supervised, moving into standard shidduch dating – yeah, I think that would work. Maybe not in Lakewood itself -again, political realities – but it’s possible. With one parent with definetely take the sting off of it, and people may come around.
Practically, also, an open singles night is a real bad idea, for all the reasons shidduchim were invented. But to have more openness in a modest, controlled way – the only phone number you get is the shadchan’s – sounds like, well, a good idea.
I hear that. They are indeed extremely hot.
Bomb-
B’Seder Gamur, so what you are saying is that what’s his doing is pashut. I think it’s not, that it’s dangerous, and that I want Daas Torah to decide. I see think both sides. And when someone decides a serious issue without consulting the wise, I think he’s an idiot. I think he is on par with the biryonim – totally sure of what Hashem wants, and destroying Yerushalyim in the process, because they never asked the Sanhedrin.
You think it’s pashut that what he is doing and saying is right, and hence, don’t feel a need to ask Daas Torah. It’s even Pashut to be mevazeh Talmidey Chachamim who disagree.
Well, that is where we stand. That’s why I call him a crock, and you call him a Tzaddik.
Can’t give you an Elu V’Elu, but that pretty much sums it up.
Gila Manoloson’s new book about Tzinius , Feminity & Relationships is excellent “Choosing to Love” – she covers everything from negiah to frum fashion & everything in between.
One point at a time
“once again i am confused…WHAT. HAS. HE. DONE. THAT. IS. AGAINST. THE. TORAH?!? for heaven’s sake! GIVE US A CREDIBLE EXAMPLE!!!”
Tell me, is this a gray area or not? The question of – should we back a winner and have access to the Govenor’s mansion or back a loser on moral principles and have nothing – that is not a gray area? That is a question, a question effecting the lives of thousands. Who decided that for him? And if he’s wrong – and I don’t care if you say he is or isn’t, I want Daas Torah to decide! – then he is harming thousands of Jews.
Is it a question if we should make our platform single issue, and lose access to a vast number of politicians whom could help our community, but we become a pariah to them because of their liberal viewpoints – is the answer obvious? Or does it require Daas Torah?
If Cuomo gets in – could Levine ask him to help out a yid? Which isn’t a problem, because Levine only has one track of askanus – homos! – so he have to worry about other issues.
Is it a question if we should scream at press conferences and reporters, screaming over and over again how we hate the toevia community – which of course we do! we also hate amalek! but if amalek is in power, it may not be wise to scream about him! – are we hurting or helping the interest of our community? Which is the truth? I don’t know. I want a real posek to decide.
Of course the torah is clear about Toevia, and that is the emes. But is it emes to scream it from the rooftops? Is it emes to say that we have a mitzvas asey dorayasah to shatter the brains of amaleki baby? Should we make sure all the goyim know about it?
Should we call a press conference about it? Blast the new Jewish supreme court justice because she doesn’t believe in killing cute snuggly amaleki babies? Tell CNN? Endorse Adolf Hitler because he likes killing babies?
And is so obvious that he should have a goy publicly humiliate real Talmidey Chachamim – is that obvious? Or is it at least a major question of an Issur D’Orayasah?
Is it at least a question?
Who decided it?
Yehudah Levin?
Who’s he to decide anything?
The torah also says to kill cute, smiling amaleki babies, smash their brains on a rock and be joyous! The Torah commands us to wipe out the entire nation of Canaan, because they are a bad influence!
Should we call a press conference about it? Make it’s acknowledgment a prerequisite to our support?
And money is plenty important. We are struggling as yechidim and as a Khal – which is more important – declaring our point, or funding our mosdos – and remember, our entire future is our yeshivos and bais yakovs; that is Khal Yisrael. Is it so obvious that it’s not even a question?
Yes, there are real questions and issues.
So this is the litmus test when one is deciding real issues that effect our community – safekim – is HE a bearer of Daas Torah – or does he have a bearer of Daas Torah supporting him? If the answer is No…then he has no legitimacy, and we as a community need to spit him out , and make it clear – not in my name!
Artchill-
The Litmus test for askanus is if it has daas torah backing it or not. If the agudah doesn’t mean this standard, then they too are irrelevant. At least they pretend (I find it hard to believe that R’ Shmuel Kamenetsky , R’ Aharon Feldman, R’ Dovid Feinstien are lemmels who are intimidated by scary askanim. And to accuse them of such implies they are senile, drooling old men who can’t see the new reform movement R’ Gedaliah is scandalously intimidating upon them. I think that’s drivel from blogistan.)
But that’s irrelevant, we’re talking about Levine.
Incidentally, going with the Archdiocese was important; no statue of limitations would have meant digging up the dirty laundry of the last forty years, real and imagined. We need new enforcement with merciless teeth – on abusers and institution, but with a reasonable statue of limitations. But this is not my point. I don’t care what the agudah is or isn’t. What is he?
Who is he?
What are HIS creds. True, he’s not intimidating anyone, because he’s not asking. Remember, live people count, not dead ones. “If he would have been alive he would have said ….” is a cute mechanism is make sure you can do whatever you want – because “he would have agreed with me”.
And Tireh Zaideh, we going according to each generation’s daas torah; it’s the only way to deal with each generation (or ask them what they mean!). Do you have a point? Definitely. A real shaala? Yes. Can we debate it? Certainly.
And are we speaking of fancy livestyles? We’re talking about hot lunches in yeshivas, busing for Bais Yakov, vouchers for NY families with eight kids struggling under eight tuition.
And we’re also talking about backing winners, no matter who they are, so that we can actually help our community when they are in need.
A question; definitely. Obvious? Definitely not. Who makes the difficult, difficult, gut wrenching, call?
Yehudah Levine? What are his creds? Zilch.
Daas Torah does.
He doesn’t have it.
It doesn’t support him.
He speaks from his Daas Boich. V’Daas Baaleh Batim Hepech Daas Torah. And he speaks loudly. If you can’t sing well, sing loud.
Not in my name!
Right…so we agree that love comes in different ways, in different times, to different people, under different circumstances, and the cliche that love only comes after marriage…is not true.
Right, love always comes only after marriage…
which is the the posuk says that Michal loved Dovid, and it seemed like a good to her father Shaul, that she marry Dovid… and the posuk speaks before they were married – heck, even dating!…wait….maybe love comes differently to different people…hmmmm….
Rav Sternbuch is a great man, but I doubt he asked Levin to fly to Eretz Yisrael to protest. They have plenty of protesters, trust me. Perhaps Levin flew in and got involved in his favorite past time. He may have even spoken to Rav Sternbuch; does that make his positions in the least bit valid or endorsed by Daas Torah?
Something!
However, has Rav Sternbuch endorsed Yehudah Levin in any way? Something public? A letter? Stand behind his organization? Hearsay doesn’t count; Rabbonim make it very clear who speaks for them – and even then it’s complicated (Agudah/Lakewood Vaad etc.) ! Even then it’s a gesheft; here, no one has given even the smallest signature. No one! Just a rumor about Rav Sternbuch about a protest in Eretz Yisrael – about gays! Maybe he could have helped Shemiras Shabbos? Or Kiruv? What else does this guy do for Khal Yisrael – not for fundamentalist christians, Khal Yisrael ! – other then shray in their name about Toeva! Who is he? What is he?
You build credibility when you actually do other things; Ribono D’Alma Kula – have you ever heard his name involved in ANYTHING other then politics? Even the Agudah has a whole bunch of things going on other then washington. Politics! Not just politics, but his only issue – you can sell yeshivas to timbuktu, chuck ever voucher in the book – just publicly say you hate gay people and he’s yours.
Don’t you think a Gadol should make that decision – that Khal Yisrael should have a single issue? Have they? Good, let it be a machlokes – between who and who? Live people are the only ones that count. That is how Daas Torah and Halacha work. You need to be breathing to cast a vote. It’s great to quote dead gedolim, do whatever you want in their name – because, guess what, they’re dead and can’t say “oy, are you brain damaged?” as opposed to living Daas Torah.
Who gave him his ballot? Manhigus is given, never taken.
And look how he acts! Look how he talks! Al Sharpton would be embarrassed (well, maybe not)! This is a Torah leader – in the mantle of Rav! “Asasuni Kinor Sh’Managim Bo Letzim”
There is a posuk in the Torah, true. But there is Shas, Poskim, Shulchan Aruch – interpeted by the greats of the day, Where does that entire his equation?
Again, who backs him? Who says – “this man speaks the word of the Torah”? Who? And if you don’t have that behind you, you have no right to speak for Torah Jewry! Especially in his vernacular, Lo Alenu!
Now it occurs to me that perhaps I am old fashioned. Perhaps people do not care about shas & poskim through the lense of true daas torah- they want some one who “speaks the truth” – that is, the truth how they feel it in their own – shas and poskimless – boich. If that is true, then perhaps…they deserve him. V’Oy Lanu!
And yes, the “establishment” certainly must do some soul searching, because the fact that he even has the slightest maamad means we are not getting the true message out, or have strayed from our own truth.
But Yidden, if we still care about Daas Torah – which governs WHAT to say, to WHOM to say it, WHEN to say it – not “speaks from the gut” – since when it that a Torah concept? We speak from the brain! – what do we have with a man with barely even Daas – never mind Daas Torah! Speaking the truth when it is not to be spoken – is SHEKER!
Does he have the current support of a single Gadol? Any Talmid Chacham of note? Somebody? Anybody?
Is he a Talmid Chacham? Anybody ever heard a psak from him? An actual shiur about bava metziah?
What are his credentials? I don’t care what may have been said about him by people who are no longer with us.
And if he stands alone, by what credentials? Maran Rav Schach briefly stood alone – but he was one of the world’s greatest talmidey chachamim, and Rosh Yeshivah of Poneveich.
He has no legitimacy. And he destroys it, every time he stands in public. He speaks like a politician. His views are ridiculous. His tactics are childish.
This loon has his own youtube channel! Is this a leader?
Again, does anybody stand with him – TODAY? Right now, say ” Yehudah Levin speaks for me, for us?”. No one! No one!
Okie, a word about hot plates (Halacha, though V’Nishmartem trumps all)
All off the top of my head, do not be somech on l’maaseh
-R’ Moshe holds that a hotplate without any knobs has a din of kli al gabey kli, hence one could put food on it on shabbos without worrying about nirah k’mavashel. Of course, regular bishul would apply (fully cooked, no liquid). Most Poskim disagree with R’ Moshe, and require regular kli al gabey kli.
-However, many Poskim – R’ Shlomo Zalman amoung them, say that such a hotplate does not have a din of kli al gabey kli, but does have a din of garuf v’katum. Hence, once could leave food on it – before shabbos – directly on the hotplate ( but not put it on the hotplate on shabbos itself) and return it on shabbos. This also is an issue of great debate.
-The water hotplate thingy attempts to replicate kli al gabey kli by saying that you are cooking the water within, hence putting something on the blech is kli al gabey kli. R’ Elyashiv rejects this on the premise that kli al gabey kli is only when you actually plan on eating the first dish. I believe that R’ Yisrael Belsky rejects this blech as well, but I am not sure. Of course, it’s not worse then any other blech, if you put another kli on it, you could put a kli. Presumably poskim permit it’s usage, or else it wouldn’t sell. But who knows.
I am intentionally using halachic terms. Ask your LOR.
Right…um, midwest, calling the Israeli fire department – they will laugh hysterically, tell you that shabbat is a fire hazard anyway, and hangup. Either that and come down and hose you down.
Ever saw cute little Israeli kids play cops & charedim? A Water cannon is always an integral part (dumping the netilas yadayim cup on the ‘charedi’).
Never fall prey to the illusion that you are truly anonymous in web land. Too many people have fallen prey to their anonymous alter ego, only to be busted (and God, get those stupid photos off of facebook before you apply to college. sheesh. And don’t write “looking for a free crib, applying to _________” if you’re asking for scholarship…sigh…)
If it’s the classic israeli hot plate (chanan? goldline?) without a heat setting, it gets real hot, and can easily dry things out and burn them. Think 200F. Pyrex probably isn’t a good idea. You can basically cook on it.
But again, this is assuming you’ve got the standard issue.
I wish to understand.
I grew up in NY and need to take an epipen with me when I visit the big apple;
so much of everything, every is here and now and right now and is happening – the latest glatt kosher Iraqi food with a touch of portugese, the latest frum fashion that no one will even suspect you’re keeping all the rules of tzinius, the latest hock, latest gadgets that will put four million shiurim in the memory of your lexus that you will never listen to because you’re too busy fiddling with it ,trying to get your bluetooth to pick wifi…fast, fast, fast, move, move , move, cause if you don’t you’ll suddenly be weak, like, last week…Chani’s, Rivki’s , Bruchi’s, Shvigger’s, Esti’s, clothing boutique for those who the lifestyles of the rich & yeshivish…bang bang bang, like the endless rhythme of an edgar allan poe solliquiy, a never ending cacophony of the latest newest and best, of quantity and quantity, more and more and more and more…move move move…you don’t count if you have six beepers, a blackberry , a treo and iphone, all of course with mincha and zmanim…I felt like – that because everywhere was here, I was nowhere…
I guess that’s what people like about it.
I like things that run deep, not things that overflow. Things that are, not things that are trying to be.
So Tatteh, looks like we are in agreement, merely speaking about different avrechim with different masgichim.
One torments her 12 hour husband for 14, or begrudges him a sleepy day during ben hazmanim after an intense zman.
Those are the scary ones. That will destroy him – and their shalom bayis, to boot.
One would like to see him awake. Yeah, I see where they are coming from there.
But I think it’s important for the most fiery kollel to realize that their husband can have a difficult zman, and her subtle disapproval will break down, and subtle encouragement will build him up (pancakes! nothing does shachris better then pancakes! of course, by 10am they are cold & soggy…)
BP-
I’m actually tired, and would prefer just to write smug sarcastic remarks. But instead I’m going to have to write something intelligent. On your chesbon!!!
If he’s doing zilch, of course the natural balance of a home is messed up.
If he’s an intelligent Ben torah learning 10-12 hours a day, friday, shabbos and motzeh shabbos – zman and ben hazmanim has clear goals and clear accomplishments, is respected by Rebbeim and peers alike – and does his share around the house and more, and is there for his wife when she needs him (and when she doesn’t) – then even if she is the primary earner, he is the point and goal of the household. And the leader. Even if he has bad days, or discouragement. He doesn’t have to be perfect. But he needs to work -either in the office or in the beis medrash.
A guy who’s not “just learning” without review, or goals , something different every zman – but a guy who’s working to finish shas, or nashim nezikin b’iyun or yorah yorah /yadin yadin – or all of the above (Ashrey Ayin rasa zos…).
And for such a Ben torah, a Masgiach over him would be destructive. A supportive wife will make a comfortable place where he can lick his wounds and get back him gitgo again.
If he is a person that works on his himself, and tries to move forward, and leads their home forward – then he will have earned her respect and toil, and will be the man of the house.
If he’s a lazy bum, then yeah, that’s kind of sad, and everything you write is true; I’m trying to point out that merely because he is in Kollel doesn’t mean he can’t be the koach in the home. A unambitious potwasher married to a lawyer would be in the same boat.
Both should should start color coordinating their tights.
Kasha – I believe that secular law should be limited to interpersonal things (like, murder. I believe a murder should be executed on moral grounds, I believe he should be executed because he took another life and must pay with his).
I think we should be confident to the world about what our moral opinions are, but be clear about what the role of government should be. I think we should encourage a moral society, but not at a government level.
While it’s certainly horrible, I think us yidden are better off that way. I think we vote for the candidate who protects our freedom, protects Eretz Yisrael & our country and gives us money.
I think our national memory is very short of what it means to be under a government that regulates our private lives. I think we get killed that way.
And by the way, we DO have naked people roaming the street. But that’s a different thread.
But come, let us not hijack sacriledge’s thread.
Kasha – excellent, excellent, excellent and so true. A woman makes an environment for growth – but God help her if she tries to force it! It’s like trying to force a plant to grow.
A keyboard can be played with headphones; I share your frustration with Jewish music as a mode of musical expression. I personally enjoy classical music and little “real” Jewish music which is out there.
While I personally think gays are part of the destruction of any moral fabric left in America – I don’t want the goverment enforcing anything moral. Usually, goyish moral goverments end up burning us at the stake. But your honesty is refreshing; yes, we are influenced by what we hear and see.
But I again push for the musical instrument to give you musical expression – no doubt with practice others will appreciate your skills. Maybe you can splurge on a digital instrument (again , that can be played with headphones until you reach world class?).
Learn the guitar – or better, violin. Write your owns songs. Things that are real. Real music.
“hudi; I’m surprised you forgot to include a current copy of fathers bank & savings accounts. J/K, however”
Listen, guys looking for money need to avoid the guys who use US savings account at .5% ; there’s the nebachs. A healthy portfolio, well diversified equities combined with significant overseas accounts ( I’d ask the shadchan specifically for the Caymans, because Switzerland just turned tail) will avoid the tax man and hopefully produce a strong return. Remember, he’s going to support you for a long time, so think to the future.
It’s kind of like fat potential. You need to look ahead.
Oh yeah, and don’t forget um…middos…yeah, it’s the most important thing.
Guys, do your homework!
And Vaadas HaRabbanim…I’m the cynically intellectual type, God knows. But send them some cash. I got convinced after I gave them $180 for three girls who had both been on the market for some years. One was the rosh yeshiva daugther type and had been out with half of lakewood. The other was a baal teshuvah giyores funny matsav, and had had two parshios in her entire career. One was just regular. I’m not sure what they did, the Kosel Thing & yada yada yada…
They got engaged the same week. Again, I am a cynic. But I also respect results.
Worst thing that can happen will be that more people will eat in Eretz Yisrael.
You are correct, she certainly has obligations as well. I speak whimisically (and hopefully). As chazal teach us – before marriage, b’stey enayim – afterwards – b’ayin echad.
Nay, let us build healthy relationships that are not based on obligations…
Don’t me wrong, money is plenty important. Food, clothing, sanity. The level that you don’t need to constantly worry about money is important, and should be a goal. True, money comes and goes, but we certainly must make our histadlus, and a girl has every right to make sure the guy who signs here kesubah – that is, the guy who obligates himself to support her while she is bedridden with morning sickness for say, six months – can keep his end of the commitment. That is histadlus. Some may argue what histadlus is (does he davka need to be a professional, yada yada yada) but that is a question of what are the fiscal realities on the ground.
That’s not materialism; that’s intelligence. Surely, a girl may decide to give up on the right given to her by the Torah for various idealistic reasons – but the default is HE supports HER. And should stay that way. There a world of difference between materialism & histadlus.